Cooking Issues Transcript

Episode 237: Jonny Hunter Comes to Town

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12 12 12 10 forget network call me questions to 718-497-2128 at 718-497-2128 we are joined today not only as usual with Nastassja to hammer Lopez his does hate Jack Jackie molecules Ensley in the booth Sajak but we have

from the Museum of food and drink Sam say hello and straight from madtown from the from the underground the variety of different underground collect is that they have in Madison Wisconsin the one the only Johnny Hunter

I have a story to tell

so I have definitive proof that Kim Gordon is a huge fan of cooking issues last time I was on the show someone called in and asked who her favorite band is and isotonic use couple months ago

someone text me yo Kim Gordon is at the butcher shop it's one of our businesses am I really so I can run over there

she just left someone in one of our employees that didn't recognize her and told her she could use the bathroom

stop at our shop took a picture in front of it put it on Instagram so I think that like she listens the shop cuz he likes she stopped in like Indiana Madison Wisconsin Fargo

Fargo yeah I mean like if I was going to be in Madison I would definitely stop by your establishment so I may not think has anything to do and she was listening when I said sake with until she stopped by this is verifiable like if this ever mention come to the come to The Moffat event you were doing Johnny event on Thursday at mofad looking at the effects of pH on cooking which is everything pretty much I don't think there's much that we do have some specific things that we're doing that would be kind of interesting preservation so much of that is

yeah yeah and that's doing the like salamis in the fermented vegetables and the musos and stuff like that it's all pH base so you know I think so it was so where you going to have two or three demonstrations people going to try things people get I I hope that I think the thing that's cool about the techniques will shine is that people can take a lot of these things and do them at home and like my big secret reveal is going to be how to make black garlic in 3 days

pay the museum to listen to it and then afterwards maybe we can reveal the secret on the show if we haven't already put a different flavor from the one that that is not what I think there's some flavor differences but I think if you were blind taste test variations of black garlic he would not be able to tell ours vs.

what are you going to be able to tell that there was a difference or you wouldn't be able to choose which one is which you would be able to choose I think there's so many variations in what black garlic does cuz the process is 40 days at 140° there's a lot of things that are going to affect how the flavor develops over the amount of time

that being said I think our process has some differences just cuz I've tried it so much but I don't think anyone could tell the difference to call the first color on the air

unfortunately I wish I had prepared a simple syrup now I'm thinking about doing things that are really delicate like basil and cilantro and stuff like that doing like a blank. So having a pot of Life symbol and then I'll do a quick flash light surrounded by a water bath and then do a pot of water blanch real quick drop the herbs into the cold symbol the time

and then I'll bring up the room temp and let them ride for little bit to try to refuse not have particulate matter in the simple like a huge want it like at 8 you should go a little taste like basil but it won't taste like what you are thinking fresh basil taste like the Curious cook has a whole section on the Curious cook the original book is not a print that you can I think look at it online as a whole thing about Mickey trying to make pesto and his travails and implants from Johnny go ahead so what are things that we do a lot is this stems from the herbs and Blanche centrifuge who really flavorful

yeah you your oils don't turn at all if you if you are loyal to your simple syrups don't turn it all if you blend it wasn't when the crowd right so what you're trying to do the whole point here right is I didn't know it work with Sarah I've done with what you're looking at is trying to shoot the the polyphenol oxidase enzymes in the head right and so you can you can shoot them in the head temporarily by

like freezing with liquid nitrogen you can do it by dehydrating the herb right which is why I like mint tea stays clean right you can but that also change the flavor freeze drying you can do it by you can do it by blanching which Alters the flavor right and you can the problem with freezing it without blanching it is that they when it thaws if it's exposed to oxygen again in the enzymes can kick back into high gear because the freezing doesn't actually destroy the enzymes right that if you mixed if you if you took that stuff in Blended in with oil and then spot it out there's no water in the oil and what happens there is the polyphenol oxidase enzymes can operate in a complete lack of oil stays nice and green and doesn't turn brown and getting Brown flavors I knew that but apparently what I'm being told by Johnny take the sugar content

