Cooking Issues Transcript

Episode 265: DAMN Good Coffee...and HOT!

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today right you crazy we got a lot to go through some good some great some terrible if you have questions call 718-497-2128 that's 718-497-2128 on the show we have its usual Nastasia the hammer Lopez I'm good good in the booth how you doing we have special recurring guests and secondary tasting panel because

literally doesn't care about coffee merely because I do care really is the only lover of all-things and coffee as well and also an expert in coffee techniques that I am not we got the call from Popular Science item. Poet that wrote that pops and we have enough I'm not sure his title but we had a sudden coffee correct correct and what's your title over there

Delena Chief copy officer bud are you on the engineering side are you on day production side to tasting side the money side the side there's two of us and not even numbers guy Josh who's very much numbers guy and then I handled the rest coffee Festival we had a New York this weekend right we can talk more about that later but we had a number of people actually tweeting on in and I think asking you in whether we had tried this sudden coffee and so we're going to try it and in a minute you want to go over what the Lehigh decide how do you start your Kickstarter situation where were you we will

coffee coffee to replace bring coffee yourself we're going out to a coffee shop but brought the filtering through coffee when you wouldn't be able to otherwise still selling that via thing where it was was call vaya con dios hotels at called

concussion via VIA if you can tell you that but it sounds supposed to get it I guess I'll just pick up a coffee this is counting the stars who did I walk it out like I would like a double espresso and they're like doppio and I would say double and they would say I would like a double and used to be basically forever they went they would just stay with a girl like to be a nerd like there's no need to go into like what the hell tall means cuz I don't like things that sound like

I adopt yeah I want to drink out of my son Tucker is now fourteen so it'd be incredibly inappropriate for me to say this but when he was a little kid who used to say I'm going to put batteries in my penis has a little kid before you knew what I meant and I thought that would be the best Viagra slogan beat the hell out of like all of these like Cialis and Viagra things if they could do just walked it was like yo put batteries in your penis Viagra foam and then walked away because batteries you know has that kind of look like little battery little battery never works

as an ad exact same Eric go back to buy. Coffee is the best part of waking up with somebody and then said that this is isn't that doesn't suck unless you're in a cup of coffee shops in Helsinki most best coffee taster I think in and I want to make quick easy and fun and accessible as possible and was really frustrated by Hound scalable doing a coffee shop is so decided to close that about year-and-a-half ago and started figuring out what would be a more like a better way to make

Batman and I studied two times I've University of Helsinki so had a pretty good idea of instant coffee and White Sox in first of all I don't know things have one of the highest per capita coffee consumption in the world true about you also like traditionally drink it some people in drinking with ground so you also has like strange Health anomalies due to high consumption of ground is that not true you especially sort of a lot of theories about biggie the cholesterol blood cholesterol increase the effects of drinking unfiltered coffee that much kind of people that you're like totally the Swedish but he has finished jokes where like you're you're drinking with that you're drinking with a fin and the swedes has to defend skull and the fence has are we here to drink or to talk so you talk more than most fans I would expect

I know that's why they kick me out a bit of what you're saying is you have credentials now what the wall Without Really caring I was just like if you tasted 6th grade for what's been out on the market so far and that's because they essentially start with like really cheap crappy coffee but nobody else wants to drink twice which like blew my mind when I first heard about it actually like steep it twice to make to beverages like a like a like a small beer and a lot like like like we watch

yeah but even more so they extracted unplug normal temperature was cold there read my extraction site about a hundred degrees Celsius for for whatever time and only out of coffee you can extract about 30% of the master that's like water so he will pardon vs. cellulose in Civ Crowns Who dumped what they do is that they once and they buried twice degrees Celsius for hours and what happens at first reluctant Hemi cellulose changes and becomes water soluble and you can go from like 20% extraction yield which is the stuff you extract just what you normally when I do it took to 60% which makes a lot of sense if you want to get as much stuff out of there out of the beaten for as little money as possible what does that also do they need the increase in the technique list looking for Pure number extract and is it is a Hemi cellulose help in bulk or is that

