Cooking Issues Transcript

Episode 227: Cider Week Takeover!

this program has been brought to you by side a week New York City happening November 6th through 15th 2015 for more information check out cider week NYC. Com from Deer sessions radio you listening to Heritage Radio Network broadcasting live from Bushwick Brooklyn if you like this program visit Heritage Radio Network. Org for thousands more hello and an action would have you talked about saying that she's a fan of for a freaking yeah

Jackie at that Roberto's kitchen is really nice of her to get in there that's the problem right now because we have with us to this week is cider week here in intensity and music popular in that in the UK right Perry's was going nuts in France John Reynolds hear from the Finger Lakes from

spiders and their in Hudson New York

and we're here to talk about hopefully we'll get some actual questions later if not I'm sure I'll just rip through some at the end or whatever but you call your question hopefully a related question weight that 718-497-2128 now listen it is my feeling that anyone who has the time interest inclination and takes the care to make a cider necessarily excited related question but let's see if it's cider or not

hey Dave this is Jonathan from Tempe Arizona it's not Apple Country but if it's a question I ran into it because I just bought a Anova circulator and I started doing some steaks and I ran into the problem with exact problem that you made the tears off to work I just can't get a good enough crust and a cast iron pan right on a regular residential burner but I do have a feel so I was curious if I should try to maybe put the baking Steel on the stove or maybe just heated in the oven shirt at for an hour to anything

is there any reason to you the bacon still over the cast iron and granted it'll be a while before I can make another kitchen kitchen purchase such as a Sears also so just wondering good thoughts about baking Steel versus cast iron is like that

552 the regular residential oven on yourself before you people over for steak but the thing is I would try and throw the steaks on one side of the thing and then flip it and hit a different section of your baking I mean I think like to Total well you can put it in 5:50 then crank your burners throw it on your put the steak on and then flip it and put it over on the other side

difficult because the service of the surface areas where there is a concavity at the meat surface that's a recipe for huge strap what's a huge problems

I'm not now I know that like our good friend Kenji lopez-alt doesn't believe that pre searing is necessary but here's here's here's where I think he's incorrect about this

pre searing reduces the amount of searing time you have to do at the end to get x amount of crust so if you do a procedure on cast iron before you do your low temp cooking until down 42 low temp cooking instead of taking 2 and 1/2 minutes to reach a certain Crush level on this site on the outside of the steak it will only take like a minute and a half to greatly increase our current technology that if you put the same crust on it by doing post your only you won't be able to tell the difference between the two steaks and there will be more moisture loss which again is something we can argue about that I don't care I don't care

yeah I'm going to say next time I'll just do one priesthood will not freeze here to see the results and then go from there another another thing you can do is you can feel like I let the meat rest longer for out of the bag and put it in a little bit of water to chill it down before you sear it and then you can enter into an ice bath for 15 minutes I mean I'm in general anti that because I run a bunch of tests and less kind of reabsorption of

I said I don't really care about the most people when we do the side-by-side taste test they prefer the meat that has allowed to gradually reduce in temperature so I'm a fan of just like pulling out of the circulator like if you're going to do a hard hard by the circulator like like in for at least like the first 15 or so 20 like leave it on the counter and then if you want to chill even further you can put it into regular and then and then you can put a monstrously Hartz ear on the outside of it still not over cooking inside like that you know what I mean like a cold beef

back on cooking issues and tell us how it went all right well we actually have two calls so one is an apple question what is it? Call Stanley we're up in the Finger Lakes Wine Country and then planted trees starting about 15 years ago mainly pair an apple tree so we've made all our neighbors in the Finger Lakes hate us you know because I think it's great Bland and basically three years ago we got a commercial license these are all natural fermentations are ciders there's no finding no filtering we don't take anything away we don't add anything and we make we make for

is it when you were talking about Perry one of them is a Perry I did not bring it today because we are sold out we sell out quick but it is a Stihl Perry so it's quite different than most of the English or French Perry Spencer is no carbonation Geneva halfway between Geneva in Ithaca so I'm like 25 minutes from Geneva so and I actually worked at The X station at Geneva so I worked where is sort of the Noah's Ark of apples have no idea what we're talking about Geneva New York is the mother is like the mothership of apples in this country line

