Cooking Issues Transcript

Episode 215: Harold McGee!

today's program is brought to you by Heritage Foods USA the nation's largest distributor of Heritage breed pigs and turkeys for more information visit Heritage Foods USA. Com what's up this is Jack Hensley host of full service radio you're listening to Heritage Radio Network broadcasting live from Bushwick Brooklyn if you like this show visit Heritage Radio Network. Ford 4000

but also in the studio we have special guests we have Jackie from California to 718-497-2128 that's 718-497-2128 hey Google find molecules are Jackie Tran bartender back to be survived just barely. That's a hard living group of folk it certainly is

experience anything to report they have a new culinary science program so I was finding out about that and then came down to the city to catch up on what's Happening Here Close to food science is more like your alley the study of delicious fries do to make food for people I C A C industrial industrial factories are some questions to see we have here. So we answer the question on root beer answer the question on root beer

I don't think so I'm sorry if I would be interested to call today about running a month ago because I'm so behind or two as well as to the cause I got a couple of main concerns other than that the recipe I developed herbs roots and spices and generates a lot of sediment what's the best way to clarify this so I won't have major phone issues I'm also working with space constraints to safely sanitize a corny keg pour in the boiling soda base then seal it and keep it at room temperature what I need is sulfite it to ensure the safe I would run it through a cold play the chilling ensure carbonation any other concerns I should be Bear Aware about when setting up a system I'm looking to have root beer and sparkling water on tap and rotating a seasonal soda on the third line

you are talking about doing a hot fill and not to be confused with massages friend Phil Wright and I think that's going to work fine as long as the East is killed the CO2 lines not going to bring yeast into it as long as you get no back contamination of backflow you shouldn't have any problem with the hot feel just wait for it to be super cold before you carbonated now anyone anyone anyone you know that stuff is boiled port in boiling tap it immediately flip it upside down and let it boil the top of the thing before it goes and then if possible blow a little bit of stuff through the tubes to make sure the to sanitize where the stuff is still hot to kill everything ain't nothing that kills you going to grow in the soda what's going to happen is you're going to get yeast and other sorts

kind of things are just make it either either reducing residual sugar increase its alcohol content or make it nasty right nasty horrific buddy I know what you want ya root beer ain't your funky fruity nasty kind of kind of Beverage can you make a cocktail called funky pretty nasty got a call her whenever you're ready I'll like like first of all anything out of a keg like that you're going to have more foaming than you would like a bottle service but also all those barks not only person clear would you be totally clear mean no particles would you could do their number of filtration methods or even probably with a clarification step if you had to but that's not going to get rid of the kind of surf

sack of crap that's in barks and roots that causes things to kind of foam up on you so it's like it's just you're inherently foamy kind of situation the good news is is that root beer is a relatively low carbonation foamy product anyway that's why it's root beer and not root IPA are you were on the air

I heard last week that Harold McGee might be on and I had a question that I thought he could perhaps answer I've been hearing a lot of my food lately with these tears all and I was reading on cooking specifically the section on I think it's heterocyclic amines that are created during the hearing process or high temperature cooking you're the first time first person has ever mentioned heterocyclic amines on the show and so I believe you deserve a prize beard foods with something other than antioxidants like a drink or something or is it just fits it's not that important

so of course there really isn't good scientific information about a question like that we can only sort of extrapolate from the knowledge that means are formed in high temperature processing of foods and they seem not to be good for us and so you probably want to minimize intake and then also I'm not sure that antioxidants per se or going to be helpful because these toxins are toxic not by oxidizing things by reacting with with important molecules like DNA and RNA but I think what it does make sense to do is to eat that food with as you said there's a good drink with all kinds of complicated other materials in it but also vegetables and fruits which have all kinds of stuff that we really don't know about but that is probably going to be there if not to counteract the activity of some

in like a recycling can means then at least dilute them so that they're less likely to cause problems but I think the bottom line just having a meal with lots of different elements to it along with your wonderfully seared food is the is the way to go glass of red wine yeah yeah which it may or may not do wonders for your heart but it does wonders for yourself so much for calling in

thank you we didn't answer the question as well get to it keep llegar kind of in a warm State and then put it through a tubes in a ice bath so I think it was right about that but let's find out my sleep I had a question about a recipe on piecing together I wanted to make spaghetti and red sauce by the way spaghetti I had a line on that no more, today although I had some people write me in I want to make a spaghetti and have you used to get ready you know what it is though right