it's it's probably for that today will they do offer that is baby usually combined them and then

eventually boils down to is operated vacuum distillation right yeah yeah and then right and it helps in the spray drying for the impression there is a vacuum distillation run Venice spray dry right then a recomp combining and then and are driving or something like there's many steps it takes a lot of steps to make even crappy and getting coffee right and I don't even know like what else. Goering and then select spray drive so dried with hot air and it's not only a great way to preserve any flavors that might be in their room has to dry coffee they sprayed some of the coffee Aroma and oil into that ground to make you smell and taste pressure

with the best possible coffee you can find dehydrated flavors in there or is much that we can listen to Coffee what is wrong with you why would I do that leave I tasted it it doesn't really used to have it in my house when I was growing up because my mom would use it in cake recipes right what's your Technique when I get milk and sugar and all the rest of day and say that I'm a bad person more than normal

so we like we started as a flood where is San Francisco Bay start up now so we started as a shots that we've been kind of is that it's a it's a like like changing constantly on chemical basis 2 minutes pulled so like a cold espresso even as carefully rewarmed as possible in a completely static environment with no anything just changes over time or espresso keeping a kid kept at a constant temperature will change drastically over time

sealed so it's not just simply about a loss I can actually changing as it sitting there more so than drip right radically changing vs espresso which is like changing radically quickly no yeah yeah I mean down and rescue to that like bitter nasty sour taste you looks like you are faltaste that's what he likes the most so if you don't have that oxidation but that's like prefer

I was about to make a jug wine joke but she actually likes really good line so given the choice and by the way he can do whatever he wants he said Ray kinsella have earned the right with their palette overtime to do whatever the hell they want so you're essentially freeze-drying right yeah but I will mention this not knowing a coffee is notoriously difficult to capture as a distillate I don't know whether anyone out there listening knows that but the aroma of coffee very hard to capture and keep an especially in a non-alcoholic situation virtually impossible to get a decent thing I think it's because so much of

so much of the coffee character is in the is in the larger molecular weight crab gets left behind in the cup so I would you agree with that yeah

what are the interesting price of is working on this is that I get to speak out about stuff like this and you can just not so yeah it's like a big part of it is some of the heavier molecules always been you just kind of lewd heavy enough that you can extract them out of there would you really interesting flavor is always being in the shower and I'll talk about it except that makes sense to stay with coffee how long does it how instant is instant

it's sudden it's very saddened by the way the enemies equality all around us to that says to that question the concentration like there's nothing intrinsically great about the fact that about 1.5% of 1.522 is 98% water where is the Rocky like 10% coffee solids and 90

water when you when you can only avoid basically dehydrated some amount of stuff makes a lot more sense to tell me when you buy enough so we're now we're now we're really working on scaling up the direction by end of October latest I think

anastacio likes dumping the coffee out when we take a look at it my eyes are really bad for reasons I'll discuss later if you want to get calls in this part of the show or wait till later it is it can I use the sudden thing in the steering device out just wanted to make you as first is that you did

so what I'm doing now I just have brown powder in the bottom of the cup and pouring water and you get a cup of coffee with the color I don't know if it's related to Coffee color

okay I have no questions about coffee and I'm sorry since I don't drink coffee and coffee is really awesome with ice cream you just makes it and become super super awesome

Mike's my question has to do with making basil or any kind of herb ice cream cuz I seen a bunch of different recipes I've tried a few I can't figure out which is fast Sunday heat up the base and then blend in your your heard other say just do a cold infusion with the based on say to a cold infusion and now I'm wondering kind of what's what's the best best way to get the best flavor is it without getting any of those off notes I can't remember if I've ever asked how soon do you have to have how soon do you have to wait before you turn it and what you're turning what what are you using to turn it

