Cooking Issues Transcript

Episode 257: Enlightenment Wines with Raphael Lyon

I do not show on the Heritage Radio Network because I think it's important to talk about the impact of technology on our lives a show to reach out and help you better industry I like hosting my show because to me it's the stories about people and their relationship to food that help make the food more interesting and more delicious

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Pizzeria in Bushwick call +849-721-287-1849 72128 joined as usual with Nastasia the hammer Lopez how you doing how's your week so a little later on your sister you wanted to tell your sisters I bought her for her birthday a crock pot and a copy of dump meals that's right meals and

I just can't be bothered to surface for anything so anyway you can make coffee in Crock-Pot but I wouldn't recommend it anyway so it's like like this and dinner. Alina Lopez is the cooking issues don't be a correspondent so she's going to be calling you said that that your sister doesn't necessarily have any sort of we should not in the food business got a boyfriend you freak shows out there got a boyfriend

anyways point being she has no knowledge should not listen to this and like it highly doesn't even though she's going to call in after we're going to get her fired from her first job out of college by having her calling to talk about. Melo sweet sweet joint in the booth with you have a good week very good week decided for some meat talk guest today is Rafael from Enlightenment wind on Lake Mead wind say say hello to a little bit but it's actually you have a tasting room here in Bushwick but that's not where the actual production happens right will it will I've been making the meets Upstate for the last almost 10 years

and now we just open the production space out off of Jefferson out so we have a tasting room and we have a beautiful facility for making wine I did not know this because I'm stupid term for a like a mead maker is laser Mather so you are a major right it's helpful. That way you don't have to tell people you make wine because when you say that Jacob think of Grape Wine and that's not really what I do so you know when your Mead maker you're also an herbalist you also forward to your visit lot to it that's not just in the production space on the same way that come winemaker awesome grows grapes but you know they're not a silly thought of his Farmers sow me to make her has a similar kind of a broader activity makes me so you are Naser Twitter handle is my major at NYU

especially popular social media dances from roughly think I'm wrong roughly like

three to four years ago so you're looking at like between 2012 and 2014 everyone says the medes coming to Meats coming he have an occasional bottle of mead usually by one of the larger producers in some of the wine stores and then when I finally get around to saying okay now don't me that I had when I was a you know young in my twenties was garbage garlic bad I mean maybe it's the way they wanted it maybe they wanted it to taste like it had all sorts of other weird fermentations going on and it an oxidizing messed up in like does not right and like not fermented out and I think people are going for too much alcohol anyway the me my meat experiences have not been the best and

like a couple months ago was like this is ridiculous if one of the oldest beverages known right people drank it and drink it for some time since time immemorial pretty much every human culture on Earth there's no way that it can't be good something with that kind of History to it that it's just the ones that I've had recently or bad and then I ran to the problem over the past couple of months that now I think a lot of stores and maybe started carrying so I went to some of the places that were on some of those articles from the from the meat explosion a couple years ago and a lot of them is not caring anymore so you want to talk about the current state of me and like trying to get a carry and wine stores in price points and problems and there's a lot to talk about

well part of part of the Enlightenment wines project is that it's largely self-taught meaning that you know I wasn't dead in Prentice or Winery or at a Craft brewery or anything like that and then decide to make Mead and that's partially because I wanted to start from scratch and and really with very few tools right so I did it without electricity practically for five or six years partially to get back to understanding how it was really made initially and now you know whenever I started making this stuff in 2000 right I've been doing it for a while can I see the the growth of Mead and and who's making it and why it's not always been made properly I think it's pretty obvious part of the problem is with the resources to make it right there typically Brewers right so what do you make mead there's you know the equipment involves right if you come

it was a brewing mentality you did a bad side to it which is that it's sterile your heating things are filtering them you doing all this right that's bad it's good because Brewers are used to sort of mixing things together and making alcohol out of it but that first part of the process especially Brewers who are used to from the last 10 years of trying to make increasingly alcoholic beer is increasingly hopped beers right that's the American way right so you end up with a very high alcohol wine which is typically Suite 302 bolt on the other hand was the real resources and the knowledge base to make good Mead which are natural winemakers right which are people are used to barrels the stuff is in sterile it's very low tack it's very takes a long time all that kind of stuff

