Cooking Issues Transcript

Episode 203: Dave’s Veggetti Birthday

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all right should I add a happy birthday to you happy birthday to you happy birthday dear Google happy birthday to you very nice very nice very nice before we start thank you I get to say years young instead of years old when you like 60 years do this regular cooking issue style we can take it from the top

Tuesday on The Heirs radio network 12:45 if you want to 848-721-2800 still cooking issues broadcasting live out of the studios in Alberta Pizzeria Bushwick Brooklyn on the Heritage Radio Network every Tuesday from roughly 12 to 12:45 calling your life questions to 718-497-2128 that's 718-497-2128

I don't know we can put it to a vote yeah was the other one on by the by the like Foundation related to you guys said that account the other Heritage Radio syndicated old time radio show no other tweets

old school cuz I don't have like even like a knife with me so I don't feel like a asmus. She would say you're only half a man if you don't have your knife with you but I'm of the yesterday I worked I worked I ate leftovers and I fell asleep like that no I was going to go out to the bar and now they were eating dinner anyway so the point that yes it's nice you know I cooked a big meal on on Sunday cuz it broke isn't of my birthday is like

we can do on a Monday birthday ones got to work you know I'm saying so next week is Easter and so of course what do you cook Easter dinner what are you do you buy a Tandoor so I drove to plus also I mentioned before I'm going to do a big outdoor kitchen but I've really been that kind of research and kind of what I'm going to do in a building when I consider maybe buying a bread oven and it's putting in a but I think was going to actually build it from scratch with the problem is it when you're pouring the concrete and doing all this you have like days and days what it's going to take a long time to going to take probably the better part of the season for me to actually be able to build a bread oven if I'm only working you know on you know every other weekend going to do it so can take a while so I'm what can I do right now I can just get a Tandoor and you can buy for not that much means expensive but not that much money just a completely filled in Tandoor they build a Tandoori liner you know with that whatever Harry crap they put into the clay the clay date in Delhi they put it inside of a

stainless steel trash can fundamentally and then put refractory cement around it they give you some skewers a little bread coaching you hunt on work right with a bread cushion so they give you a little bread cushion and you're ready to go so we know I'm going to be doing that I got to call Patrick Martin listen people's if you need lamb for Easter which I'm sure you do there is still time to go to Heritage Meats in and purchase some of their land in Tunisia I would guess anyway so the point being I'm going to try and sneak some land from Patrick and I'm going to do Mediterranean flavors Pandora cooking what do you make

I had a check last night is that is that your new truck sounds like at like a novel like your first novel from a food truck what's what called which version of it that's like Pulp plan and other stuff on a stick

you know he has does you never cease and finding new ways to culinarily disappoint me you don't like the Krusty deliciousness on the outside of a lamb kebab tomato stew until you had to queue at which point well or being obese to its beef stew

and a rather crappy beef stew with that until you add freaking cumin

that is so that is not cool stuff what about the like the Russian version of of lamb kebabs what's the weather going to be there someday you will come up very excited about the Tandoor I have to there's a few big things when you didn't get a Tandoor clay right so you like people first you have to have pre-fire it's I got to do the pre-firing with charcoal and that stops IT from cracking because I remember when we made the fate and or forensic with a cracked it could be fired it real hard real fast we try to do free fire brigade

I mean legally Hard Core lesson 8 day old school like to flower pot Pandora and we drill a hole in the bottom for that charcoal thing put in trash can surround it with insulation and the food was delicious but now hiring of it and then that the big bone of contention with the tandoors it is that you have to season the inside of it when I go to make sure his last house New Jersey and the guy will just hand you a Tandoor it's like 350 pounds we don't hand it to you looks like a giant Warehouse to complete with the sweet Wearhouse dude beard and he picks up the put it in the back of your station wagon

yeah it's like 20 minutes from New York you can go by and pick it up on the line whose upset with the way you treated her all my goodness

hi Dave hello.

Oh my goodness

at the greatest the greatest

thing that ever happened to me

the Dave I was listening couple weeks ago and I heard you were talking badly about the veggetti just a name the name you don't trust the noodle that the product know you don't trust the product

weird vegetables I think it could be an interesting look I mean I think like shredded like like shredded filter delicious mini shredded

oh my gosh you know what all right all right until you have us you have a vested stake in the end of the device or more just a love for it

I have a what are you like a part of the veggetti corporation or do you just have it just just had you can use it for everything like the jetty carbonara spaghetti and meatballs I mean it's like

I need information you can do veggetti fritters never done like sausage and veggetti sausage in the gravy with the veggetti I'm not going to be okay and what's your favorite things to eat to to veggetti eyes

or spiralized what are your favorite things to at to spiralize in the veggetti really done anything else I don't I think that you know it has to be a little bit softer I think that like a potato or carrot would be a little too much for the spiralizer you know how big is the opening today