having a cake so like you know that you know that you like them things it like you can take a potato and turn it to light a long strip or I can make shreds so if you if you were to take that make it less expensive shaped like an oversized pencil sharpener that could let's say take a cucumber sized thing or even maybe even a daikon so yeah and you can quit it and it turns said stick shaped into strips and so someone's like those the kind of like noodles maybe I could use it like a noodle and so instead of just calling them kind of threads are filaments decided to say they are spaghetti which in fact they're not the same shape of spaghetti spaghetti spaghetti

not what shape of the cross section

yeah it's round and round does a veggetti produce round things to do they produce spaghetti could ever produce spaghetti because spaghetti is not merely pasta in a long form people spaghetti has a freaking cross-section but someone in their in their Infinite Wisdom decided that is it just like a spaghetti spaghetti squash which by the way I think used as a spaghet whatever I'm not going to get into it cuz everyone here like spaghetti squash I'm surrounded by spaghetti squash lovers But a G

a veggetti the non-brand name of veggetti is spiralizer and so people have written a lot of people actually is turned out of written cookbooks spiralizing vegetables because the veggetti people want to eat let them use their name cuz they don't want to smoke weed veggetti don't want to become to clean extra spiralizers all right but you never use one any thoughts I need to go out and get one wow I'm sure someone listen to this would be more than happy to send a veggetti sponsor yet I don't know I don't know what the flavors of a tequila sunrise Tequila Sunrise

rent it looks like it is sunrise or sunset sunrise sunrise

because sunrises are not there like bluish gray Sunrise I don't think that would be incredibly delicious though with the creme Yvette I think in general I think I'm sure somebody likes it do you like Fruity Pebbles Fruity Pebble anyways like it tastes just like that but somehow Fruity Pebbles at least has Crunch and I'm not fat I'm saying

okay so I think it takes you to call it a tequila sunset times going to bed so that okay how do you think the alcohol in the acidity of the OJ would affect the amount of agar you would need to add two liquids as long as you're not going above like like 15 20% ABV you might need to add an extra egg or maybe but not but any technically you should technically wouldn't because whatever doesn't matter because I wouldn't worry about it too much because I wouldn't put the alcohol level that high anyway one thing I will say is you cannot have something that's a tie high alcohol and boil and sufficiently hydrate the agar so you will need to hydrate the agar in the juice / whatever water-based started cold toilet let it simmer for awhile for a couple of minutes then you going to want to temper the alcohol into that mix not the other way around because you don't want to get pre-ejaculation

I know you want to keep it warm enough to put it through whatever you see or whatever it is you're using to make the noodles than the rules are easy to you know you might want to switch or a tad like a softener a good texturizer to it like it's not specifically something that people use for it but like i l b g or any sort of like a softening saying is going to make it a little more spaghetti like

right you don't talk about these things a little more like food on but I would follow you know any of them are still puts out the color thing it's like a compilation of every Chef recipes on hydrocolloid he still puts it out just check and see what kind of what happened on an anti griddle hello Harold McGee is an interloper on anti-griddle somewhat unsuccessfully

by the way was at tales of the cocktail properties in which holds like something like you know it's like a frat party should get that thing was like how many gallons of you say a lot of lot of lot of lot of cocktail big freaking out what's it called porthole know I was like I was like hold up in the in the closet as I as I want to be an anti griddle for Millennia way back in the day if I made it for my impression when he made it for illenium when they were opening because I guess they didn't have Atlanta

because at that time which battle 5e like you know that you can go using liquid nitrogen like it like it had no cost and like you know Ferran had like you know 5 doors of it and you know in my cannoli Danny Garcia was like you know it's like yeah whatever turn on the tap and walk away from it like you know like California five years ago with water before you guys went totally totally dry on but I think he wanted some of those effects without having to have liquid nitrogen so they had to go to Liz and effect a flat plate that shows things down and a big thing that the grant used to do as he used to make like creme on glaze pour it on the things take a stick into it and make little creme anglaise lollipops lollipops

would work for Rapid infusion the same way as an easy canister vent on a larger scale I've heard most of it is safe to try

is it safe

well whether or not safe to try depends on how fast your pressure cooker can inject the excess pressure and how much CO2 you put in how much dry ice you put into it I'm going to go ahead and say no plus also you can't modify a pressure cooker to withstand much more than about twenty PSI because the side gaskets will blow out there there's three or four safety features on every pressure cooker and I wouldn't know you're not going to get it above by 20 psi and you're pulling I got to go back and look at my charger and liquid intelligence to find out but in an in an in an EC you getting like 60 70 80 PS I get a corny keg and you know you can use CO2 you just have to wait for the flash off but it'll work no much like nitrous we have to wait for the flash that doesn't have any pettiness left when it's done but I will go corny Keg menu 55 gallons at a time and you can get a corny keg still for you know not very much waiting for you guys to modify the pressure cooker no right to be worried about freezing up in the