write me what what I'm just learning now is that apparently yeah high sugar concentrations the enzymes also can't work in a super high sugar concentration but I would keep it as high as possible that likes to have sex which simple to give it to give it a shot if you have an accent you have access to liquid nitrogen make a flavored able to work but if if I if you didn't have access to

liquid nitrogen or really to a good like a centrifuge I would the problem is you can't really pass freaking I would I would make a a I would take extremely high proof ethanol do a quick blend in high proof ethanol strain it through a cheesecloth and then and then dissolve that stuff into a syrup like a really high high high brick syrup and it may be we keep meeting and then maybe it's going to keep at the problem is is that you're not it's going to be difficult to get a high quantity verbs into a recipe like that because you're going to like a multi-step process versus just like freezing and and putting it in especially if you don't have a center food then you can just

mean you could probably even I don't know you can probably do have you tried blending it directly without the first freeze into a super rich simple Johnny and spitting it out or whatever would work especially if it's not the leaves are you destroying the stamps making basil although although purple basil real purple like fully purple basil the colors awesome I've never tried to keep it though but I just try getting the richest simple you can it's a pain in the ass to strain Ridge simple

I mean it's like it's real pain in the behind simple syrup that you see if bars are like sitting out on the table there like very Brown try this but they're but they're trying to make it probably some other way when you get a very rich simple simple

when the urban to it and then let it sit in the freezer for like 3 days

yeah and that the matter the matter should the simple syrup the very rich simple won't freeze in the freezer will just get real sluggish and maybe eventually the stuff will settle to the bottom because it's still going to be a liquid be like a clarification lyrics simple I wonder whether it would settle for the bottom or whether the stuff of floated you'll probably get some separation I don't know what it work I think it's a good message to see how they like and it's not going to like that it's not going to completely stop everything you in the same way that Linus Pauling didn't not die because he took all kind of vitamin C forever but you know it will I wouldn't I wouldn't use in any of your syrups any of the sulphur-based antioxidants cuz I think they know you can smell and taste those in pretty small concentrations if you're not like dosing it exactly right B A score

that's good thanks again cuz it's got such a low flavor profile compared to most acids that like I just I literally just like I like old-school kitchen it I like pinching this, I'm a pinches of kind of guy sorbic acid was definitely pinch and I was going for the house the actual flavor molecules are transmitted in oil and I was thinking maybe you find the oil and bring them out of the Earth and

that would help with extracting what if you want to make an herbal oil like you can make an herbal oil right and then you just use an emulsifier like I would use like the one that we always use which is the ticaloid and which is a mixture of gum arabic in San Tan and then you could put that into into simple but I would do that right before other words boil because it doesn't have water in it is going to be much more stable on the color in the flavor then once you then put that back into a liquid base of the herb better I don't really think that's a no I don't think it'll take a look at it I've been wrong so many times in my life like you know

that but I I don't think it will help but you know what running side-by-side like just a couple different emulsifier do a side-by-side and then tweet us back and let us know or call back and let us know what happened to call you're on the air so I just came back from Mexico City with the next to Maddock nice are you give me like a rundown of like you know tips with how you use it right now you called earlier right or I did exactly what we're talking about when you come back we can talk about next station at the museum event in 2 days Johnny and I so like you know what you do is you soak

are cooking soaked traditionally corn in an alkaline and calcium rich environment and then makes the corn somewhat softer also turns the outside of the Corn into what amounts to a hydrocolloid salad Masa which way you make tortillas out of has that you know the characteristic texture which is why you can make with just corn you can make awesome fell in calcium and you can make awesome tortillas problem is is extremely difficult to grind next melize corn in a modern kitchen because to use like a Cuisinart aerobic who takes too much water ya indeed wet Grinders like I've been using recently which we could talk about later if you want they don't handles a Dota 2 stiff as as Masa blenders get choked up on it regular Grinders sorry Grant like a Mills i flour Mills are freaking useless for it and so it's actually kind of very difficult process to do at home so there's this thing called next to Matt