I guess best known for going to Kazakhstan and bringing a whole bunch of wild types bag and so they could talk more about that for sex before we basically so they don't get lost in in history and that is true that they went not only to Kazakhstan until she can stand but they went to China for collection trips and then basically the theory is that the Apple server originates in Central Asia and it's sort of the Centerpoint of the you know silk trade route in you have trade from China you know to the Middle East and so forth and eventually these apples sort of go do you know well to to where they grow now in Europe and places like that it's best that you asked obviously people bring them over settlers but it is amazing place it is your tax dollars at work

so the public different ones all in the same Orchard we can talk about visiting give me to talk about tastings an apple Mecca and pilgrimages hopefully the New York City Brooklyn in the wine industry restaurants spin also but also worked with winemakers in Oregon in Germany during Harvest and so forth like that that really informed a lot of the kind of Trans Am

InFocus subsider making for me after I left kind of the wine world to focus on something that was a little bit more indigenous so to speak to where I'm living trying to stay rooted in the Hudson Valley in New York state exploring has so much point between recovering a past in history that side is involved with your in the United States but also been exploring New Frontiers informed by everything from new understandings of flavors in farming and that kind of thing so yeah I've been working up there now where this year actually tonight officially is the first commercial release of The Cider been pretty sick for several years the directive is generally focused on a want of deterring tear that is

prove to be a little bit of a naive exploratory element in my case because just the access to certain apples if not being your own farmer growing your own fruit this is incredibly difficult if you're keeping focus on specific varieties in a specific level of quality as much as we can but right now things of last year when we have here is all from Columbia County fruit is another following through a single Orchard fruit and this coming year for 2015 it's going to be a dinner program altogether but with a focus on heirloom varieties that are from North America or some side of right he's as well but hopefully with a focus on when the number of Apple varieties for bottling as opposed to large-blend trying to kind of focus on what these individual characteristics are for the specific variety so call Earl it gets into the spider called Exciter collar one question first Apple questions they patient

hi David Harlow right so I'm trying to track down the elusive ashmead's kernel and I was wondering if you have any tips for fighting. In New York City and or if you have any substitutions you'd recommend for your liquid intelligence rescue clothes you don't know I really like ashmead's kernel because it's a high sugar high acid extremely rich kind of a apple there are people who make hard cider with it but it's actually I think probably a very challenging Apple to make a hard cider with just because of its high acid content so I think you probably need it goes into Blends now it's a straight varietal would almost have to put it through malolactic fermentation to reduce the acidity

Alvin and I think that's what people do when they generally make it as a stray parietal but it's up is an amazing blend in there and there's probably some in this so I know there's some ash me incident this site I hadn't had I known you want them I would have brought them down to the city for Saturday in New Hampshire poverty Lane Orchards grows ashmead's for commercial sale they ship via Baldor with other distributor here in New York City and they are probably working overtime now because it's like you know whether they'll take calls now but they provide it and with them

thanks for the recipes that I liked and I think there's nothing even though you're using it in cocktail work and you want to preserve that kind of like Rich acid note of ashmead's Kernel like a process of right away I mean like we've ordered the cases from poverty lanes and they come in and some knucklehead will put the case down in Uno in the in a hot basement next to a dishwasher and then they're toasted inside of a day there their they're there a shadow of their former self they've lost their richness they lost their punch do you know they've they start when the senescence

to cure in a good environment can you really increase a lot of that richness and complexity of Labor quite a bit you know find is golden russet different has a lot of similar kind of profile I would throw Cox Orange Pippin which I don't know in the city but it probably is slightly easier but it's another you know famous English Apple acid and very aromatic but it may also be slightly you don't really see a lot of cops here because he and like a good Cox is not is not crunchy it's more of a crumbly apple and Americans is very sad to say can't appreciate the crumbly texture of like an old fashioned a few places in this country where you can really grow them welcoming finger likes this one deception

it's also I don't know how sensitive all apples are to it but I was in the brogdale nastase and I broke into a section where they were testing Cox on a bunch of different routes. Different piece of different route on Cox I don't know but it was definitely it I know it was sensitive that's the only one I've ever going to compare the tasting on Beyond a certain height that acceptable to everything and disease wise insect and you know and that's the sort of why even in England and ripping them out and replacing with sore with more modern varieties just for that reason they sedate you know it's not not economically viable leaving for them in the motherland do you do growing for for eating more

Define disheartening that you have to be like for the seems like it's impossible to get Good early-season Apples because they're always harvested too early because they go soft almost instantly and so that they're not lying like lodi's are transparent here because they're like there's not good that's too early I mean sort of earliest ones are like for eating or say demmons russet which is another item. Other English apple and that one has like a pear drop sort of flavor it's not very high and acids but we also use it inside your blind and that's really for us right at the beginning of September so I don't mess with any apples generally there August ripening cuz I do they're they're very short season very short-lived and I think the flavor is on most of those people I buy them from occasionally but like they harvested when they're like baseballs used to like starchy nasty

yes yes

you'll get your question sir

you still there

baby drops phone he'll come back I'll be back I'll be back whenever you get back get back cuz in the meantime going to start opening some side or two to taste it would taste your first cans

what stars like cider the one thing in the world maybe that she like she like cider and cider makers don't actually carry bottle opener that's so so since I came over on the subway in my bottles sort of a little fool I'm a little worried that I may have the same time as long as it's not