and are used to the fact that every year is going to be different that there's vintage is there not trying to produce a Campbell Soup can write that in that world in the mentality of natural wine makers

a lot of the things that are fundamental to making Mead which is adding herbs adding fruits mixing things together specifically adjusting the sugar at the beginning right now so you can decide if you want to start with at the end of that you mix water and you can dilute it right those things are anathemata natural winemakers so deep for them and I'm speaking very generally here it's a big leap to get into wine making so what that stone is left a real hole for 4 for the meat industry have someone start a step in who's using an unnatural by making practices but applying it to Honey wine and kind of fruit wines so you know and you can say the same thing so I mean if you go upstate there's lots of Wineries and I'll sell you

you know like a dandelion wine which is like a sugar wine where they wave dandelions over it I think or something you can't taste anything or like a really sweet like cranberry wine and really it's just the flavor of color thing right I mean you have to ask sugar from something else anywho right right exactly the dandelion wine who's really proud of it and I was really young and such a dick that I was like doing a line wine is like it's some sort of like weird kick Pennsylvania thing you're making me and is what's actually considered like a country want write a farmer's wife so the history of the dandelion wine is really amazing and if you look into it it's really you for going to find this in herbalism books right so like most alcohol made for the you know first half of humanity it was a really to get you drunk it was to preserve plants whose preserve medicinal qualities of plants so

New England Farmers for example when they come to New England right in there trying to grow stuff and you know they're for the most part don't know what they're doing and they don't have any Citrus and they all have scurvy everyone in New England that scurvy for like a hundred years between you know January in June pretty much write access to and you're not making sauerkraut right which many of them like they weren't German if their English is coming or not making sauerkraut this is so little vitamin C in the system that another eating like grass and stuff in the spring and so if you have a dandelion wine which dandelions are incredibly packed with iron and vitamin C and all these kind of things and it's preserved the tradition of dandelion wine is that in the early spring kind of right when you start seeing the dandelions you take a shot of it after lunch or something it's a tonic it's not something you'd like to sit around with a snifter it's a tonic itch relief medicine so end

and all these are all qualities for it but you know really if you look at it it's probably just simply that their it's like you know when you have low levels of scurvy you start having like you know what vitamin C deficiency you get your cold like like like Advanced scurvy says he would like it so sweet so anyway good business because it's the most bitter it's the most complicated likeness Asia we can we can start you can start with this is

does it make this you have to actually pick up a shitload of flowers so you know you have about a week to do it in right so the bloom for dandelions is Tiny like they kind of grow all year but they're really only around for like a week in a big amount that makes an efficient so it's because you let a little acidic stuff happened to it or is it honey wine you have to like people think that media is going to be like a single honeymead right like it it's a great Spritz is a PTT for one or two drinks are always on top of everything was about a price on this weasels there weasels

advantage of this so we've got a Farm Winery license so in exchange for the Restriction of using New York State ingredients we are allowed the privilege of opening a bar Next Door full full Liquor Bar you know we can have whatever we want we can serve with everyone but you can go there you can have a drink and if you want you can buy our bottles right now right to go so you can like have glass of mead you can go out drinking a glass of beer for that matter or any number the cocktails and we make with his stuff but the nice things you can buy the bottles right there and go home and feel some of that that's floral hit you going to smell the honey more than you going to taste it from letting it like a multi Floral in a deadline when you'd actually use a lemon juice so you know in in general the honey wines was going to say was that like it's actually very hard to make a mead just from

