Cooking Issues Transcript

Episode 267: Chow Bella

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adventure to the great town of Saratoga Springs who have two guests in the studio with us today we have kitchen appliance engineer the current Crown Prince of the Museum of food and drink Peter can remember that the spelling of days in the booth number of months ago

Nastassja we taped a admit it was like we were like they were like this episode for it it's new Johnnie Walker product more like okay on episode like the wind episode should go to this one as the last of Nastassja and my contractual tweet him Instagrams we will send out a a link like this not in our normal cooking issues feed to a cooking issues episode where we talked to the rare the rare Beast unfortunately in the in the spirit world but the the female Master blender which is which is awesome need more of that it.

the industry needs to a shift to a more Ginger parody situation balance balance Lions why you before it before you just start throwing your hate and your vacate why I just want you drop your drop your plug knowledge for the Museum of food and drink until the making of Tenney's American Cuisine and basically yeah you got the situation where there are you asking for money while you at least tell them they're all over eye looks like I grew up in the midwest Wright Anvil Illinois

and when we wanted to know what like I grew up eating like meatloaf in like green bean casserole that also like you know dried squid and other creams up so what do you want to go out to eat Olive Garden Chinese restaurant have something that was like in Oakland quotes I think so far to the country version of the Christmas story until you have this like to delete some of these restaurants are all around the country they're all serve it. I'll run by Chinese immigrant families they are serving a menu that I think we all know is not a lot like food in China and it's only things that we come to such a central part of American culture and situation

and it turns out there is over $100 over a hundred fifty years of history behind this Cuisine and so we're going to tell the story that with the exhibition number how many restaurants roughly that's like three times a number of McDonald's right so there's many more more Chinese restaurants in the US than Burger King McDonald's and Wendy's combined yeah of course because there's more McDonald's in any of those other ones and there's three times as many McDonald's are clearly more for granted Chinese American food even though it's weird that you have this kind of ubiquitous and kind of Monolithic Cuisine I'm not talking about like the new fancy stuff that like you know we're not talking about you're like your violins are you anything like that were talking about like old school Chinese American Cuisine

how did this happen that we have a Cuisine that is neither cooked by that those are the people who makes two people who own the Chinese restaurant the recent immigrants as you put it normally not all those symptom-free for Generations been having his shoulder more importantly but they don't cook this food at home right for their family typically typically and yet and yet unlike Italian-American Cuisine we're Italian Americans actually cook that stuff at home is it like that style of a food exist as a living home Cuisine andaz Restaurant cuz I ain't got the takeout box you have fortune cookies got sauce packets you guys like the aesthetic and

hell up in like this crazy story behind to the launch of our non brick-and-mortar based web presence is what rent can have taste things which has to be a first for us actual food bring the food back in the museum of food and drink and then don't worry and I'm going to keep his snack machines going some of the CSX sometimes it does valves are literally they're just like a little valve

thank God it wasn't the butyric acid but my point is sometimes a little bit to stop them from I should have Al's when they're going wrong make a kind of a warrant when you have a Kickstarter going for towel right now and you know when you back the campaign you get tickets to we're going to have a weekend opening for two days it's going to be on the 4th and 5th of November eating not like chow chow like I should bacon ice cream Co Ciao Bella with Lexi how something you learn if you show up at the exhibit is there used to be a

a chop suey Sunday just packed up little pieces of dried fruit on top of the ice cream and I have to say that sounds pretty good to me to bring that one back nastase what's your feelings on chewy things on your ice cream

that should we be gay like of that order but other words like I'm General like in typically for me on an ice cream I prefer things that like pop and break rather than things they chew what about what about like 10 or like Southeast Asian ice desserts I can deal I can do something like that or like for instance like chewy ice cream B I like it I like it I like it I enjoy having them but I'm never like hey you know I'm going to go out and get right now you know what really fix me up right now that I'm sorry sorry 5 and 1/2 grapefruit I really people out there I really really want what I really really like

you ever wake up in the morning like I need grapefruit I don't have to do like this like it's like it's not violently

like nauseating the way that a bad pistachio is but when you by the way the way I eat my food so I don't do that like you know I don't do that like American 50s thing cutting and a half as if I peel them and eat them but like my point is is that like there's something very