which is frankly of getting very Robo version of the universally de tested Colombian made Corona cornmeal which is just like a tattoo or like a hyper low-quality iron casting like Ryan wheel that just you know grinds cornerback like that the Coronas I hate them do you like them and squeeze never use them about 30 steps up one because it's got a big Robo motor on it and to the plates are a little bit better but the plates on the next Ematic still aren't

they don't come out of the factory

working you know what I mean like me look at them like they're they're they're really rough so they're not designed for kind of the American mentality of I'm going to spend a lot of money on a nice piece of equipment is so it should work it's it's more like you have to grind those grind Wheels into submission so like mine if you look at mine now it's literally a monster wheel when you look at it when you're looking at like a normal grindstone like for regular Western like for weed herb dry corner or what not like the grooves that are in the in the grindstone like they know how to go up there grooves in at grindstone should alternate interaction and they form like shears like scissors that that as you go like sheer instead of crushing share this stuff right and is Gru's also active transport from the stuff today from the inside to the outside so here you want the outside to basically almost not have any groups like you want to be pretty flat because the Mazda is is like partially sheer the beginning but we leave

smashed into a little piece of because you wanted almost be like a stone Metate and Mano grinding grinding it out and the cleaners needs to be pretty fine because the Moss is not supposed to be course on the find a setting and you just won't work that way cuz I think if you're looking at your place you can see kind of big holes on the outside of the where the two grindstones me see you got to run that sucker and your first three times 4 times that you make Masa you going to have to run it through 23 times just text her still not going to be right but keep bearing down on that freaking place and then as you go it's just you looking at it's going to be smoother and smoother around the periphery of the stones as they true themselves to each other and become a kind of better made it and then your mom said just can't get better better but you're really tightening that oh yeah okay through a second time and make it was pretty tough to really get it through oh yeah it is so wouldn't you just really bear down on it oh yeah

nixtamatic to the point where the wheel stops for more than about 10 seconds that's what I did like a month ago when I was making nut butter with it at 2 months ago and I was making nut butter with it and I I like added I told I think I told you I added sugar to the sugar to the nuts when you're when you're Brian and it just like totally sees the machine I really had a nuclear like pop like you know like like a mushroom cloud of smoke smell behind it and it turned off it came back on there actually were testing ever doing maximization at the eggs at the Museum thing and you know it until like we're going to see like probably tomorrow we're going to run the tests on it to see whether it still has still has its quavo's left whether it's still has enough huevos to grind Masa and we're hoping it does have a greater Formosa

no but I mean like you I like like what kind of plate would you put it through this like the time he was died I don't know if you tried it a couple times works pretty well I'm pretty happy with it first and then ran it through you probably save yourself some time I've never owned a real meat grinder be like the motor is powerful enough to really get like a pretty smooth texture in oil when you're done for the end of the night and yet you know it don't work the KitchenAid want so we're supposed to do you know what's even worse than that is there Flour Mill ever use that no it's a wretched system

their pasta Shooters pretty terrible as well it's based on their meat grinder attachments is going to be like we know back when I was teaching at the SDI and like my impression of a real meat grinder is meat wants to go in one and come out the other that was not my impression with the KitchenAid bus come back up in your face it's not what you want me to do you think it's because of Choke points too small at the end of the die or just cuz it's just bad I think the Machinery itself is like too much movement and it's not like it's bending and it's not like it's not like two pieces of metal with a powerful motor a KitchenAid one is where you have to really make sure you cut the stuff into strips strips you like and then you have to speak

the fit into the in between the auger in the tube assembly without like having too much compression right and you need to basically parfrey's everything which one kind of messes up your texture if it's like a little bit Frozen that's the only way I've been able to use my KitchenAid grinder people who have never used a real meat grinder you know you got like the the standing makes the standing grinder that can do to get a 300 lb in like four minutes and this would save us so much time yeah what do you need to scrap a friend of mine who works at a restaurant who is like get it I can't use kitchen I got to borrow yours Lem one I think might be a 10-pound so we were teaching they're going to start teaching sausage stuffing