LOL Lil technical difficulty with that

I will I will let the beverage director I guess you restaurant manager exactly that's why I shouldn't be involved and this is a sort of heirloom American heirloom fruit which is a different than most of her other ones we generally use a more true cider fruit English and French a Bittersweet some bitter Sharps but these are also our table so it's fuggles can golden Cascade and a unknown Noble hop in a star's she loves cider not a Hotspur I am jackets jacket get the other plant in the hot family

and essentially with the Hops that we pick them are we drive them we freeze the Hops cuz they're they're ready in August or early September we from integrate our oh yeah grapes are we from empty apples when it when they're completely done fermenting it's some point I make a blend of the ciders and I put the Hops whole cone in The Cider this was about five and a half days I pull it back out and then actually this got bottle conditioned also it's at another few months in the bottle and basically this is the product today I was just it's not it's not obviously my brain is on fries not bitter and you know it sexy when you dry hop you're getting more the aromatics of the Hops out in any better that's in this is probably more from the apples and less to do with the Hops themselves so Johnny probably said this but my

find space for a second ferment the Hops with the apples or was it all confused after the fact and then I put a blend together from from some different tanks I wanted and then I add the Hop whole cone after fermentation is complete this this particular one is just by taste these Renfro just about five and a half days I pull back out and you know that we bottle condition so basically you know this is what you get this product other than I do make a black currant one sometimes that that we sort of put something else in other than Apples or pears and I will say they're the reason we made this is you know everyone needs a Gateway and this is our Gateway cider for beer drinkers nice I like that I like that to make sure the color I got on are you on

oh yeah okay that's a question you should know because you can't very good A little bit of I-10 and bitterness art of the Hop Aroma maybe that's what bounce up a very good I thought you think so and I think I've I'm a lover with higher acid beverages when I was in the wine will it was champagne and Riesling in Bruner Realty in Iran that was my world and so it's decided if aliens that way so there's a broad range of what's acceptable but I think this has great balance especially cuz I didn't know it to ya

give me energy

keeping cider

mythics What specifically the question

so it's specifically specifically the question is I've been you know doing my own keeping friends over the years for the last couple years and I can't seem to get it down like a science obviously it is but I can't seem to get it to come out like evenly every single time and I know that there are a lot of places that do it on a regular basis you know like industrially I think so I figured someone's got to know something about this you know that I'm missing and I was wondering because if I know it's involving similar you know hydrocolloid type stuff was wondering if there's like a synergistic effect with another hydrocolloid you know cuz it's one with socks if there's anything we can do to like you know get it get it evened out but I will say where they do that in France Wiki thing is or what's going on so keeping basically is a process where you sort of what they called The Brown CAP which is packed hands and things like that

come up and you have some of the nitrogen and in vitamins and things like that that are in the Jews settle down and you essentially take out the liquid in between so you're basically taking cider and starving it of the things that yeast need to ferment quickly and and maybe finish the fermentation so then basically you get a very slow fermentation if it's done right and you can actually get it to stop and have you no residual sugar in it and not have to use other processes sort of do it is a natural way to do it but even in France and parts of England where they do it it is in a science and they don't make it happen all the time and I will say varieties usually play a big role in at the bitter-sweets generally make it easier to do and also the temperature is a huge Factor it has to be cold enough to make it happen and not too cold but not too

call true true and it was just some amount of luck it truly is a little bit of luck and I mean I know the biggest producer in the US that I know that's doing keeping on a commercial level is Kevin from EZ Orchard which is out in the west coast and he it's a hit or miss thing for him he sometimes get partial keep something to get spoiled kids and sometimes it just doesn't happen any faster permits or do with a natural way I don't know what they are exactly did you make some attitudes which I would never involve myself with Darren to like help the Kiva long because the beauty of the key to the idea last we need whole situation into kind of this great balance between failing and not failing and it's also important various methods in one of those keeping methods is this oxidative quality which is also something you have to kind of Monitor and keeping balance with both temperature and air exposure after the fact and so forth because