but you're so disappointing about a bad grapefruit the one where she's just thin there's no sweetness all acid slightly bitter too much pets to so disappointing to the ones that are not like to see when they get dry my God oh my God you can see that the segments kind of break apart and used to look at it and you're so sad for you paid 2 bucks for that thing and you know you're really smart person right I hope we're all reasonably smart people so when you pick up the grapefruit you you're picking one that's not too spongy right I mean me to look up bearing in mind that you know whether it's a California or a Florida grapefruit so you know what the fundamental skin thickness should be you trying to help the fruit itself to see whether or not it contains enough water and make that judgment you make that judgment when you get home and when you still have garbage like with all the thinking and a $2 later it's just so disappointing I hate it

how to spell deceit how not the Italian way and our daughter you can get tickets to the private opening of the exhibition and they will be there I'll be there will be exactly and we'll have some fun surprises people there and then you get membership to the museum and you get to help us out with Building light show so yeah go to tell if I don't work so I'm now you can just be hate-filled Emperor Peter going to hear on that always only talk to each other in Emperor Palpatine voice if you feel it if you feel it later in the show you can you can do it

so I'm just here to support cooking issues on the show you what are you working on anything that you can talk about many many many many men wish death upon me to bring is a call in your appliance design related questions to Joseph Caskey

color you are

I just sent the recipe

prepare to cram it's basically a homemade chocolate pudding recipe without using a sous-vide machine

4 a.m. time and temp to do it sous-vide because why would comes out great just standing there and staring for at least 20 minutes is it just a more than a pain in front of me because it's on the computer but most of those set custard's are in the 80s range Celsius like chili friends dance like when I'm doing so it depends on how much stuff you have in it right like it all depends on the size ratio but socially it's very liquidy that you don't want to sit like a creme anglaise I'll do it like 82 Celsius but that not only be for like 15 minutes and if you would rock that that way for an hour it wouldn't quite set but I'll be close to said no but you're going to have a much higher egg ratio probably in in in your custard and so I would guess my guess is you're going to want to be somewhere around 85c and if it's in a small Ramekin

situation I'm assuming when you mean sous-vide mean like in a Combi oven like in a Ramekin by the way I here I here I think Cuisinart makes a countertop steam oven now that is correct and I hear it's pretty good it's great how do you know so if you had one of those temperature of a pot of crime and I would hit it and 85 C range and depending on how thick it is usually I'm doing them in relatively thin ramekins I would probably go on the order of a half hour to 40 minutes but Jodi actually W done that recipe in one of those Evans I have not maybe we can find out a recipe and get back to you you know John Day Oregon formerly of please don't tell the bar has one of those Cuisinart ovens and he was going off on how it was that you know they the greatest thing that's ever happened to him you know what the MSRP on those things is roughly

150 a sheep sheep it's my best guess on the side like a coffee maker how do you put the water into it it just comes with the amount of water yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah sure anyway I hope

second question

a pork roast with

pork and cranberry sous vide and the first try and made that it I didn't buy it use enough salt and it just wasn't really really tasty and also didn't pray about it

the second try I used it was clearly too much salt but I also around the heck out of it before I put it in the bag and it got that Porky taste like we wasn't working and not are you vacuuming it or you zip locking it

cuz I would usually that Porky taste usually is a fat breakdown oxidation kind of a situation so I would have assumed that a vacuum bag would take care of that unless how do you say how do you how do you brown it well I just I just I haven't had my baking still talk to my grill for forever so I just got that as hot as it was getting hit it for the major sides that's unusual I would guess usually what's considered not Pleasant Animal flavors come from fat oxidation and typically I mean I

can you get a hard back on it cuz hard vacuum has any sort of stuff on this happening like how are the cranberry can you pre cook The Cranberries or using dried cranberries

I thought your to vacuum vacuum the down for that and then I open it up brush whatever thought was with on the outside with best sword

and I'm grounded in a fresh bag with the pork and cranberries know how they make those dry cranberries they squish the cranberry juice out of them and then they use the skins and then they mix the skins with a boatload of sugar