the water doesn't have the tan in mm of the assets right just have a structure we have it but it's if you eat again if using processed honey which I don't there's almost no nutrients in it so you know I'm using unfiltered like raw honey it's got pollen in it it's got to be Parts in it I don't like them. Like beer makers do writers yeah I mean you know typically you need to bring out a fruit into it to bring the acid in the tenants are you going to bring some kind of herbs in it to bring the tannins up the traditional recipe for dandelion wine requires a lemon lemon juice which I'm not allowed to use until we can start figure out how to get the lemons out of out of the greenhouse

there is a New England Nick like orange that will go through the winter it's this tiny little it's called a trifoliate orange they do their used as rootstock for other things to go out and you can see them feel like nasty full forms without I can use sumac to make delicious very highly coloured line all the time and it's easy as hell before issuing a New York I love to man is so pleasing have you had to pick it and take all the hairs off the pill so I don't ever it doesn't sit a long time so I just I just do basically a quick boil Steve strained spin-off get to put the clear we had a fight

because it was just I was like killing myself because I couldn't get the August so I would like multiple wash we wash the same thing over and over again and then but if I cooked it I would get a green vegetable flavored I didn't like yeah you have to rip out the center because people are Dominus they're not you're not down there not calling you dumb but like people associate sumac or poison sumac Staghorn sumac near me And there's a couple other different kinds of varieties wet from humidity and white like white eye cream but Harry

you know it was like they were literally citric acid crystals on the outside has like kind of like a marijuana like wet dream but it was on sumac yet

sumac for your harvested there's some smoothing want some Harrier ones but when you the thing is it looks nice and friendly and pretty but when you start picking apart to get this weird greasy feeling on your hands I don't know what that's from and then inside is all this like nasty business whatever I could have for me the you know when you talk about forging something you're talking about like can I get 50 gallons of it or not you know it's so part of a very strong very strong a good amount with what say you were to get like a laundry bag full of stuff which is a pain in the ass and I can straighten this is what I use it for this year I'm going to go back to him because I like it's a little richer of an acid and I did it was already it was

all you all New York rosehip hibiscus and sumac buys can't give up to Max as its own what that's Anastasio favorite noise in the whole world this is, this is the night I saw this is we Bluth when we open about a week ago and this stuff cuz we start selling it by the bottle and he will just hang out with it and it's just a calculation somewhere around twenty brakes or something like that and I probably should use a brakes but it's kind of like when I was a kid like my dad went out and bought us all like a hockey sticks for it has been a frozen pond and I didn't know anything about hockey so we just

whole family left handed sticks so I learned left-handed and that's just how I play hockey down I use a hydrometer for this if you don't hydrometer is you should it's kind of this miracle tools

it measures the density of liquid it looks like a thermometer in it as a as a liquid is more thing it's our sinks and then is it becomes worth it cuz of the sugar it goes up cost about $7 the next best tool you can use to measure like the alcohol or sugar content in your liquid cost like $5,000 is useful at all so I'm a huge fan of these kind of these queries simple tools are very low-tech you can make a hydrometer and actually I learned recently that in the old days for alcohol but it's good for one thing which is measuring the sugar content of the initial initially and talk about the circle that the egg made like weather looks like a half dollar English right so they use Pence or whatever

yeah that's what I used to hate feeling tubes up with stuff and it floated especially if they don't think about it they don't think about what it's actually measuring see everyone is using a hydrometer they know they're really they're just measuring the density and so when there's like stuff in the initial initial gravity and you assume that you do two sugars and then and then when it went from ants out you do the calculation you do bang but it don't work that way you know what I mean now there are people that have calculated final gravity

initial or you know original gravity and then your what are they called us to finish wanted that after you take these two numbers and the second gravity is really a bull crap number right because let's say comes out at you know one which is 000 which is theoretically the density of water what that really means is you have some alcohol and some sugar because of sugar are in the Yeah Yeah Yeahs because he want more alcohol than the people have tables where they know the final gravity of it aren't measured that way so rough refractometer is literally looking and the responses for sugar versus alcohol I don't know how linear they are over the range you're checking so literally you have that someone who just takes a bricks which is a particular scale right measuring ring of refraction cuz all is measuring is light bending and then you have to have someone calibrate the