I mean it's like a zucchini side you could do a cucumber you could do like a cold cucumber salad all right or alright well we'll play around with it I'll call back in and we can go from there that's a fair deal that's a fair deal yourself because of being your focus more on bar in the cookbook and everything in the Sears all but we will definitely reopen R testing R testing phase of our career with the veggetti I look forward to it. Thank you and I'll say that this beers on veggetti are a great match for you

my God okay don't know that he does for a living

oh doors when you when you when you fart and are for the first time you protect the day clay from later thermal shock right then you have to put a seasoning on the inside I'm trying to figure out whose recipe for seasoning you need because people makes like like sugar and mustard oil and like eggs and spinach and they rub it on the inside the theory being that I guess it affects like the patina and whether or not the nonce will stick to it properly and then release properly when they're when they're cooked but expect me to go on 10 of Tandoor frenzy for the next time I can probably do Mediterranean style lamb with spices that you might appreciate stars for Easter along with just Nan after 9 after 9 after that you liked non right everybody by anyone in the engineering Booth not like non do I get an argument over here

I like playing

last week we had we had a question we can get to from Brian Van Cliburn klavern about him hey Dave hammer and the boo Squad molecules in the boo Squad

yeah it looks like it's almost like he become like The Terror Squad I receive my first country ham last week a half of a kernel out of by the way I believe it's Princeton Kentucky I think it's where they're from but they're Nancy Mahaffey is the is the ham curing Master there and she's been doing it for a long time I think she took over the business has got to be like maybe 15-20 years ago now at least I think I don't know it's been a long time I've spoken to her in years but her hands are done according to the recipe that they've had in the family since their family was in Virginia you know hundreds of years ago and they do ambient earring so I have been caring meaning they they really only cure one time of year when it starts getting cold out and then they don't do a refrigerator process they would if they do it in the way that you would have done it before you had Refrigeration so she has you know every year she produces a different batch some of what she saves for long enough to do two and three year old age

although they all get bought up right now because she has you know pretty wide cult following following the thing I like about her hand she also doesn't eat for what it's worth I believe she's a non non I tried adding non nitrate adding a person but I can't remember but anyways curing area but apparently it's near pretty swampy region and I maybe that's why but they like at their best her hands have a particular kind of funky almost at the back of your mouth blue cheese kind of a note that I think are indicative of her best hand so whenever I taste one of her hands I like taste and see what it has that particular note to it in which case then I mean oh my God that's the real deal and the only other hands I've had to have that blue cheese notar is a ham that my wife's mobile back to me from China which one we go visit their production we can going to go on Amazon and China can't wait

can I wait anyway that wasn't so I've got a few questions on storing it and slicing it for storing I just put it in a brown paper sack and fold up the end tightly inside my kitchen cabinet then I set the ham in a bag on a metal grate read it online it's mentioned to use cloth or wrap order wrapping paper so I figured this is closed but I'm still on the lookout for a cotton bag or something my house has a California cooler which is a vented food storage box which I could use for food storage as well the conditions inside there for the next several months will probably be around 50 to 264 degrees and around 75% average humidity may be a bit higher where's the cabinet would be a tad warmer and drier course I could always just to use the fridge but the other spaces are more plentiful of the options between us a kitchen cabinet a California cooler and a fridge what would be ideal and because I got half a hand is quite a bit of meat that's already exposed is it necessary to cover sliced areas with some sort of fat I prefer not to use lard or shortening with hydrogenated oils if possible why though

under what I was wondering if peanut oil or something might be a decent substitute if not I do have some leaf lard I can render down if I need to I wonder what the best way to slice his I'm looking instructions for slicing both country hands and Spanish and most of what I look like a perpendicular like a spiral cut or or at least closer to being perpendicular to the bone has to be better for frying or whatnot I like what not to do for the Spanish to be closer to being parallel to the Bone if I'm primarily eating it uncooked with very thin slices what is the best way to cut it thanks Brian from San Francisco California AAA okay now let's go

how to cut a ham now that age-old this is like this is the heart of the and I've spent a lot of time figuring out whether you should cut a ham across the grain the way that we traditionally eat all hands in in this country and by that I mean even when they're eating Crudo style some talking prosciutto and even the average American slicing Spanish ham is going to slice it across the grain now my feeling borne out by research that I've done now like did over 10 years ago so I had enough probably I'm sure there's been a lot of recent Scott much more recent scholarship on this not that what I was doing was scholarship it was for that hammock an exhibit I did back in 04