I love you I'm just like saying like that's how they make them that's always curious yeah

really work for several recipes week week we cook with genius these guys took what is fundamentally a by-product and they turned it into something that I know I enjoy eating my kids enjoy eating that's even rarer you don't I mean and I think they say they are

even if you were actually by the way like I've never tried to eat one of my Christmas strings before but like. Read one of your Christmas trains when you were a kid to do the cranberries and popcorn nastassia did you cranberries and popcorn your kid never never never Cranberries the stuff when is left over is like worse than work on a 90 weight the point is is that the dried Skins are good because they don't get all big and nasty and what are your guys thoughts on inflated raisins and stews to and then I was like oh raisins I understand what a raisin is and then it came out as a half grape it wasn't like fully a grape anymore but it wasn't a reason any more of it, and so like my whole life

I would like to just likes like strictly speaking they taste good and so alike anyway. I guess that's like I feel like that's in the stassi's whole life I never like chocolate milk because in elementary school being spilled like everywhere on the lunchroom table and being grossed out by that and I know it wasn't my fault and you still remember that to this day huh in the lunch tray like nasty I can remember riding round pool I can remember buying into a cream filled donut that was moldy and that I wasn't able to eat cream filling for almost a decade. I was very small but I still remember I remember where I was I was I was in the waiting room next to the truck full of nuts at the hundred 68th Street Columbia Presbyterian Hospital Weill might wear my mom had gotten you something to eat while she was going to go do something for her internship

and I remember sitting at this freaking chair at 168th Street and fighting into this freaking moldy is horrifying I can remember my mom crying parsnip chips upstairs for some holiday and I I was violently ill at the time and associating the smell of frying parsnips with throwing up and I still to this day like a lot of veg trypsin like man. Thanks I think you like they taste good but it's still got that kind of violent association with him again this is Miss. His whole life though like she'll associate whole cities with hanging out with a person she didn't like there's a billion times a billion if she met one of you and had a bad time you're all pure all painted with the same brush as stats

just now that the things that have existed before then as well in the parking is my assumption is that you maybe you had a piece of pork with more fat it was already slightly oxidized before it went into the bag I have also done stocks and sometimes they come out more or less Porky but I don't know whether it's having to do with the actual

characteristics of the meat that went in I think you're you're protecting it as well as you can by backing it you want to chill it and back it as soon as you can I mean what I typically do what I used to do when I wanted to back something right after his see her down was I would put the I would sear it throw it into a bag and then immersed that bag unsealed and ice water at a chill down the meat and then I would then you can see it really quickly other thing is is you might want to consider

I mean if it's a recurring thing that's clearly just you're getting some sort of reaction we're just the initial C R maybe this year is at maybe even though I hate to say it's too high a temperature gauge small flavors from it you could do it on on Sirius going to have to put a hard Cedar on afterwards when you do it that way you know you're not going to get any oxidation from the initial C R down so typically remember especially for things like feast or things like short ribs at which is Beast recommend Never Say Never to see her beforehand is duck breast never never should have a price beforehand because it said you needed to stay flat so that you can crisp it up in the pan later but

I would I would say always here afterwards always sore afterwards creature on Two And you get more flavor of it actually in the meets true I'm a firm believer in that because but the thing is is that maybe this maybe this year which cut of pork with it I haven't done a lot of whole bone-in shoulder I've done some but I'm doing them I was doing those things mainly more like

like a imitating like a pulled pork confit of just salted like not like heavy seared because I would leave skin on and then crisp the skin afterwards so is that more like or Immortal Kalua Pig kind of a presentation of the shoulder so I haven't had a lot where I do like a hard c r all the way around it might be that just a long storage in the bag is with that initial C R is is causing it to happen you know I used to do this anymore I used to when I was I would trim all all the meat that I was going to finally have is my portion and then I would roast all the trim just roast the hell out of all the trim and then throw the trim in the bag to get the transfer of brown trim pre-cooked flavor into the meat as it was going on on Long Cooks but as I get older I get lazier so I'm planning to do this recipe for like forty 51st and party so I'm trying to make it as streamlined as possible

is that it can stand a good bit of Chris peeing on the on the eye you're serving it whole or your Shred-it you what are you doing you're going to pull the pieces of skin on when I'm planning to do is get skin on cook it whole Brown and whole and then and then shredded cheese shredded bits mixed in with the rest of the pool mate easier I would just get your salt levels right and then I would especially if you're going to have the skin on it cuz the Skin's going to pull and get all walking have a lot of fat there and there's a lot of fat there that is relatively soft and prone to oxidation in the skin side of the skin there so I would