the final the final alcohol reading based on a particular OG and it just you just have to pray it's linear in that range but it is their own use if you know what I mean there's also some weird relationship between the two that's not linear it's also your tongue is also the beer best weapon right I mean that's the you can taste the sugar at unbelievably tiny amounts and so at the end of the permit I like gets less and less useful and then you start tasting it out want to make sure it's not stuck before you taking it so you know you basically coming out dry then you you add a little bit of Honey or sugar back in and you continue the fermentation in the bottle if I was really smart or I would like some old French guy been doing this for five

beers like I would just bottle it when I knew it had the right amount of sugar in it but because I don't have access to either that like historical tradition of like really knowing that very few know when you make the same line every year you can cut it just taste it but for me I have to go dry and then go back for the secondary this particular lady called what do we got what kind of questions are on the air

hi Dave

this is my sister hello hey you're on the air so this is going to be taking a break and I hope it's something not what I'm thinking it is as I like to say all meals and meals meal describe what you been making out okay so I did four different meals with a crock pot and I'm easily just threw a bunch of stuff and that's the recipe told me to basically go to the local Circle K buy some stuff and dump it into a Crock-Pot walk away from it come back and eat a peach for we go to the dollar store and we come back and we make alcohol out of that stuff you just dump dump it in the thing come back in 2 months to stay away from

Dollar Store me make a dollar and that turned out great in the morning I did Ginger Teriyaki chicken that's going to work I mean this is going to work that's oatmeal in a Crock-Pot not talking about the chicken what what kind of chicken do they recommend chicken thighs and chicken legs okay okay okay inherent chicken dust you were making them work

and then I had to do like a full can of ginger ale and a full bottle of teriyaki sauce and some other things beforehand sorry did you brown the chicken before hand in Crock-Pot with me wash it off you wash your chickens I just wanted to make sure it's clean my swimming stuff on it that means you purchase crack chicken not a freaking fish you know what I'm saying We like girl you're ripping the bones out of it's a freaking chicken it's already been dredged through like the hell in God they've already beaten the crap out of that thing they put it into a fundamentally

giant like washing machine made of rubber to rip every dang feather off of it could be completely eviscerated and sprayed down anyway I have the skin on

yes but you know we treated the skin in any shape form kind you literally through this thing in with ginger ale and teriyaki sauce so the dump meal ladies idea of Browning the skin with the dump teriyaki sauce into it in my semi am I on track here

Maddie this lady's idea of Browning the skin the lady who wrote. Meals with to add teriyaki sauce that was in lieu of Browning the skin right

one sec hold on this sounds like it's a nightmare is there any sort of sauteed onion or garlic anyting

why is there any sort of sauteed onion or garlic in with this don't chicken well they were two different chicken instances and one of them has onion in it but no so let me get this straight it's just ginger ale Teriyaki washed chicken in a crock pot for like 8 hours and nothing else Owen rice at the bottom rice at the bottom and did you add the rights of the very gecko

so that wasn't over cooked at all then

how was it tell me how it was it delicious if you enjoy it you did what was the texture of the rice like you going to let your sister said it was almost like a risotto on unstirred Crock-Pot listen floating the rice is going to sink to the bottom and it's in the Crock-Pot it's like everything that you know okay that you made a bell pepper and one cooked bell pepper

you got kicked that one in the Crock-Pot ribs uncooked bell pepper into it with the skin on into a Crock-Pot okay when next and then I think it was just the chicken breast boneless boneless breast for 8 hours okay what liquid do you pour into this water water and what else taco seasoning taco seasoning like when you picked up the chicken if you allowed it to cool when you hit it against a table what it actually like friable shadow where was it was it like a chicken leather or did it like with the chicken in any sense still juicy at all in any way shape kind for matter what do you had to stab you shred it

yeah I was easily stratobowl I bet why would you ever use breast me for that basically what you're saying just like only thing that didn't work with a spare ribs that added you know my God tell me how to spare ribs and spare ribs what kind of beer what beer did you choose what beer did you choose but it's Thursday and then I think it was like a whole whole bottle of barbecue sauce too and it just looks really gross and so I didn't want to do it but you did it anyway or you didn't taste it