I mean I don't I don't have any on me right now what kind of what kind of what kind of machine are you using Frozen it the sad part is it probably will continue to go nasty because you're going to be hyper contracted hyper concentrate in the enzymes and whatever is left of the liquid phase but it'll also happen I don't know what a win whether the concentration of winter weather the reduced temperature is going to win in terms of making it stay nice I think that the correct answer is not going to be

is not going to be blanching it because then you're not going to get any of the kind of fresh flavors that you want if you were going to use me like a paco jet I would just freeze the leaves hole and then Taco Jed it down but you're not going to do that you could do you could blend herbs in like a little bit of like high proof ethanol and then use the high-proof ethanol-blended herbs in with the base and that will it will mess with your freezing point depression slightly but I believe that the alcohol should help DNA denature the polyphenol oxidase enzymes and a little bit of ascorbic acid but not enough to mess with you or not enough to mess with you would be would be helpful in that as well but I wish I had more personal experience working out because basil ice cream is a thing you see so people must know how to do it and then one of the chat room

amazing green because the drying process gets rid of the polyphenol oxidase enzyme

just talking about Starbucks instant coffee okay great definitely not blanching your plans for that you should read Harold McGee section on pesto in the Curious cookware in he tries various different techniques for keeping pests pesto nice and green one of which is blanching which is Dean

in terms of slavery


yeah but the problem is color and flavor are linked to the brown notes the brown color is linked with oxidized flavor in those situations Brown nodes Browntown which is where we are going with the answer and we'll figure it out speaking of singing Broadway musicals. Getting ready song Polly you know that, said he loves musicals do you know that he's like a musical I didn't know that Miranda is disappointed he wasn't in the in the recent Ghostbusters reboot what do you want of those anti Ghostbusters reboot people call you strike me as as as could either be one or not

I was not one of the new Ghostbusters are all women which destroys the childhoods of people who saw it growing up in which the original Ghostbusters were not women on way that's what I've heard. Yes Dave thank God Paul's here because I don't believe you

I didn't say that I just didn't know I didn't know

start yet that's the problem people working with us. So you never know whether she is just like saying something that is actually backed up with information or whether she's just blowing smoke up here you never know just what do you think coffee is not a vote of confidence my friends why is that

I think it's a variety of things

I think our deal flavor bill as we find is a little higher concentrations and flutter regular filter coffee instead of 1.5 1.5 it's closer to chewed just gives you a little more solid

I thought that it would be just like to do some of the acidity through the person I sleep with a big body and low acidity in a little bitterness

and the cool thing is that you can also drink with

higher concentration of espresso style if that's how you like it can you make sure

what's the name of the of the actress used to Lawson Loop Shop of Horrors

in the movie remember the movie I like that

ween at the theater there sitting there on the way to staring into the grass I wear it's getting better all the time and by early October we should be it so much much better for him wanting to get a cup and try to stuff cuz I got to make the wheels turning here and now you have wheels in the sky keep on turning by the way to break and then come back with your life story

brother will come in and we'll we'll pretend like a show is starting again with with whole new whole new set of like questions and answers later for sous-vide by chefsteps purees even smooth creamy ice cream have to sit in your kitchen drawer and it's operated By An Elegant smartphone app that's been designed to remove the guesswork get you cooking faster and give you the information and inspiration you want when you want it

that's amazing recipes and helpful guide choose your perfect for any results until you're ready for a delicious dinner from Joule

and we're back with a sudden coffee little device so you can be like in general why do you not like crying because you taste it separately and it's different constituent because it's coming out and mainly at the part of the extraction right is if you don't like what is it you don't like about it what it is but is that because of what is that because that it is fraught or is that because of when it's happening during the shop

have you actually tried frothing your product and does it taste bitter

label parts of the bean that I just go find they go through The Middle's filter that making more bitter if you're looking at a machine profile on it used to be said was that lever machines produce a lot less crap but have a lot better but have a lot some people like the flavor profile of lever machines better and the reason is because they're pushing the spring goes down because you're pulling out at the end is better because that's where it's coming from where as we all know that espresso has higher foaming capacity than regular coffee when you're making regular drinks with it so merely the fact that there is foam on

top isn't necessarily mean that that phone is better it's where the phone is coming from in an actual regular Bruce press a shot right or could be I wish I go back to my other question have you actually tried foam in your product to see whether you like it actually haven't really just like phoning to the holding but it's like phone quite as play the same way as Nescafe