in the valve just kind of blocking it so you I wouldn't mess with vent one way or the other on more than one occasion you know what it's not pleasant but I'm not a player I would highly recommend you do not do that thing yeah yeah and there's no way it's not a good idea and I'd be willing to figure out a way that I thought it would be safe except for the fact that I don't also don't think we'll be affected because you're not able to get the pressure higher a weird question to email to Heritage just now Reagan Queens who says Harold sounds like the nicest guy in the planet but does he have a freaky side low

what he described you as you are you're freaky or side

I'm not going to be Tails it did you see the freaky side that the place that comes out yeah we know we got to take you to Vegas then I'll know then stays and yeah it didn't say who was on the air that's for sure but in fact I will say this and start as you can back me up and he is in fact the super nice fellow that you hear it on the radio that that's like legitimately

that's legitimately The Herald that you will that you will get if you meet him in the real life book should be called enemies of quality we're still working on a t-shirt quality likes like food or beverage just you know like a neglectful because they're not looking out after quality I mean that's like imagine buying a loaf of crusty bread and then putting it in the fridge or plastic bag plastic bags

but like what about you do you like these bags of preventing things are no things on the counter like in San Francisco you can just keep anything just like on the counter right so you can but that means I mean it's not as humid there as it is here right now but it is like 50 60% which means that the loaf of bread is going to get out of the crust is going to suffer with time

but there's nothing you can do about that really except just keep keep the bread as optimally as possible for the whole loaf and then Crispin up in the oven either bread in a timely fashion. That is advisable to these days when people make these gigantic you know like 4 lb loaves it's hard to do that but that's what I like it when people show quarters you know what are your thoughts on bread boxes

in my experience they're great for if you if you have a kitchen where there's a lot of traffic in and out of it's nice to kind of keep it out of the way but I like to just take a a paper bag cut cut one part of the loaf with that face down on a cutting board and then just kind of put a bag paper bag Loosely over the top and it doesn't look as nice as a bread box but I think it does about the same Redbox right there

try to me

hello Alfred Navajo churro games you're likely to hear it at Fairway put your account for the rise of factory farming USA exists to promote genetic diversity small Family Farms. Food is honored to represent a network of family Farmers artisanal producers work in measurable gift to biodiversity the meat we celebrate whether it's Heritage turkey Japanese steaks Berkshire pork or Navajo churro lamb chops is the righteous from healthy animals of sound genetics

pursue their natural instinct to to self at taste better as we like to say you have to eat them to save them visit Russia. It's Foods usa.com for more information you got to Slit their throats to save them and welcome back to cooking issues like a jack you want to get the kerr-mcgee maybe you can say something nice about the radio station give me a script

alright nice all right Sam Wright saying hi guys I'm trying to create mother of vinegar Just for kicks factors affect the size speed and appearance of the mothers formation by the way I saw on a video and this is my new thing this is amazing for those aren't allowed to curse like let's say you're around small children are in a place this guy had an explosion happen right next to him in a video you know the kind of videos I watch and he goes I think I'm using a couple times but either in front of the kids which is genius anyway excetera in particular will a mother be able to form in a small glass vial small glass vial isn't the

environment because vinegar mother's develop at the at the vinegar are interface and if there isn't a lot of space up there if there is a lot of surface area it's going to take a lot longer so I would suggest a broader net vessel of some kind of a seated bacteria enjoy of a moderate temperature not too cool not too warm like 20 Celsius 70 years old Fahrenheit so we can keep it in a place like that that helps you want a cheesecloth the top of it so that you don't get the vinegar to be vinegar flies and what else you got to get the alcohol content write something I didn't get a chance to look into but my bet is that white wine or some

like that would be would work faster than red because your red wine has all those phenolic there probably to some extent antibacterial and you might have to overcome that has done the study right have you ever had the people who like we had we made a kombucha and the kombucha is she keeps one's got a lot of alcohol in it cuz the way we made it and you tasted near like you have no alcohol the good it's all turned in like a Sido back to hit like a baseball bat ever had that happen but I can imagine so I'm cool with it tasted like you know do you like heavy vinegar beers you like a rodenbach Grand Cru and all that stuff can you pound a whole hyper-vigilant I like the medium grade likes medium amounts of vinegar like rodent rodenbach style but not the straight vinegar suck once I don't know

yeah it depends on how much I mean look a little bit like a half and then in the right circumstances

you like that drinking vinegars like yeah like a indie record his nice yeah I like those two been up to a molecule Jackie nice but what about Ralph's beer I'm not a fan

you know I didn't know I do like it you can take a whole one so good with the smoke beer delicious why do they serve it with a smoked cheese and maybe smoke a cigar with it smoke in the circumstances in Queens over the weekend what's Queens I was like oh my God she like died or something someone said there's an imposter I was like yeah I was over eating in Jackson Heights I was like damn to the helicopter bring her there he's like you know cuz this across the river other than for this show

it's like

you can say that closer to microphone to everyone.