and I don't personally don't do cubes cuz I don't enjoy some cute spiders of hell of a lot like that's not my goal to make any kind of oxidative style Insider highly oxidized product now it does happen and there's many reasons we can discuss why that's the case but I can speak to help you be successful about the solids content of the juice before its fermented is that made the texture of the apples and do they squirt to the press and could put more sediment in your juice the necessary for that keep cuz the weight of those things as I understand it can cause like a difficulty in the true separation of pectin to the top and other said to the bottom of the keys and I also don't make any Keef ciders although in the past when I was experimenting I did make you know small 5 and 10 gallon lots of keep cider and

but I added nothing and I would get on I'm is a rough estimate probably half of them to work and the other half didn't and you know I was using true bitter-sweets and things like that which I'm at least told help some if he's in straight up dessert fruit it's sometimes harder to make it work like you mentioned Bittersweet and so forth. At work a little better because they do 10 some of them at least 10 have a lower nutrient levels of pajamas that are successful aren't necessarily that high in acidity or they don't have it since of acidity in the pallet start with a hard page to begin with because you have an oxidized juice that you're leaving a little bit open to the elements more likely to be inviting to certain bacteria that you may not want later on

but it's also one of these beautiful things that was discovered by accident but people just put in Juice outside cuz I needed a place to store it and it happened to be cold and the Chateau Briand developed and they had to salvage what was there and figure this whole method out over a number of years so delicious mistakes science perspective I appreciate you know the natural you know amazingness of the apples but like I would be probably adding like pecking at the last race or something like an oval shape or something like that and I was thinking from y'all hydrocolloid perspective I know there are a lot of synergistic hydrocolloid interactions I was wondering if there's something I could just like you know if I can get it without that yet

yeah I had it does seem to be without the pack of methyl Ester if you're saying or we have okay so I don't know what's going to happen to actually separate The Cider press yet showing or anti is long as you then and we don't have severe severe winners

so I juice with twist regular my first cider that I did I did not treat it at all with any sort of a juice early with pectinase you strip a lot of flavor out of the juice and so that's why a lot of times for cocktails where I need a clear juice for carbonation like that I have to use extremely high flavored varieties like an ashmead because if you're hitting it with and then stripping the solids out that early like they get too thin like him a lot of apples can survive it from a flavor standpoint okay

I this time I juice because mark from Del posto gave nastassia an expert juicer and stassi is like to see the size of my freaking kitchen witch is which is a centrifical basket juicer radically higher solids content in this juice and so it's really cool so I don't know like how much of a breakdown was can be completely only time will tell as Journey with journey front hair bands

some juice and hit it with he didn't want you to sign for Effective but you were able to do it successfully with taking meth last race you still there even

what if you were able to successfully do to do it by you pretreat of the apples are you treated that you crushed it then treated the crush with pectin meth last race and then and then pressed it yeah so you're only treating you dig music streaming across the protector meth last race especially if your Transit time is not too high you're only really affecting like a percentage of the of the juice before of the products and so you could probably member you know if you like that method continue to use that method only probably in the increasingly difficult to sort so like my tree is not selling anymore because men from novozymes only sell it 25 L Tales which is like you know five Orchards worth of freaking enzyme or so you might want to might want to try

just adding some slurry to it like some extra or like using a different juicing technique for some of that just to boost your solid content on it because I don't think it detect meth last race is doing much besides that is also it does strip a little bit of flavor right so when you're doing that you can you lose a little bit of solids instead of having them at a slower rate so it's just certain extent which I think you kind of run the risk of maybe losing a little bit of your final flavor products

did there is no there is no Effect one thing don't affect the rest in any sort of cooking really you know what I mean like everything that you do friends on the second batch I I met me know I've got your the apples for a couple weeks too and also I froze a portion of them because I needed to because they were a damaged then when I was harvesting because I don't want to get up my tree is a standard apple trees the tallest freaking apple tree I've ever had literally had to beat the fruit off of the top of the tree I don't have a ladder they can get up to the top of the tree and so a lot of the stuff was a damaged I couldn't use it right away so I was like I like I like a brown bag which is kind of cool it kind of tastes good actually but it was too many variables for me to actually describe to the collar like what's going on because it's now it's partially frozen it was like making a slurry who the hell knows frozen fruit has ice crystals in the water will stay frozen while the juice in the nectar releases in Yucatan

the higher concentration of flavored Brandy and I've done a bunch of years ago I did a bunch of side-by-sides on purposely freezing apples to simulate like like post off post initial freeze Harvest of like certain varieties like developing some interesting flavors with apples that are that were just simply like artificially Frozen and then allowed to fall before they were for the reduced through is good to help you know maybe that'll help you know stabilize I'm the ones that aren't quite you know, together let us know let us know what happens like in however many weeks or whatever it takes let us know let us know what happens if I'm always curious about these things