again I Nescafe like you lost me there but like

don't rank on my garbage to take if you were taking espresso shot in a cup take a right and then you were to add milk and shake with ice with the regular espresso

probably would but that's also what we do after we Brew the coffee we do a full tree which produces a solid person I don't enjoy your coffee and I like we want to have removed you could sell those today by side same Barista same beans same Grinder like same espresso machine Corporation Victoria Arduino I had one of their vs. they're not in their lever machine pressure profile about the coffee you know that I built my own pressure profiler like years ago with a with a shunted i shunted out my procon pump with a with a profile pressure

I had to reach underneath my calendar and then put my head up to look at the gauge and see where I was going but I could I could dial between 100% 550 pressure all the way up to the bar and then just go anywhere in between those with a ball valve like that is is touchy because it's not linear anyways great I like like one out of eight shots I was able to get like a pretty smooth ramp from you know like like full spring pressure which has been a while but it's like it's like a hundred like that right when the spring releases is like a hundred and I think 50ps I don't know what is bar and then it goes down to well below or maybe less than eight and a half for a hundred something at the end of the shop because obviously goes down so I was able to get a decent shot that way was just so much of a pain in the butt and then I was going to try to build one with a Servo that would eventually

but now a lot of people that I was talking to the LA marzocco people yesterday in fact and did those guys were like people are so worried about all these variables they don't even control like the most important thing which is the dose control the ghost one of their temperature profiles was they start it colder in the beginning and end hotter which is the weirdest thing ever because you're like intentionally producing a tart shot you're sucking out like very acidic shot which the only people I know who make like you're at the show you saw this machine right

I mean I think it doesn't make any sense I don't really believe in the temperature profile you make sense in a sentence that if you have a cold or might want to have a ramp down ramping but the dankery unpleasantly like like taking a citrus African acidic wine denotes an espresso shot or no I guess not sitting in the beginning and we're really on we're working on preserving more that I say to you through the process of the we start with something that's going to more acidic

has any other than anything else but he does not have a city profile and I would prefer more like just a bit more balanced sweeter approach Nespresso Guy where are we can't stop can't stop myself this this is so where are we where are we in the espresso volume Wars are we coming back up to normal shot volumes are we still with these likes Kimco craziness is

I think coming back to like normal Williams like one to do ratios like one part of coffee grounds do you like to burst coffee that comes so we would do something like those coffee in like 40 grams of coffee per cup in like 2001 like she's coming somewhere in between like 10 years ago when I was six or seven stuff like that it was like

is literally yeah they were feeling triple baskets and then like you know I was like where's where's the where's the coffee bean coffee set of extraction the Old Witch's how much stuff you extract out of the grounds and the more water you is the higher extraction you looking gay coffee but more water to do the job at some point like a couple years ago we went to the extreme lengths which in some ways it's a coffee but I think now it's it's somewhere around like that of the closer to regular

more like you would have gotten in 2001 cuz I guess I don't know it's what I like but whatever that's me I got married before we talk about what happened in my face I should do the face first news on Friday Dorothy Cann Hamilton the founder of the French Culinary Institute now the international culinary Center died in a car accident and her beloved Nova Scotia and I don't really know the particulars of it yet I don't know if you know they they just publicly announced it I think on Sunday night I think or something like that right

sound of the French culinary in like 1984 from right around the same here actually on food and cooking came out and you know she was kind of the force behind a lot of what was good about culinary education United States for many many years she gave me my first real job in the in the food World in their director of culinary technology there for years with Nastasia and yeah so

excuse not you she was not sick with nothing was very terrible terrible news and my heart goes out to to her family and to the whole community at the ICC

dampster mix sound


yeah lot of people a lot of people have gone through that school to you the fact about people most recently she did the she did the expo at Milan if we got to go in the line so just you know stay super in it Super Active you know one of the things I was there she rested control away from investors and got the school back and you know