I would cook it whole without searing it and then I would pull it and I would do a hard c r at the Finish because that's going to crisp up the cracklings you need a certain amount of time afterwards even if you pre sear do you need a certain amount of time to quit the crackling up on the outside that you're going to shred into it and you might be a more predictable so I can even if it's in effect where sometimes you see her before handing you and you get the pork he tastes and sometimes you don't if it's okay if it's a piece of meat specific kind of a situation you can't predict it beforehand the worst thing is to have it not tasted what you want when you pull it out of the bag do you want I'm saying so just do one more without it and then try like a slightly slower like like render crisps ear on the on the pullout

almost like Siri for insurance

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Ellie and earlier regarding my saying that I don't like sweet tea cuz I think I don't like sweet tea and I mean okay says working on perfecting my cocktail I'll update you on how it's going pretty soon might shoot today refers to something to Dave said on the show while discussing sweet tea he said I hate that stuff

Dave I understand you have years experience in food and Technology I know your pilot must be outstanding at least Mine by your knowledge is obviously a man's but how can I child of North Carolina who buy wait has consumed or sweet tea than flour and water combined trust you I'm just curious what your issue with sweet tea is do you dislike cold tea is it to Sweet have you had a better glass that turns you off on it what about cocktails what flavor in meat marinades occasionally I get it there's bad sweet tea but please help me change your mind I'll do whatever I can all the best Andrew alright here's what I don't like and do it like I have no problem with cold I like cold tea with a modicum of sugar I think the issue is is that like let's say I was going to North Carolina BBQ joint Easton of course because I don't put tomato in my in my for whatever anyway but the stuff

I enjoy the most enjoyable North Carolina Barbecue which is a course pork and of course within sauce vinegar base I enjoy it all but I enjoy mostly more Coastal variety that is fundamentally just like pepper vinegar and me like that's like my style now if you're going to go to one of those kind of restaurants in Raleigh are ever going to go and they have those kind of I'm looking at them right now those kind of amber colored plastic Pedley glasses and when I wasn't talking about right with those things and they have a jug what is amount of simple syrup with t in it and they pour it and there's not even any acid because of some of these places will not I know I know I know that's how many places won't put it like lemon even like next to her with it and yours consuming

simple syrup T I'm like a thirsty man like that is something that I could enjoy it like it take for instance I like overly sweet mint tea like like Moroccan style or like that you know I keep you in Paris they have those like those Moroccan teeth mint tea joints Peter

yeah you lie cuz he's a wheel shaking his head is so you can see his head shake on a microphone but like the the point being that I like sweet tea things in tiny amounts like send me that I like sweet beverages in tiny amounts of white cocktails which a relatively small can have some sugar in them without freaking me out but when I am thirsty I want to pound huge huge Trump style quantities of liquids and so I require them to be not sweet so I used tea that's a lot lower on sugar I'm okay with I like it with a little lemon in it that she gets me so it's not I should say that's not how the idea of cold tea that I have a problem with its overly overly sweet tea Trio what are your feelings on it sweetheart way to Sweet way to sweet sugar too much too much freaking sugar

temperature is not good for you why don't we have any like I said I said before my health and you know I just don't like it that's my thing do you like Andrew can hate on you it's all right what do you not like about it I just don't prefer it over drinking it over nothing sure I'll drink it Peter sweet tea