was that traditionally meats are the hands like this were sliced if they're going to be eating and a Crudo style were sliced Spanish ham wasn't in that to this day you know the Italian folks who you know are no more kissing allowed at doing it will slice at the long way that is horizontally that is with the grain running along it in a long Strip This does several things it produces a much chewier piece of meat and it allows you to section the entire length of or not the entire life but a larger length of the ham in in one in one slice so chewy earthing and variation and also let's be honest most hamsa hand hand slicing isn't so good so it gets like thick and thin and thick and thin and thick and thin. Time we were doing it and you ever was laughing at each other and was telling everyone else in the crap hole and then as soon as you

did someone else was doing a good job then they would break through and mess it up the cross cut that we have now really I believe didn't never came into Vogue in terms of Crudo ham serving until the invention of the meat slicer buy a fella named fan purple Hue of the Berkel meat slicer so those the original ones were completely vertical the ones that that you see in the fancier shops with the vertical blade and actually the original ones were amazingly frightening look because it was literally a large spinning Blade with no guards at all their their fantastically frightening there's a picture of what looks like a you know a 2015 Brooklyn is he's got a kind of mustache on him and standing in front of this machine only imagine if we got one of those old ones and they set it up in the four steps of using their hands or get cut off like left and right

play guards on this thing yeah right yeah yeah the only time I've been heavily damaged in the kitchen was with a meat slicer and Ally yeah but I meant what I meant to say is the only time I've been really really badly cut in the kitchen was on what was on a meat slicer and that was like a semi modern one with bunch of guards on Eva like I'm holding my thumb even just thinking about feeding my son into the edge of that flavor should I stay fully never be severed huge new and it whatever day you want to know anyways the point is that the Advent of that slicing technology has kind of like LED not only to the luncheon meat phenomenon that you have member Blimpie back in the day I'm still exist still have limited

what led to this idea of cross cut hams and ability to slice them very very thin and all Americans grew up grew grew up eating Americans that grew up eating prosciutto and other crudest on hands grew up eating it this way and I have to say I like it I like it. Couldn't cross cut ham is 5000 * like I don't know it's more stuff hangs like a fabric in your hand you can put up your nose sniff it in a way that you can't I think the long kind of stiffer scripts I like it and it's and it's section two different things that excite exceptions whatever particular muscle group you're on right now all the way through so I like it but that said it's a matter of taste I don't believe as other people believe that there's a right answer or wrong answer I think it's what you want if you want that more tender thinner twice to go Crosscut if you want to sample all the different pieces and you like that text Will variation go go horizontal but I will say it

difficult to try to make good cross cut slices by hand so if you don't have a meat slicer I would I would slice it more traditionally get a like a long thin or straight slicer and and learn destroy a slice of surrounding stop middle part of the question. Is there any meat Aleve exposed will you want to keep it in you know not to dry environment or it's going to overdrive going to try out for any piece of meat that you leave exposed will end up how long you store it drying out to the same extent that a that the fit so if you look at a hammer like a standard like American country ham there is a portion of the meat that's exposed you know where you severed the leg from the pig right the face of the other hand there where you said that there's that expose me and eventually any cut surface will approach the same level of desiccation

as that face section could meet maybe like maybe you don't I will believe that any oil covering would help somewhat ameliorate that problem you can probably even literally store it in oil with a complete cover of O it like in a gallon Zippy with like oil around it to prevent I don't know I've never tried it but I'm sure that would work but that said the old school folks in fact in the mountains in Spanish Mountain hand and in Italian Italian Italian hams right in with the with the lard they mix some sort of flower with the larva I forget what it is and pasted over the face that's why the face of a prosciutto is that kind of like whitish color when they're when they're tearing it and that prevents rapid moisture loss through the face and so what that means is that is that the the meat will be relatively similar levels of dryness throughout the muscle where's if you look at a cross cut an American ham you'll notice that the meat that's closer to the face substantial

play dark or substantially dryer has a different texture and different tastes therefore then the main cushion of the meat which is up and usually very very much softer so anyway and in the old days yeah you would rub lard and probably with some other mixture or some crap with it so that it doesn't drip out on you I don't know and that's what I remember I think it was Maurice burger from Burgers Smokehouse in weather in Hollywood in the Ozarks but the town's called so I think it's time to go Hollywood because of the rats in the barn couldn't hold on to the wire right so they couldn't climb down a wire to get to the hands and then they would slather large they would cut a piece off then they would Slaughter with lard and hang it hang it back up on the wire and that's the way they would keep their hands out in the barn when he was a kid and then they would go scrape off slice another frying slice out and then put the the the lard back on and go and that's how they

we keep it to that that should work fine as to where you should keep your hands I used to hang my hands there's two there's three there several enemies two hands to the first enemy is over desiccation I would guess probably in San Francisco that's not going to be too much of a problem the other two enemies are bugs specifically likes things that bore into the the meet these like little beetles hate them I hate them and you can see like you'll get like little bore holes in your hand where those freaking Beatles get in this is where screening is going to help you write any sort of thing like that is going to help cuz once they hit their hit all the hands that you have that have exposed me right so the bags are probably prevent there's like a cloth bag Adventist some paper and sacked by prevent this so you won't have that problem the other problem is freaking mites now mites