the $80 version of the 5 lb stuffer that they sell it like Grizzly really bad welds on that thing stuff sausage find the summer I'm giving that to go for a wedding present welder so shity that the NSF people I don't know how the hell they sell it it's basically like you know it it's it's own its own back slot because it's always holding some sweet sweet business from your last time around you know what I mean yeah the inspectors come in and just you're going to kill somebody you know that even answer a question or we just talked about this Mattox

so now should we take a quick break and come back or no

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turn of the first tattoo is a meeting to Oru a familiar with the eating tools I have a chat room comment tu tu tutu party comment a lot of good stuff happening right now about back slop is the comment and then more more stars was the coming from the chat room all right well from Jordan a friend of a friend of the program for actually no actual friend like you know the sheep-like recently wrote Alex two packs tacobook which way I think we discussed that last week she had a question in a tattoo artist friend of mine uses Citrus as a canvas for fine artwork made with a tattoo gun 1/2

is this the same lady. Amanda nope nope nope nope in the work since obviously it rots and what do you think you're going to make it back in the day I just want a video taped it riding and then just had like sequences of like shots or time-lapse like I would have just taken like pictures of it like as it rotted and then like blowing them up like super big on the wall because remember like with art just like multiple like multiplying things and like you know putting big things up on the wall equals awesome but let's think of take this problem seriously who is with citrus

you can't preserve Citrus in alcohol without leaching the color like that's the thing like you think you could preserve it like in alcohol and apparently she wants to eventually do it in resin from wood preserving things like fruit in resin is you need to get rid of the water to preserve it in resin like all those things that you say that like flowers and resin is that they've all been dehydrated first and the problem with dehydrating something as large as a piece of citrus is that it has to you have to get it to shrink slowly I have successfully dried whole Citrus and you go to the market has dried lemons and dried Citrus but they're small and dark brown or not like you know looking like it a tattoo which could be its own thing but

you could also mean you could try replacing a large portion of the water with glycerin which is how they preserve a lot of flowers or do a glycerin soap and then as a dehydrated doesn't lose as much volume but I think you're going to have problems you can you can preserve it in simple syrup right by changing the Constitution simple syrup you're still going to get some color bleed you could do it with old school you can try formalin like the way that they do it but that's kind of gross here's what I think you should try to do I think you should freeze dry it

did the colors going to look more pastel but it will retain its exact shape then what you can do is you could after you freeze dry it you can paint it with a like a resin coat on the outside and that should be brighten the colors substantially over the kind of weird pastel note that you get on the freeze-drying problem with freeze drying large thing is it's not what food people normally do you have to go to like a like a taxidermist specialist who specializes in freeze-drying kind of like animals and other died after freeze drying we need diet diet mean tattoo in or Diet I would have been diet like a color you can paint something you can probably spray it or dip it and it's just a very light porous and you move the water what's your move the water it's fragile like you can break so you going to want to see it right away or in case it's something kind of

in case it's something so it doesn't kind of crack open but I guess you could tie it but me I thought the whole point was to preserve it as it was when it was tattooed in which case we want diet right my wrong about this guy's going to take a call if we have a caller

hi hi hi this is Chris from the green zone mentioned to you on I think Instagram that I had some Turkish coffee tips for you to get back into it my birthday is still just a pile of coffee grounds I haven't cleaned it out so it's still still set up to do it because I think I mentioned last time I've kind of his hand pulverizing and none of that coffee Mills I had we're really making a fire at find enough kind of grind to do the turkey my problem is I can't get I can't get a really good phone I can get it to rise kind of once but I can't get it to rise again and have nots I've not had something where I was like I think I should have before the show my feeling is anything that has

super long pedigree right and I tasted good Turkish coffee right but I haven't made that cut for myself yet where I'm like