I love the molecules man Pedro how do you think you pronounce a p a i v a

Portuguese

I don't take my name is Pedro from husband I've never been if you're out there Portugal if you're out there let me see your pants McGee would like to go to Portugal one of you needs to reach into your wallet and like figure out some sort of conference that you're going to fly him over there so you can hang out and eat all of your delicious this Serenity cheese and pound a whole boatload of port and if you need some chump Named Dave to come to well you know I hate that we know all the better I mean Jack Jack the bartender if you like some Port right side port didn't mean that work we're still working on it it's getting there

I think it's this one and I would like to submit a question about gin and tonic here we go ready Jack of the bar you will also weigh in on this one since you do this every dang day except for the past we can beat me your Tales of cocktail gin is now a big Trend in Portugal and is really easy to buy a decent gin and a decent tonic most people claim to know how to serve the best ENT in the for each gen there is a perfect serve

let's discuss this more the Spanish Trend right the big goblets dialed you like the big goblets tell if it's time to 7 on it and casually so I never tried any other side of the Atlantic starting in the glass no one uses flutes ours are closer with small fish tank for a goldfish when we first put and swirly ice in a glass of Kool-Aid then we flavor it with botanics junipers at the borens lemonade and strawberries then pour the Jan and finally the time to carefully to keep the gas of the tonic what you can't if there's ice in a big butt face. Let me tell you something about about bubbles my friend like the vast majority of bubbles are lost at the surface of the glass right at the surface so what if

does for you it actually doesn't do a good job of a percent of all tools to your nose which is why real champagne freaks like like our good friend that starts with a hammer Lopez prefer to drink their champagne is a lot of glass my right yeah cuz he has better and in fact a lot of people a lot of fun you sent to me like they're Champagnes too warm for my taste and wide open because they actually wanted on the bubbles down because I let him taste the wine more about you depends a lot on the champagne I just have this wonderful experience of eight a twenty-five-year-old Veuve Clicquot sword from a humongous Bible it had no bubbles left whatsoever but it was delicious in like no other champagne I've ever had but if it's a young one and and really bubbly and really sparkly actually likes oops I mean because you can enjoy the the visual spectacle as well as the

the taste and smell and and and spurts as we would say Reams fast he did his studies on the traditional cubes which we use for cocktails and flutes and his I believe said maybe we should do white wine glasses is a good compromise you read those studies how was Yosemite it was bracing it was very high that's part of what made it so wonderful cuz otherwise he was kind of caramelly ready you know all those it was rich but also had a nice backbone how far had the in the absence of massive amounts of CO2 how far had the yeastie ready go

oxidized and Sherry like I'm sure you like it was just really rich it was dark to and when I first thought I thought this doesn't look good but but it was beautiful. It the owner of the restaurant which was celebrating its 25th anniversary bought it when the restaurant open for this occasion horse Eye Jack Forsyth in the picture attached which I don't have is one of the results for the bloom Jim the question is is it okay to serve it as we do or are we missing something important they give your time and thank you for the great program Pedro PS as you see I do see it what should be the first steps into the sous vide world do you recommend an emerging emergent circulator particular for CV and as a home cook what should I pay attention to

they're all they're all going to work not sure about in Portugal like what the like which ones are good for for your throat they're all they're all going to work just get it you know you can afford it going to be happy with I like the professional ones but those are still like eight hundred bucks but I start to me like I know I can beat on him pretty hard but I've had experience with all the Lesser price ones as well and they're they're all they're all going to work for you there's so much good stuff out there on the internet I would go to ask chefsteps you know I want one of those places I have the rudiments of a low temperature cooking primer on the cooking issues which is still available and fortunately apparently can't buy Cialis on our block anymore Paul finally got rid of the Cialis ads but I don't know how that Got Hijacked in your gin and tonics this way well

it also know I mean if you like them then you like them like and then it's good I mean like I mean there are certain things that are an Abomination right so like if you were like what I really want to do is take Pepsi-Cola with my wife saw someone do this in Shanghai wants if you want to take Pepsi-Cola and mix it with Petra's regardless if you want to take even something that might pass is pictures right so you'll maybe it's like you know you know not me of some sort of closer like related do you know why