I mean like I didn't even cook it it just smells nauseating how old is your sister that you didn't give the alcohol time to cook off maybe beer-based fear-based phrases like for instance the famous like Guinness and a beef that the Irish folk make is good but not at the get-go you have to actually does have to cook quite a long time but the last the lack of Browning disturbs me Chinese recipes it's like I don't know anyway so listen are you going to continue to make some more dump meals you can make some more dump meal for is he going to continue BR dump meal correspondent

people calling your questions for I'll let you know that you're right in your questions for Natty and her and her dump meals the freaking Crock-Pot for real what about the onions you threw into this other thing did it brown a freaking I knew beforehand she's gone she's not used to it like that you are nice. You just can't believe it was a joke in there somewhere

let's talk about that we just sold out of any way you can keep the anastacio hate almost everything and I guarantee you know I know you like it because it's got some of the same notes at Orange wine has and it writes got a drink meet right

segment of the alcohol market right so that's great for investors and I'll see to be like here we go let's do it right but when we look for allies and it's very different than the craft beer movement which I think you know kind of came out together cuz there's so much good crappie with people want to make and there's definitely good meme makers out there and I can recommend some but part of it is The Branding my I operated like a kind of a club for about five or six years to people signed up on the email list I got to meet them I knew who them knew they were one of the nice things about this product is that it's got a really nice gender balance of men and women tend to like it equally which weather is in Maker's or just drink beer and hard liquor right and what are the problems is that the the The Branding for a lot of need is like based on this like really in a

mythical Viking axes Super Macho super hetero Super Macho and I think it really turns off a lot of women who would normally actually like the product so I think that would be the third the Third Kind of leg of the stool of like how not to make mead what are your what are your thoughts on the upper east side of Manhattan have you like if I ever like so like no offense Upper East Side people to school up there are people that precise like honey so sweet honey syrup with sugar and honey wine is made from sweet Crepes rice wine is made from sweet rice honey wine is made alcohol starts out

biggest challenge is just education that's why we make dry ice dry wines we tell people listen to this isn't going to be sweet turn the first things we we talked about that's why we named The Tasting Room Honey's cuz we want to like you want to hide that we want to be forward about that it's like this is a honey based alcohol but honey has a lot going for that's not sugar you know it's got this great okay try this one this is this is like what you do now for lack of a better word this straight white meat right spot we get to create the vocabulary for this product class right you don't work trying to position ourselves as making the best meat in the country so that gives us a position to say like what is it how do we talk about it was it look like what kind of glasses do you put it in that stuff's really exciting big space big big open space what I have not been able to do is figure out what to how to talk about the money that we make that's just the honey wine

cuz I don't want to say it straight cuz that's got issues and I don't want to tell you want to call it white right cuz it's you don't compare to what so and I don't want to say it's a plane because it's not the Chardonnay of amides we haven't bought this it on draft right now at the at at Honey's so we haven't bottled it yet I'm going to go upstate and follow it like in about a week but this is basically draft 14th century and talk what's the what's the one with the bubbles, I'll get in the Bible is the Bubble Run is basically it's a sparkling honey wine with apple cranberry Cherry these are tart cherries from upstate I hope the little sumac and rose hips

and whether or not I'm having issues with sumac that one that's called night ice so it's got to be like that why would why do people want to make these things that require a turbo is in Hercules