you know what I mean I was in Beirut for 3 weeks over Christmas and New Year and I've nothing to do at home and make Turkish coffee and I was really craving my favorite customer stumbles I search YouTube for some videos and it's actually a video where in Turkish she tells you how he makes it and his method is quite different everything else I've seen and I tried it for myself and you know amazingly it works basically use way more coffee than you think you need and then Stir It Up a little bit of hot water to it and finally to make a paste of a coffee and then add more hot water again so tall as much as you can get it and then put that on the flame and since the water's already hot starts swimming very very soon but it creates is really thick dense foam and I can send you the video later but it really works and it's so counter to every other Turkish coffee mug that I've seen

and he's using a rapid Flame or is he doing with the moderated like either with a Play-Doh with sand

exactly opposite of everything that like we're told is what makes it good what looks Sinister video cuz like I'm a here's what I want to have happened I want to make some Turkish coffee and say yeah I think you'll get that and it took me you know once I saw how he did it took me several times to get it but now I'm just really consistent described it in English yeah yeah cuz it said I need like as long as the hands to figure out everything when you can't understand what it took a saying as long as you can see what their hands are doing you know what I mean

so Dave we're running kind of tight but I have to get this Moffat add in the show can I can I take 60 seconds here or less actually for the sad especially since it has exactly doesn't it so it's this is Peter Kim the executive director of Mossad the Museum of food and drink New York City's first food Museum exhibits you can eat that was founded by Dave Arnold the host of cooking issues here on Heritage Radio Network we just opened up mofad lab our new Gallery space in Brooklyn where we are currently showing flavor making it in Faking It flavored ice into the untold story of the 25 billion dollar flavor industry raising questions about what natural and artificial really mean and at mofad lab you can taste and smell the exhibits flavor tablets deliver tastings of vanilla a new mommy and the piano like smell since let you compose over half a million different flavors so come on by and visit mofad lab we're located at 62 Bayard Street near McCarren Park

do the family show and no I can hear him almost laughing with the Stasi were you here trying to make him laugh the whole time a couple weeks ago on the show Peter was on and I told him like he tried to make me crack up during the thing I just can't do it cuz I'm Not a Human Being I don't respond to things like that you know what I mean and so Stars I guess trying to show her mettle as a as a ruiner of his good time I think you're so close I didn't even know half way through I didn't even know Stars was there during the taping and I can hear his voice change to that pre laughing Peter voice

we have to get the bleep out the fu for the count for the podcast points fun good point now

I can't believe that yeah and I heard him laughing like you're some other things so not really piano like the smell sense

Street Fighter so like like arcade games went just like when I was a kid arcade games were like maybe more of the Mario Kart generation so our kids were a little yeah you like pizza places that have arcade games arcade over here and Williamsburg is it good yeah it's great you should go to the museum of arcade games are considered they have a section arcade game is pretty cool

arcade game like smell Seth Street Fighter Mortal Kombat Booker and Dax and

and of course they just walked up to the damn sand and Sullivan try to see if they could push every button at once and I I looked over and I to see a wall of light like like every light lighting up I was like yep yep my kids are here for a welder friend of ours is it from James and build a friend of ours in Boston has graciously agreed to build us a fire pit / Pig machine / Grill to take care of our warming and cooking needs I hear we've only got a scrap metal Bayson R specs I wanted to toothpick your minds to give him the proper direction below a few questions what's a good shape and size we were thinking 6 ft long 3 ft wide and 2 ft deep on legs and what's the best height for those

we want to have a grill top attachment and a spit with a shelf that we could Mount to a motor any recommended amount of motor to any recommendations on adding a shelf that are there any models listed online that you could use as a visual reference to go there right now I hate almost all commercial that crappy commercial rotisserie is I'm sure there's a very good actual commercial rotisserie but whenever I built rotisserie is I use I use actual like gear Motors like Boudin brand like a sea like fractional horsepower gear Motors the problem with most rotisserie Motors is there there's a play in the gears so that when the shaft goes over its dead center point cuz you're never going to have your meat on their properly it goes and moves into the next position where the gears aren't driving anymore and then over time. Just it sucks for rotisserie because it means that if your spit jobs not perfect there's like there's like a force on your meat every time is it spins around and it's just it just crap