I can appreciate Andrews position here at the cultural thing it's like yeah yeah

guys are the worst Brandon Reitz in Hyannis Asia follow up my last email before listening to the episode that I should have read that because you don't know what he's talking about something tasting fruits that grow in temperate region so this is how we were talking about the mayapple which is the jelly and make we're actually that jelly was delicious I bring the jelly in or just the raw fruit for you guys to taste I think it's just a rock group nastase wouldn't taste it because she got no Stones no Stones not willing to risk her life for good tasting materials

this episode is really really like, and Catrina episode was in June but I figured that nastase and Dave & the Gang did not mention the pawpaw tree give to a large proportion a large portion of the United States and the temperate regions of the US and texture is similar to a mango but the taste is kind of a cross between a mango and a banana pretty delicious and very difficult to find what I do know about that but I haven't really had a lot because they're very hard to ship only for two weeks enough to have tried it because my architecture and landscape for a specified it in one of our projects I don't have any questions I'm trying to share and figure you all the interested in one of the most under-the-radar delicious fruit is native to the US still look about a month ago I didn't know you were going to call this guy who has pop on nurseries but the problem is it that I couldn't find someone who would ship me a good Paw Paw tree cuz I'm planning on planting some to see how they see how they they work you have Papa

Connecticut they grow they would like it like you know like Brandon was saying they grow in most of the temperate region they don't ship very well like a very soft and they don't ship very well and I think they're relatively polarizing and the cultivars are relatively different so it's kind of hard to get people to you know

get into it as a as a commercial fruit but yes I plan on a sampling pause you ever worry about you feed her getting Popeyes your parents are now and tropical fruit land tropical like California style some tropical fruit where they live now there's nice man after 2 years you don't give a crap about the weather anymore I just want to ask you is the weather nice where you argue like yeah I love it but like you don't write yourself as happier because the weather is nice do you hate do you hate good weather because it makes PeopleSoft is that why you don't like is that why you like it here or is it that you just don't like the people in California and that's why I moved over here

Grand entry from there so it's like one of those things where you know I always think self-hate a little weird but you know you can't get down on someone for the self-hate canyon are you allowed to make fun of someone for self-hate

don't know

Peter way you hurt your feelings necessitate I feel that you're allowed to have a lot of self-loathing like when you're in college I feel like a college is about like teenage years the adolescence is about like becoming a better person through self-loathing I feel you should grow out of it what you think Peter now Joe self-loathing yeah that's something you tell me you tell me it has something to do with the Museum of food and drink baby just answer the question it's okay to make fun of people who sell clothes

learn by doing everybody a smile on your face that's why I like working with them I don't like working with people who can't take it do you want I'm saying what do you think says what you think about people that work in the people that can't take it only people that can dish it out and can't take it

God knows I take enough to wake me up tell you what happened we had a James from Cafe besalu and I think Seattle thought I was having a problem with batch two batch is butter was but it was but it was riddle so he couldn't make like puff pastry or question or anything like this because as he was stretching the dough the butterwood shatter into pieces and wouldn't stretch along with the dough ranks and so you know he had thought that it had something to do with

maybe the feet of the animal or any of the crystal size so I wrote to Professor Doug off who is like you know one of the bigwigs at the ice cream stuff at the University of Guelph say pronounce that place Guelph and I really enjoy them and so I wrote him and I gave the question and here's what he he wrote he wrote a day I have forwarded your question to one of our faculty members with expertise in lipids technology which is a fantastic thing I did not hear from the lipid technologist which would be a fantastic title lipid technologist this is not uncommon ritual butter problem make said it was a stupid voice

I'm not doing it in your in your housing the Puffin gun voice like I do the do the beginning of the show my cell I'm in the middle of like the house if you can't scream we have neighbors anyway experience at this is not uncommon it is most likely related to fad Crystal size and structure within the butter rather than composition variation when butter is manufactured one of the objectives of cream tempering turning and working is to achieve very small fat crystals which then relates to smooth or textured can sister that consistency and pliability the exact temperature in times of these stages does relate the composition and that can vary by feed excetra after manufacture many fact

including temperature variation during storage delivery and or the age of the butter and that's also important the age of the butter and I'll get more on that later can cause an increase in fact Crystal size as this happens butter becomes progressively more course in texture and Ritalin structure think about melting butter to oil and then put it in the refrigerator to recrystallize you get a very hard riddle lump because it was not properly turned and work this would be the extreme so the variation in quality is structure / texture related and not really primarily difference in the different kinds of triglycerides that are in the butter he said I hope this helps. So I wrote him and said thank you professor and then I said this I said I'll let you know if I hear from your colleague which I did not respond in Primary Response this is me I wonder whether mechanical manipulation could help whenever I'm going to use butter in biscuits or cake and don't have time to let it temper I'd beat it repeatedly with a rolling pin I've always noticed this