I mean I don't know intensely honey on this right

a lot of the more subtle features what I like about this is weewee fermentis and used red oak used hope it has like a little bit of a red wine like leftover in the wood so that comes out gives it a little body in a little color 07 campaign for it's called like white writings like a most offencive thing and because like they're printing the f-bombs on the street on paper but called white girl Rose

who is it that's the guys name and I'm going to come down there and it's at 93 Scott Avenue, this address is on there and we're open every day but he can walk across Flushing Hospital in the hospital but oh my God she started the doctor actually was good but the ER at self was like

yeah well welcome to America progression so that's basically like our natural honey wine which by the way will be rough put in a small bottle but I had is a classic meat like I want a real need

should tell him we're doing this down the street I mean really close and I think people would expect that a real meeting quotes would be this kind of like a single variety honey right because that's my mentality right like the whole thing about Grapevine is a single grape from a specific location and time and who is like carried through to its art of essence that doesn't really line up with my making exactly because I would I really feel like

there is a big difference between say Wildflower honey in like a apple blossom honey right there different when you format them out the weed it they will be different but in the real world in the history of me making website I don't really believe in any kind of real life is too often to sit around any of this cuz it's it's the whole thing very sore that track and vague but what one thing is for sure it's at someone to make a Mead and it would just be honey is probably unlikely it doesn't have enough tannin even the one that you just had is

It's Made It Oak right that's where you get that which is not even mention and I can't pronounce I don't know somewhere last week the people who you know there's a public perception around me that it's white and it's European and it comes from Vikings and all this kind of stuff but the truth is is like the people who drink Mead are Africans and Indians and Chinese

Stark so they're decent Ethiopian one here in the US or not they serve it doesn't have guessed really so you have to if you're going to have a Ethiopian honey wine and needs to have this Urban it or else you're just getting like a kind of another process to me that says it's made in a traditional Ethiopian style but it needs to be on the label as well or No Deal it I mean Jamaica has a whole distilled honey wine culture the super interesting China I mean it's at in China you know that also there's a huge a lot of my influence right now as I'm reading a lot of kind of Asian are books because they are they use wine like to preserve the herbs in a way that we don't do in the European culture so much so like a chrysanthemum wine or chamomile

made it basically illegal to have any medical claims on any kind of alcohol right so ironically like the Los Angeles Winery that survive through prohibition did so by making medicinal products and the people just drinking to get drunk but like I'm making Elderberry wine Elderberry is like incredible immune supporting antiviral thing and you will work if you drink the wine but I'm not allowed to say that I can put on the label I can't even talk about it but I think something more like a me that you would have had in the old days so this is his called floralia you could pick different herbs this is a forge Juniper lavender and margarine

delicious to create Oculus so you know there's like so you would use this in place of like a dolin Blanc or and place it like a Coqui Americano or some like this I should probably introduce my partner Charlie Mark so I think he's met you say to the stage with you at some point but he's running the cocktail program in the front of the house so he takes some kind of wonderful cocktails this are after all he's doing like a flip with this right now which I had to teach me what that was for the date drinks and drinks like

it's like a honey vermouth to be a little bit more alcoholic I'm starting to make things more specifically for cocktails because there is so much opportunity like you all this weird stuff right we'll take something like this or the black currant wine which is I think the last one year she can try like you know you know small poor or over there ice or something or you can like this one makes a really beautiful Negroni if you wanted like do a named kind of classic then that's what we've been making down there

and the wheels have this really nice herb program for the roof that sounds like a lot of the Exotic herbs and experimenting with for the medes cuz we really have to broaden our feel we use in the cocktail suit so that since around so I like there's a lemon mint marjoram that I'm really done a marigold cir lemon mint Marigold at like they'll use for a what are your thoughts on herbs that are like now considered toxic in large quantities but like people still use them in the day like Rue or what's tansy's and all these other things difficult on specific word

you know you'd have to use huge amounts of them before you got ill and many cases if you heat the toxins go away it's a little tricky with the alcohol because I have to get Federal permission is if everything I use so there's a list of generally recognized as safe right now but that list itself in Clute was created in the forties and is horrible like it's like you can put Pennyroyal herbalist very carefully Pennyroyal recognize a spicebush you can't lindera benzoin notgrass I don't you go to the bar right so I'm pretty suspicious of that list in general it's not an accurate list was made a long time ago and presentable something like a Elderberry which is on the list in some cases it's like really depends on how you use it if using the stems the berries or whatever is a really great article in the Nordic Food Lab