that's a mistake you're making an error there you know what I mean you know I would say even frankly like alternating between your glass of Pepsi and Ted Cruz is a horrible mistake because the phosphoric acid just not going to play nicely with the wine and the flavors of the Polar going to ride right over it and then know that what I would practice first if you're going to do that with with some Yellow Tail right size and Yellow Tail and Pepsi fine you can get a decent send don't let me see you a little bit different because the flavors are going to be working with they're all going to be good I tend to want the purest essence of a gin and tonic possible which means it's going to start with a gym that I like Tanqueray and I'm going to use only quinine sulfate sugar and lime juice it we know we clarify because I'm looking for a particular thing a highly carbonated

extremely crisp extremely dry pure gin and tonic with a bunch of no no extraneous crap that's what I'm interested in is that make me write yes not kidding that's the way I want to do it that's still cool I set for myself but yeah we don't all have to have that goal write there's honor in lightly carbonated face balls actually I have to say that unless there's so much ice like any drink is handed to you with the exception of an old an old fashioned and even in that case because you can drink an old fashioned quickly if you so desire like any drink should be small enough that it can be consumed by whoever's consuming it in under under 5 to 10 minutes May really under 2 minutes really like right away is like at the average consumer is taking much longer than like 10 or 15 minutes to drink a sitting there dying I don't care what kind of drink it is it's dying but the shake and drink it's warming up too much they could sister Drake it's warming up to

stupid sister drink on a rock that looting too much if it's God forbid you know at all Drake in a bunch of ice and just turn into a watery mess you know it if I could change the way the drinking World Works in general is going this way in London other place is it would be smaller drinks drunk more quickly. You might actually make it through the question say can you believe that you believe that you could speak to you a few months back at the Berkeley campus tour no luck finding the Vizio remember ziga ziga the sturgeon spine never use that Harold these to rip the spine I was there right now for Kubiak and things like that and I've never never played with it myself and I went to eye what's that what's that we what's the neighborhood brighten the Russian thing and she tried to pull her

like I said basically they just handed us like a a chunk of Frozen sturgeon that had a little bit of spinal cord and so we didn't really have enough to like rip out the whole spinal cord and do the do the stuff over there any other special about a sturgeons spinal cord is it the spinal cord itself I think it is anything special. Sturgeon spinal cord that you know of its Blackness that's really all I know about it is spinal cord material from like brain material just shorter length axons in the brain you know I should have prepared for this but my collection from Chris Cosentino in San Francisco used to sell a tuna spine tuna backbone that there is the spinal cord itself which is tissue like the brain it's it's nerve cells but then there's this

gelatinous cartilaginous material which is sort of the shock absorber that prevents the nervous tissue from suffering and I think it's that that talk to shoot that you are actually yeah I used to serve that I love that stuff kind of like when it's like super kind of clean and see watery how do you like to do it today today just gave it to you and you kind of broke it open yourself and yeah yeah yeah I've only ever served it raw like so we would take one spine clean off the vertebrae so it was like like like you know wipe clean like you put it in one of those like flesh eating

containers not talking about it I didn't do that so please don't hear about it and then we scoop fresh ones that were like off these kind of the gross media car cuz it and then put them on like they were fresh when we did it because he's not able to find it extremely difficult to get fresh especially because of how do you pronounce a critical endangered species of cities that I pronounce a c i t e s anyway you don't want to slaughter the last surgeon and I think probably not your question regarding temperature maintenance will be spending some time this summer with an Italian style that is not going to me Moscow and I literally so it can only be Italian style Style Style what you think about Italian style things

she can't see what she gave you up on Italian style she likes Italian Italian whatever even though whatever Italian style outdoor brick BBQ in Sardinia you didn't even want to go I'd like to go for sure among many other things any thoughts on the cook

Steven the classic one that can be roasted whole is there is a coutinho style that but they're minuscule pigs like how much those things way you ever have one of those never done one myself beef but yeah there's a few pounds

I don't know dude what do you want to do this like a super slow roast on it's going to be hard to regulate if you don't do it a lot you know what I mean it's one of those things where you need to do it a lot temperature regulation in one of those big is all about just do you want to build the temperature up over the course of hours and hours and hours and then wait for it to get down to a point that you're going to be okay to throw it in and then let it ride down on something like that you're not going to re-fire if it's a big retain heat masonry oven you're not going to re-fire during the roast cuz you'll nuke off the outside of the skin I wouldn't even I would even maybe protect the pig for the first part of the thing and it was nice going to be like leaves or some crap but I was like you were bearing in the ground all those things start you just want to start it at like kind of like the maximum and then let it ride down with you 3DS I don't think you're not going to be maintaining temperature in any active sense inside of a inside of a retained heat masonry oven would you would you think so Harold