by the way speaking of apple trees all the lower branches are basically that's weird they produce fruit this year was an unbelievable I think for a lot of people like fruit year in in our area like the fifth the tree we just went bananas I don't know whether it's because we had a hard winter or what the tree just totally 8 like made so many freaking apples perfect hear me last year in New York state was a short crop year for lot of a lot of regions so you know when the apple trees have all that kind of energy and the end of pollination season this year was perfect I mean we had no rain and warm days to Blossom's route and end-user lazy and Primadonna live if it's raining and things like that and some of the other pollinators so I think it was just a you know a Confluence of all these things you know like crap last year for most people so you know you're here

pretty much guaranteed a big crop and just the pollination was just perfect the weather so I mean for us we had the biggest crowd we've ever had before we get done

host who steals the Klingons Dodgers World rise at me

pistachio are we doing are we doing a show from Bass Pro next week Bass Pro people is opening up in Bridgeport and we're going to be so awesome hunting I get to the questions I had to I had to really get to like how to blanch I remove unnecessary to get into it today this is often 2014 Harvest just to ride a 60% Northern spy 40% Newtown Pippin nice North American Airlines

don't let the Virginians tell you that the most polluted area in in the country it's actual land where the tree the Children's Park so that's a good combination are really polluted area of this was permitted very slowly I've been kind of a migratory Gypsy of a cider maker for a while so mean a lot to talk about all the yeast come in on the fruits and there's a whole other element of the environment that you're producing and could being contributing factor to those kinds of fermentation so until there was a little bit more of a settled Homestead for the cidery so to speak I was kind of using a mix of the two this staged and Vac

about six six or seven weeks total and then age of that further 5 and 1/2 months it's methode champenoise or bottle-conditioned and bitter bottle of Route 5 and 1/2 6 months now I see what you mean by you like acid but here's the thing like a very characteristic brightness in the Finish know I find it like how many years would you guys say we're into the cider kind of resurgence here in in the US 5-6 when I say that I mean you know I remember a time when

we lost a country they were chasing the same folks that were buying woodchuck and I think it's bit no offense to the woodchuck Corporation but the people who would go out like you guys are doing talking to people like talk about serious Drinkers and hook serious when I call like I mean like people who hate their drinks seriously like a hook into into cider so that that I've only sensed Maybe

the lower half a decade or something like this instalar twas and all them started bottling beside her because it was clearly money to be made which is kind of laughable from people like John and I think but smarter than that kind of threat you know you had very very high TSH week apples you might have to like greater appreciation understanding of what by the way is like our Birthright especially here in this part of the country right

we weren't born with it but it it belongs to us right and we should have it it's like super important but I feel like a lot of people who are trying to do a good job we're producing kind of unbalanced ciders like like to listen to Justin kind of things he will talk about it is the adjusting point to me like when I when I told him that I was going to start making catching ideas are to these very specific locales is how they athletically identify this spider

but I've trying to pinpoint a lot of the Normandy and Brittany seider Zaroff try most of them Keith at all but you know definitely that a little bit lower than the English sweeter lower acid style things writing in the British reviews of quality side of that require a low-level to City to be to be a good side or so yeah it's a maybe it's a cultural difference maybe it's because we're in the world where were used to wines that have i acidity or getting into Worlds of cocktails that have a greater balance of acidity in bitter notes in those kinds of things so I think it's awesome that we ran around what we can explore it a little bit more freely than being beholden to like a longer deeper history of certain traditions

water kind of climate they had so it's easier for them to translate what in their head is a cider into a part in a bottle when we need to talk more about this but we are partial products again say where we can get them say the names of your of your places and then one fortunately will have to continue this like in to Twitter to know and thanks thanks for having us blackduck cidery you know basically we're pair and a cider and lean more to a Spanish style I believe James Brown approve are ciders for their Funk and nice some select places in Manhattan and Brooklyn to wash sale of course the great while sale

Orchard Street in the Lower East Side has it and I just want to give a shout out to all the cider drinkers on Staten Island because no one ever gives him props all two of them out there the population so you got tonight at once right there beside her is pretty limited right now will be open to lower Manhattan in in an orchard Orchard Street in New York City and prompto quick for their chef the food over look at it, and the pastries Rebecca

Richard Smith listening to this program on Heritage Radio Network. Org you can find all of our archive programs on our website where is podcast in the iTunes Store by searching Heritage Radio Network you can like us on Facebook and follow us on Twitter at Heritage underscore radio you can email us questions at any time at info at Heritage Radio Network. Org Heritage Radio network is a nonprofit organization to donate and become a member visit our website today thanks for listening