about Elderberry where they really try and tease apart the chemistry that those guys are y'all doing that lot of their lot of their stuff shut up Brian kestenbaum

all right

this is from Alison for Brian Wright unusual Quest my husband Brian is a fan of cooking issues and listen to all the time turning 40 on July 14th Bastille Day French makes no sense and it's not like in his birthday every year to coincide with the French stuff no good no good any chance to give him a shout out on the show or Samsung Sound Recording I can add to collection

it was what should I say

turning 40 happy 40th birthday brother

from cooking issues crew and Jackie molecules would say hi if he was here but he's off on tour in Europe thinking about your 40th birthday what do you say Nastasia happy birthday happy birthday Brian many people listen to the show how to know if your back is hurting in the rest of the questions I would have asked I have to do to do

send Crimson which is just a this is a kind of a classic black currant meat which is been made for a long time that that is a kind of classic

so that's also dryer than I thought I was going to do not use that mr. Just get rid of all the sugar with some Jan and carbonate the hell out of it very good visit does a lot that you can do with this it's a it's a great thing of Jim from PDT was telling me because of what I need is for him a few years ago I was like he's going to love this is great for cocktail but I think you can get a black currant flavor out of the distilled version and a cheaper price we just want that but this looks nicer change it color Sweet Pea thing these days but those those

butterflies that you a euphemism for female parts.

Mycelium I'm always going to keep it a sin in a cocktail like someone who serves you a basic cocktail should get beaten about the head I'll tell you this if you want to stabilize blue aura colors and Cocktails do a pre shake before you paid with a wife which is basic and I found that for some reason even when you shift a cocktail acidic afterwards you'll maintain more of the blue or side of anthocyanins and you would what about like a gelatin without is that also basic enough I just I just like that it changes colors used to do this with the butterfly tea we were going to do

an absent service where we're going to do like a pond on water and then we were going to keep that one neutral so beyond the blue side and then drop it into acidulated alcohol and then it would go red as it hits the alcohol right when I had so I was like I can't just do a visual gimmick this is crap if not what I'm about and two bars are dark and so like this is more of a cafe brunch timey outside thank you. I mean I've done the color changed really stable with those colors is whipped cream so like eight like I've done really really with a lot of the flower dark dark blue with creams that are like those things I have only stabilize them with I should have flower itself will stabilize it because it's got like if you just put in the flour and don't get rid of all the solid just got enough kind of celebrity there but you could

to do like an agar fluid gel or something to get it to get it to go so I didn't get to any of my questions about spoilage in sous-vide bag is also question on flavors melding together with would have been good but I'm going to try to get Harold McGee to write in a call in on that he's still in Spain being held against pain because he's a master you working on that for you know I have a question for him I don't know why but everyone maker will guarantee tell you this that when you take the wine out of the barrel and you put it in the bottle it tastes like shit for like however long it feels like doing that for like at least two or three weeks even if it tastes good in the barrel and then we'll come back and it it's like it's getting used to the new container like whatever oxygen got hit in the eulogy I don't know what happened

temperature dependent on each and every situation do you have to rack off the leading freaking quickly like beer speeds orange juice do a hard patch get it like 55

I take it to the want the alcohol I'm take so sugar but I mean to add additional 15.5% alcohol and feel like orange juice by itself would be like in any way so I wanted a closer to 8 % so I added enough to get it up to 15 in like a week or what temperature in a wine cooler 55. Yeah it was oxygen-starved I put I put an air lock on it from the get-go but not even open like and then I threw them in a wine cooler and still fit finished monster fast

I don't know why and I was pitching at the normal pitch rates you know what I mean but you know cuz I used to using

but yeah protein in neutral least I was using is relatively neutral yeah I know I mean I mean invite everybody come by if you come by and give you guys a tasting room is called Honeys and it's at 93 Scott Avenue it's on the other side of flushing from the L train opened it 5 right now and until night time or can I wait and I would like a few more Instagram followers now say that I've had me that I enjoy anastacio

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