I know you're with it you know to know how it's going to behave so 1st and I kind of see how does a solution what you can do is you can if you if you if you could muster it cuz you can do it in my trash bags you could do the whole thing low temp right and then just throw it in a flaming hot one to crisp up the skin and it'll be as delicious as it can be though those you've heard me right before know that I am somewhat suspicious of Whole Hog or any whole animal cookery because

lyrics it is not possible to cook the tenderloin of a pig I've seen that they're not being nasty either pasty or dry when it's either going to be pasty nasty or dry nasty and have the rest of the pig cooked properly and so the solution to that recipe to extraordinary young and then it bathes itself in its own kind of fat as it goes and then whatever is also can cook really quickly but you know barring that and let you know what the what you have to do is pack up that dry me and mixed with a good meat so that that's what the BBQ guys like what's-his-name Ed why is it named out of my head to the big hole hog eye down Ed Mitchell & Mitchell why why why why why why what you should do is Rip all of the stuff out and cook it the way it wants to be cooking and somehow reassemble it into a pig and crisp the skin of that would be like that would be amazing right

oh my God we have left so I'm going to get you and your circulator questions next week on the cooking issues however before we sign out and I thank a from the bar

it is so weird questions so if you didn't hear the question and you're welcome back to be extended with Harold McGee in actuality I don't want to lie to you worth we're taping this before the initial thinks we're just starting now but we figured we pack it on at the end so I'm going to pretend it and stassi had to leave for a minute even though she actually hasn't arrived yet first time I've ever been an in the studio early as this ever happened 100% yes

Dear Dave Nastasia and Jackie molecules and Harold and a? Because you sent him back when I said there's only a 50% chance of her on the cape are there any hard-and-fast rules for making caramel candies I'm interested in making dairy-free caramel and I'm curious if there is simply a fat sugar ratio that is required or something more complicated is going on I E G protein stabilize and motion how can I make something like an almond milk Aaron thanks so much Tyler Simmons from UC Davis PSE spoiled me I can't seem to find any other podcasts that are both as entertaining and educational stores keep up the good work with thanks thanks for the kind words and I know the herald has done this kind of caramel you done with straight sugar caramelization done a lot of work ever work in this kind of stuff I have not let me not to have worked with standard caramel candies and with this kind of thing it seems to me that what you do is you go into the kitchen and you give it a shot when you see what happens and you try to adapt so I imagine it would behave very much like an ordinary milk or dairy

but I'm not sure except for me again like somehow I didn't read it thoroughly enough because I was rushing in and I and I thought we were dealing with Marvis Frazier sugar thing on a Sienna sometimes that happens to you like you resend you like I got it and making him and he's going to get I didn't read those kind of a different kind of candy altogether my one my one thing is you know that pacing like the way it Browns the way it undergoes kind of you know Browning reactions I don't know what you're going to get the same effect oh I bet you won't. In fact probably the protein content of the almond milk is lower than ordinary milk coming that would be my guess anyway but that's why you play with it and if it doesn't work using a standard recipe while maybe you start by reducing the almond milk or something like that too

that she was also a higher fat right then regular milk but not with California we need to be growing better varieties from California California almond is incredibly low comparatively low fat never know the history of that accept that you know the usual sort of thing probably that the Breeders are looking for disease resistance and yield and not so much flavor

I think that's probably it and listen to the entire back catalogue after discovering it that hurts that's so much imagine wasn't noticed this was crazy electric pressure cooker yes I know they're not ideal but no regrets after picking one up for cheap on Craigslist ever use electric ones you're not that old Kuhn rikon can handle smashed off and and I've lost a part of the top of replace all the gaskets on it and it still works first I'm quite happy with my go to hummus recipe but I find the texture to be off when I'm using my rehydrated chickpeas instead of you