glasses sizes the butter how much of that change is frictional heating probably only a small amount I do not know the effect of beating the cold butter help these folks I eat you know you guys at Cafe besalu or is the Effect 2 macro and wouldn't help them on the smaller scale of a puff pastry and he said that might help Dave could be worth a try at least so I would try taking some of the butter that is not working properly and beating the beating the bejesus out of it but then I saw an article which is available free of charge on the inter internet that you need to read called the effective factors get ready right this one down the effective factors on the structure of butter and other milk fat based products by Stein I guess how you pronounce the o with a slash through it right ruin Holt

how old is slash through it and o l a n h o l t September 2013 this article is terrible in a sense that what they really care about is producing lower-fat butter which as we all know is a horrible idea horrible horrible it's a good article in the talks about every stage step-by-step and what it does that fact vs eyes and it has the extreme advantage of being available on the internet so as you store butter and the temperature goes up like let's say it's been tempered up to 20 and then recalled and done a bunch of times the leaves a lot of smaller crystals and the ones with the lower melting points will melt out to a liquid even though the butter maintains and solid-state and then on recrystallization slowly in the fridge will get progressively larger crystals it may be causing some brittleness Crystal size just increases with time as as butter ages in the fridge so maybe the brutal butter is older butter but maybe beating the heck out of it actually might help

they're going to kick us off the air in in a minute but nastase and I actually I think she actually enjoyed this trip which is unusual usually hates most everything we went to Saratoga Springs Joy ever been to Saratoga Springs for the horse racing for the water but I didn't go to the horse races with my wife and children did you try the waters did you go to the spa State Park oh my goodness because they are naturally carbonated water comes out of the ground to sink in for a minute naturally carbonated water comes out of the ground so and they're naturally carbonated water is actually very highly mineralized some sailing seven Nastassja Ariel who is on the show last week and my brother-in-law Travis who is shooting the shooting it for the project cuz we're supposed to write something to Lucky Peak we went and taste it every one

natural springs in Saratoga race course was closed we couldn't go to it

couldn't bring myself to wait in I stayed I figured out how do I get to go there I went in the waters so like this water is pretty amazing because it's very old very deep Brown water that is super heavily mineralize and saline and it gets forced up to the surface close to the surface through a fault that runs down through Saratoga that's relatively recent the fault has a CO2 coming all the way from the mantle that goes up and pushes the stuff up in charges and as it comes up it's mixing with more recent like kind of recharge rainwater meteoric water and there's a the interview because there's a Shale layer at the top of the ground are the caps at all in so it's all under pressure so when you pour down in its self pump itself up so it's not strictly speaking an Artesian well like you would get where you're actually digging a well

head of the well is is below the water table in your recharging from a mountain let's say it's literally getting forced up and carbonated from blow but unlike a lot of carbonated Springs it's also cool it's like 50 degrees Fahrenheit and I think they're delicious start do you like to write I brought your bottle by the way I think they're delicious they're super highly mineralized I made a margarita with a strongest of the waters Yesterday by want to go back but I have a lease for any 99 almost all inside maybe all in the United States naturally carbonated Springs are in the west where there's more thermal activity but if anyone here I know there's some in Colorado I know there's some in California if any of you live near and naturally carbonated spring and for some reason you like us to get a Seltzer bottle like a lot like I would like a a carbonated water bottle fill it up all the way all the way because otherwise we'll lose too much of partial pressure cap it and send it to us and we'll taste and talk about your water on the on the air I'm super interesting tasting just various

naturally carbonated waters from all over the country but more on Saratoga when I write it up for Lucky Peach and go visit Saratoga good place thanks Joe thanks Peter see you next time cooking issues

thanks for listening to this program on Heritage Radio Network. Org you can find all of our archive programs on our website or as podcast in the iTunes Store by searching Heritage Radio Network you can like us on Facebook and follow us on Twitter at Heritage underscore radio you can email us questions at any time info at Heritage Radio Network. Org donate and become a member visit our website today thanks for listening