she was a she was a force to be reckoned with anyway terrible Catalonia last week giving a talk at Alycia and Eliza Foundation from there with us by piranhas me ugly people are standing by the cattle and government and he he helped out with it but it's in the middle of this town it's near a town called Navarre class because I can't pronounce the other one the other town is something very like Fruity bags it's like Fruity bags but it's in it's in Thailand so I don't even know how it looks like this and fruity bags I was there and actually interesting way of doing a demo for a bunch of olfactory scientist and I was using the actual Center fuse that was the first one that Brian had used and by the way not

nearly as good as the one that we used to use the French corner at yeah yeah yeah yeah I wasn't sprayed with like CSI juice like ours was but the also I use the actual rotary evaporator that that the Rope is used to do their oyster distillate way back in the day, like literally and they know it's like they're like you know we don't really do that kind of work anymore at least he but they have all of that the stuff left over so I was like okay so I went to go use it because I was doing and actually this fits into a question to ask about not sweet honey

week ago and I can't remember whether I done a honey just to live but when I went there I was supposed to mess with olfaction right and when is a material that knocks out your sense of sweetness for about half hour and starts with me it's awful and but you swirl around them for like half hour or more sometimes you can't taste anything sweet white sugar taste like sand everything is completely unpleasant we use it to teach kind of what sugar does to texture so you can just remove the sensation of sweetness and it knocks out artificial sweeteners and knocks out the effect of miraculin so you know it ruins that party to it knocks out brown sugar doesn't taste sweet things that smell sweet to you but but like candies things that you associate with

don't taste sweet at all what does brown sugar taste like sand with a little bit of butterscotch e hit but the melting sand but honey still taste sweet and so I distilled honey there and serve them honey distillate with none of the sugar and they all agree that tasted sweet so there's something about honey that we perceive as sweet that's not that's old-fashioned based that's not having to do the sweet receptors because you're sweet receptors are totally wiped out by changing the gasket oldies but goodies. I used to do that dinner thing years and years ago I called the cheese course where I would take wines I would take like three sweet wines I would take off the Brandy on a rotary evaporator and then reduce them down to about 60 or 70 brick so they were like a stirrup there's never been heated and then serve them both with cheese isn't an array of like you know the way of toppings

evaporative stuff down in the rotary evaporator was a little bit leaky so I couldn't get the stuff that down but they had a vacuum oven so I ripped the vacuum of an apart and put a coat rack Builder coultrap the output of the vacuum oven because I had a really good vacuum pump they stuck his stuff in a vacuum bag and taped to the interior the cylinder the vacuum of and was able to get all of my product down to 70 bricks in the vacuum of in and I was like I had to go to a lunch lunch was over had to go get the stuff out of the vacuum of and now all of Elysia is like all this glass tall glass everywhere Glass Walls freaking glass everywhere and like I guess for like a hbac reasons a staggered the door so you have to go in one and then you have to turn and go in another and then the kitchen is there but the kitchen is All Glass glass and so like this thing I I don't know I thought it was a freaking door and and when I walk I walk fast especially when I'm going to get something I don't run cuz you don't run in the kitchen right

first right into the glass right into the glass like right on the point of my forehead because when I walk I walk with my head slightly down and slightly turn to one side if my kind of thinking mode slightly down insulated on one side and so I hit right above my left eyebrow look like I didn't pass out but I did one of those like I did one of those like sumo squats down and it was in like just stay there for like Frozen like in like a like a like like you know like you can't see cuz you're one of these

it does look like what I've never seen you from this angle before.