I try to read your picture with that raw flavor overdone texture that's still a parent after going into the food processor so I'm wondering what I'm missing an ancient bag of beans perhaps it for the question beans does the water need some kind of additive like calcium in order to retain some texture I'd stay away from that like there's been a bunch of studies way back in the day like in the early nineteen-hundreds I think we're people are noticing that they canned beans I had very different qualities on different parts of the country based on the water that was available in the canning thing and they would run through and they did a whole series studies on

that you need to worry about a calcium and magnesium calcium magnesium like no parts per thousand versus versus a hardness in the beans and then you get the situation where they're uniformly too hard and then there's the intermediate don't wear some that presumably are less well so if they're harder than other kind of whatever I am finished

okay I assume commercial carries rehydrate them to that is correct they do so I wonder what I am missing an angel bag of beans does the water need some kind of additive like calcium any thoughts on how to recreate canned chickpeas or other beans at home when it comes to preparation without the gaseous consequences in this is why I thought on this because for those of you I'm not going to make him say the story again unless you would like to welcome to but the entire on food and cooking a phenomenon that has you know help fuel so many of us in INR push towards thinking more scientifically about the problems of deliciousness was fueled by the problem of farting with beings true without the gaseous consequences the internet is filled with anecdotal advice what's a good evidence paste

and split peas if it makes a difference thank you so much and so where to begin maybe with the I'm a little confused about his question because he said he's bothered by a pasty mealy texture and chickpeas and take for you to go but then he's also talking about maybe adding calcium for texture when it sounds as though what he actually wants is an absence of Dexter maybe have gone over While others are still hard so maybe he's thinking accountants going to make them equally but it was just going to make you equally shafted who cares anyway chickpea that you just eat

if you can make a decent chickpea that you just eat and you like the texture of it when you're eating it then it's going to make a good hummus phenomenon if deans of any kind sit around for too long at especially at too high of a humidity they end up with this hard to cook quality that you just really can't get around so you want to start with fresh beans or as fresh as possible and cemented together much more permanently than they would be otherwise so am I like my grandpa just got one more and more ornery with you guys work as fresh beans as possible and then soak them pre-soak them and then cook them long enough to make them soft I mean that's kind of what it comes down to

check them every once in awhile see where you're getting to the point where the texture is close to the edible that you just just described and then go from there he's doing in the pressure cooker like especially if you have beans of varying ages right but they haven't gone all the way to ornery being syndrome the kind of longer you can let them so the better off you are because the more they will all equilibrate to an equal pre-cooked moisture right the harder you force water into a bean a bean or a chickpea that hasn't hydrated you know been soaked properly the more you're going to get an overcooked outside and undercooked inside right there when you say you also want to avoid violence boiling

yes yes although if you're going to end up paying it anyway then maybe if that's not such a big deal but it's the we generally don't realize it but the Step that takes the longest to process that takes longest to the cooking of beans isn't heating them up it's getting the water from the outside to the inside and so if you take care of that ahead of time then you eliminate all kinds of problems including textural problems because that's soaking will Leach out some of the ions that are holding those cell walls together what are your thoughts on the on the warm water pre-soak

it's quicker what it's like cuz they rehydrate so much faster do you get that wrinkly phenomenon and they expand faster than the insides do until you end up with that with that drink language pulls it away from the surface of the being in pain cause of the ventilator to to fall off or not to look as nice if you want your beans to cook don't add acid to them at all until they're soft right away

Sultan was Hulk in my experience and from my looking at the literature it slows the hydration but once it's hydrated Toledo's much quicker because of the sodium ions displace calcium in the structure and that helps loosen things up to allow more time because if there is salt in the in the water then it's going to take a lot longer to penetrate into the bean itself sugar is a couple things

if you don't know whether it's done you should wait for it to come down naturally if you do a flat a flash off on the pressure cooker and really does if the equivalent of a uniformly boiling throughout the liquid including the liquid inside of the in the cheap chickpeas and so I think you're going to get kind of blast apart on the on the on the on the thing but that so you have to let it come down naturally and then bring it back up so they can they can take more time that way but I know after a couple of batches you should be able to dial in in your time for the longer you let it soak the less I think you're going to have batch two batch very much got a really set of a old ornery beans there was a study that you were there and it was the year we were at Madrid Fusion together was like code 520 like this oh 60506 and like this and six of January of 06 I think Sylvia

or some sort of slight stomach by like all these famous she had gotten like this horrible virus or food poisoning like Thomas Keller was stumbling around on stage and every time a nightmare but since I wasn't at the time invited to any of the fancy stuff I did not catch any dread disease and so I was able to wander around that you know it will but I remember one of the presenters was Spanish at the paper in advance if I couldn't find a Spanish after we've done some research at Spanish University about chickpeas and various temperature regimes both in cooking and soaking the technical difference is remember that no I mean I couldn't find it a try to find it but there's a great phenomena and back then and there in in that. Of time especially in Europe