and you can see it accelerate up the one side of the curve and fall down the other I hate it hate it you real gear motor is the way to go on the air and lastly is there a place that you know of where we could purchase a motor out okay I just think of all the heartwarming I want to keep it away from them pretty well from the heat which means

either and I connect the shaft make a shaft long and Let It Bleed off enough heat before it gets to the shop custom built in that could put the motor

a little bit farther away from the fire I like I like the I like the flat spade drive on a on a rotisserie thing so you have like you keep it mainly round seat if you keep it mainly with rotisserie is is like you wanted to go in and out really quickly you don't want to have to fuss around with it so you want very easy to engage on the one side and then you want to drop it basically into its bearing on the other side without having a lot of a lot of messing around the best ones I've used I think of the flat drive 1 second time someone's that Mark has Mark Mark Ladner always kind of wanted design one that you can just drop in like sprocket style and had to go that would be nice so be sick Spitz most bit suck they really must bits is really really suck pretty hard

I don't like doing things that are multiple pieces of equipment you know I don't have a customs rotisserie built I would want it to be set up so that it was like really good heat dispersion not so that I can also Grill and smoke on it so you're the anti Alton Brown Taskmaster I'm in for like major pieces of cooking equipment to Johnny Johnny is where your basic theory is a listen to go get yourself a warehouse yourself a warehouse and then

fill it with large pieces of single-use equipment warehouse God converted things to rotisserie before I converted like my salamander to rotisserie I've built rotisserie are you okay with doing rotisserie over over in normal Grill are you backfired only

I'm okay / normal girl but I do think the backfire is is like a more even cooking

meet the thing on a rotisserie is if you're going to do it all depends on what you going to do if you're going to do really really fast kind of style rotisserie like very small almost like a bob style rotisserie you can go old-school and just do the hand turning so those they always use flat spiral round skewers and little triangular shaped V grooves that they they sit in and then you just not really rotisserie it's just like turn turn turn turn turn for turn to done out right or you can have like a faster a kind of small rotisserie the problem with doing a large thing like a pig in a rotisserie situation on over a fire where is it that you get a lot of flare ups and although that can have the flavored kind of hard to regulate is Johnny says he'll get back to us so we can talk more about this next time I get to the Earth next time the other questions we got to say one thing about Moffat on the way out but one thing I say is here's the problem with trying to create something that big

list of the time you're going to want to do smaller things for you and your family like it's like if you're it's a big difference cooking for you're going to want to be able to cook for like 20 30 people 40 people with a party great but it's a lot different when you're only cooking for one or two especially when you're using natural wooden charcoals and stuff like that cuz the amount of wood or charcoal that you're going to have to use the fire your thing off if it's huge it's going to be astronomical amount of time it's going to take to get a big honking machine up to cooking cuz those big machines are built on being like kind of big and so like I would definitely invest at least in a smaller area that can be heated on its own that you can cook smaller amount of food for smaller groups of people and then allow yourself a monster area where you can go completely 8 for larger think what do you think Johnny professionally

oh that's different cuz it's a custom welded smoker box just for you no parties ever like I don't know I mean to ask true I thought about that right back and let us know what the intended application for chicken is going to be a beneficial yeah yeah mean not for a restaurant but yeah moffatsd.org it's on Thursday from 6:30 to 8:30 it looks like there's about six tickets left so I'm going to do I'm probably going to do my old school trick which is off the blog so it's old of nixtamalize why I got a new technique with

using baking soda to do a clear dulce de leche syrup which is just done with milk in a pressure cooker is pretty cool and Sam and has decide graciously made the lie a eggs which we haven't been a long time since the last time we did the McGee course at the SEI clear live pick up we're going to do the inverse lutefisk lutefisk alright thanks for listening to this program on Heritage Radio Network. Org you can find all of our archive programs on our website where is podcast in the iTunes Store by searching Heritage Radio Network you can like us on Facebook and follow us on Twitter at Heritage underscore radio you can email us questions at any time I think so at Heritage Radio Network. Org Heritage Radio network is a nonprofit organization to donate and become a member visit our website today thanks for listening