The horse stance in karate like really like a hurricane. To actually hit the floor when that haven't hit the floor and I'm squatting down and I could feel my head is bleeding but that's how fast the edema was building up in my head and I was like man blood no blood because the class so smooth so sweet I tore a little bit so there was a little bit but I had embedded a grapefruit under orange Under My under my eye socket and then the next day it was kind of totally glued shut but the entire conference heard it so even the guy giving a

at the time but was that really know what's going to happen when I went to the hospital turned out catalonian medical care vastly more efficient in like an hour and 10 minutes like on the. And we ended up all laughing because I didn't break anything and I was looking at him I know is that I just been to a talk today before where the guy mentioned that if you break that your nose in the wrong way and shears all the nerves from your old. I have like I have a chef translating and he says the doctor says

is no cure for loss of dignity and people are just like not eating as much as they should have been eating and

across the table from me tonight started wearing sunglasses and the next day even though I was out when you mess your face up people like it when you wear sunglasses

that's just I don't know

that's what that's what happened to giving your Breville induction unit back when I told him that you were going to steal that anyway, wait on me. Don't know Paul is like mr. drone will you say your mr. Drummond or more like Captain ground like a small village with a couple weeks ago and I see this kid flying a kite right now

running in a field with the grass flying a kite right now is like when she just sharpen the props on a drone and you're on the other side of the Hill

X cut the kite is cut the kite whenever the worst thing ever that would be the worst thing ever do it

the thing is just like it's the kind of thing that you would want to do so you can see the look on the kids face and then press a button rewind it and never have it happen to the kid if you were actually want the Kid to Kid flying a kite because his dad is making fried if we can pipe he doesn't want to fly to Freedom type writer

problems with tingling after all these years we shared a moment together for any reason cuz I got it wise you know like you have Alton Brown be put in the oven for like an hour he wants to do that you can just make a roux right in the thing like stir it once every never does never burn

we think good application Paul I love her

okay with your bar on October 15th service temporarily and they're going to remodel and when they're done remodeling they would have taken the booker and Dax space and absorbed Jabba the Hutt style into the renovated sambar so there will be no place for us it's a sad because

there was nothing wrong with the bar the bar works fine I mean like but we're going to we're hopefully going to reopen soon because it's all part of negotiations are ongoing that I can't really discuss but there's I definitely plan on reopening reopening of Booker and Dax as soon as I can because I enjoyed I enjoyed it better but it's always kind of and I am the bigger and better but patient slow and stupid wins the race

do you like 2 minutes for the Tramp by the way oh no I had really good I was so kind of I am I no idea cuz I hadn't heard about Dorothy's I wasn't like depressed about that at that point but like my eye was inflated like a three-game baseball I have to fly in cattle class back from the thinks I'm in the airport and I see this like awesome light come on like in the thing and normally on the guy can't take that back to the to the US Mike wait I'm just going to buy some really expensive freaking ham and I'm going to eat it on the freaking playing all by yourself all by myself now you have another song going through my head if you can take us back to the US and I'm like I'm not going to I'm going to eat it and she was like

1 minute Dave my God wait so we had a question on rice and I don't have time to get the quiz question on Rice Quinn asked me about who he or she I don't know I got a receipt so she was cooking rice and I had a problem where the rice at the bottom of the pot was mushy compared to the rest of the top right of time so I want to answer your question and I had about 10 or 15 minutes of rice rice information to like start spewing a ramp and I don't have the time to do it so what I want from you I'll do I'll spew that stuff including the awesome article I read the impact of pre-soak on the flavor of cooked rice by ET champagne best author named ever ET champagne writing by the flavor and interesting the answer is it pre soaking rice although we seem to have a negative flavor impact according to this document you should read that another document approved for you was the formation of cracks in rice during sweating but I need some more information from you Quinn what kind of rice are you cooking for instance

exactly what time so some rice is harder to cook without the bottom going mushy than others like certain like jasmine rice is I need to know what kind of rice you're cooking I don't even know what quantities are cooking because you might just need to move to a wider pan cuz a lot of times when rice is mushy on the bottom and on the top the issue isn't that your depth of rice is too high for the cooking method that you've employed so send me back some more information on what kind of rice you're doing what quantity is what size pot and we'll tackle your question next week on cooking issues

thanks for listening to this program on Heritage Radio Network. Org you can find all of our archive programs on our website or S podcast in the iTunes Store by searching Heritage Radio Network you can like us on Facebook and follow us on Twitter at Heritage underscore radio you can email us questions at any time at info at Heritage Radio Network. Org Heritage Radio Network as a nonprofit organization to donate and become a member visit our website today thanks for listening