actually only recently in the US like there's been some kind of collaboration like that institutions who were like yeah let you know answer actual evidence based kind of stuff you know yeah and it has never happened before in Europe as well as something that was kind of strange that everybody first of all the chefs would be getting together in large numbers and sharing their recipes sharing their new ideas rather than hoarding them and then collaborating with people who had more technical knowledge than they did to to figure things out. Subjects and there's a lot of that everywhere now in the English-speaking world that you we always used to talk about in class as well as they are the Heston when you want to talk about everything

sure ask him has collaborated with people at a half dozen different universities in the UK the the collaboration that I think makes the most difference to most Cooks is the one he did with Donald micro mad Reading university uses in the like 2005-2006 where Heston Was preparing tomatoes in the kitchen in the standard classical French way of peeling the tomatoes scooping out the seeds and then chopping the the wall of the Tomato for some beautiful sort of garnish and he was popping bits of tomato in his mouth as he was doing this and noticed that the seeds seem to have way more flavor than the rest of the tomato and so he called up his friend mottram at reading and asked him was a true that there was more he thought mommy and acidity

and the jelly around the seeds and mushroom looked at the literature couldn't find anyone have done a study of this and so he and asked him collaborated on the study and they found that Not only was there a difference in the concentration of these things in human around the seeds but there was a huge difference was like three or four three or four fold difference in glutamate and organic acids and so on so the intensity of flavor in a tomato comes from the stuff that in many Cuisines you just kind of toss out or put in a stock or something like that and don't make you so ugly the French used to make fun of I would force you to make fun of the French we were the French quarter and see what you're talking about it back in the day when Ferran Adria was coming up with a new dish every 6 hours a couple of them are actually based on taking scooping the seeds out of the inside of a tomato and just serving them all by now

selves and they were delicious and selling the outside to the French before I go into the tall grass with you like I haven't even know anything about the thermophilic bacteria in their possible survival in side of the road in about their bags inflating after a fairly long. Of time when it should have already

everything should have been killed and I can describe it to their was sauce on the inside of the bag that didn't make it to temperature in time but then he's like well why did it blow up after a long. I don't know I wonder what it where there's ever been a case of like a thermophilic thing surviving and causing gas inside of a bag how long after hours after being put into the bath on day two I mean there are spores that survive temperatures like sous-vide temperatures and her actually activated by temperatures like that while the bag was still cooking it it was blew up while it was cooking a day later

like 24 hours magic 24 hours into the cook process the bags on flights are in bones or veg will come out in the first couple of hours after heats up usually

you know within 5 or 6 hours if you have a pocket on the inside that is being too protected from the heat such as you can generate stuff then that'll create gas that gas pocket will stay the temperature that doesn't kill the bacteria could be like 1505 6 degrees below you'll stay around but not like 24 hours later something out here to listen we're going to end up our extended but I won more that thing will be good to end on your you're looking into the burnt almonds and cyanide are you not wanting to talk about it we have taken for granted for not just our lives but for the lives of everyone back to our great-grandparents Caleb Sexton Road in a few sentences does apricots

California on the fresh fruit kind of acidity you decide what I did was I sprinkle some some acid on them and they were like anyways but the Colonel's be worried about amygdalin and then he said well you know my my impression is at the sweeter the sweeter the Colonel's and sailed and it immediately made me think what is that you have an answer for that so we talked about this before but that also you might talk about your recent investigations into the smell of cyanide write the standard description of the smell of the cyanide is like bitter almonds which like like almond extract which just seems weird because if you look at the

structure of hydrogen cyanide hcn that's all there is to it and then you look at the the aroma compound that gives us the smell of bitter almonds which is benzaldehyde which is a carbon 6 carbon ring they're just so different how can they end up giving you the same sensory perception I was just curious I thought it was hunting in the literature and it turns out that there's really not that good an evidentiary Trail to indicate that that's the case that in fact they do smell the same and there are several sources one of them in perfumery 1A a forensics text from around the turn of the century which was talking about how can you tell if there's a suicide how can you tell whether the person died if it's by cyanide then you would get this Telltale odor accepted

guy says that's the standard explanation and what you're looking for but in fact in his experience Sinai doesn't leave that kind of smell and this perfume has says that the smell of cyanide is not the same as benzaldehyde so I know a couple of scientists who have used cyanide as a reagent in their research and I want to get to them and see either whether they can give me their feeling about this and whether maybe I might take a sniff a very carefully controlled if that's a good question I should probably check that out before I I would definitely check that because you someday we would love to have you back on cooking issues so I don't want to read in the I don't want to read in the

papers that you know that the Curious cook was killed by his curiosity but I would not he would not be pleasant

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