Dave form like a Dusty powder and you'll notice a dusting powder accumulating under your hands cuz he's might get there and I don't think any screen and not sure I don't think any screens going to prevent you can get once you have them lights on hand and for me it was I brought a mighty hand in my tea have I brought a mighty ham in and then all the rest of my hands got contaminated with the mice and I spoke to or spoke to Sam Edwards from s Wallace Edwards and Son supported by Network by the way he was like yeah like unless you have treatments for it like in your home you don't typically treat for mites and lice treat for it like once you get a Mite and what you get mites in their you're you're you're you're done you're going to have the mindset and nobody the mics and make that powdery stuff I don't know if they hurt the hand but it's kind of an irritant so story in the fridge the promise during the fridge wrapped in paper is that you'll get some washer coming up to the surface there and I've gotten mold on the paper which is not a big problem we have to kind of wash it off so I would just kind of hang it out maybe

California cooler I think it should be good temperature fluctuation not bad or just keep aging just got to worry about over desiccation which you could probably fix using some form of large spread over the face in the meat or some stuff like this yeah let's take a break come back with more cooking issues

what we're not going to commercial break

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hey what's up guys it's me Jack as in Jack from cooking issues as in the guy that's probably been talking on the show so here on the break to tell you about molecular which is not only not some website and store and resource but also they support us which makes them even that much cooler so I know Dave gives you plenty and plenty of information on the show but should you need further resource should you want to get some of the things he's talking about molecular has recipes techniques ingredients tools all in the world of this modern is thing we love so much on the show so you know explore the world of phone even Spears and invisible Foods in mind blowing cocktails all that awesome stuff there's a community of over 400,000 Chef scientist and food lovers sharing their favorite recipes tips

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and we're back you say invisible Foods Jackie molecules can't see him can't see him how do you know how to shut visible raviolis and stuff

OUC see-through I guess it would be see-through yeah I mean if I could sell invisible food I'd be invisible food in front of you right now through transparent and see through as you all know that I enjoy enjoy some clarified products

listen go to that go to their website check it out and hopefully you're going to find something that you desperately need an order at the show that event you know their sponsorship is is worth while I'm all right. I'm eating invisible scallops right now by the way the Roca is right so that you know Georgie the brother Roku who's a pastry chef or what I guessed it was at the Elkhart can Roca he was using the road about cuz they were kind of pioneers a rotovap and he was making all of these perfectly colorless clear desserts like with the flavor of X Y and Z years ago was kind of a mind-blowing my blind experiment back in the day we back in the day

produced by the chef step technique so you look up on chefsteps time oil as basically they do they bat in a vacuum bag and then cook their the time with the oil and other spices 255c for Celsius with 3 hours so far we go through a ton of thyme and rosemary oil at my house now thinking about it any longer extract time and heat question and he where would you start on a process for that thanks Eddie okay that's a good question I've never I've never since I haven't done it right like I'm not going to give any what numbers are going to say is I would I would set up a test batch of small test batches so the first thing you're going to want to do is I would test a range of a short answer is no I don't have any recommendations with a different kind of grind

of the pepper different peppers first of all I mean obviously you know black pepper is not a kind of unitary thing you can get in Malabar and get tellicherry you can get in Uno bunch of different times and so even like a trip to live here in New York you can just go to kalustyan's or even a dual specialty or nice places and you can buy five or six different kinds of pepper we used to do that have those pepper tasting some kind of did you like that tasting weed it's basically on butter with bread right cuz of the butter help they spread out and so so we just do butter bread and pepper weed smell it by itself and in fact there are Stark and he's differences between the different kinds of pepper even you agreed that lady who thinks a tall ketchup stays the same

did I get back to the show what I would do is I would first try to figure out which kind of pepper you want to use and then I would try a whole cracked and fine and then I would have done Pepper with with liquor right in fact I think I have one by black pepper tincture in in the book and for that I tested for riding crying but I've never done it in a variety of Pepperdine ever done it in oil is why it and then I would testify variety of temperatures and then I would see test those temperatures to see which temperature regime you like best in terms of balance and then after you do and I would text like maybe three different temperatures like low medium and high and then and then in between those temperatures I would have probably another two and then I would test duration of time so you're going to have to run a bunch of tests but in the end you'll be able to get something that you really like and then you can put it back in to tell us tell us what you like but I'll say another thing is that I am reminded years ago Stein garden called me on the phone

and he said Jeffrey steingarten you know like one of my Ruffino culinary writing Idols son recently or talk to me on the show that was fun you like him cuz he's mean to me yes I do actually get some Soundgarden back on the show anyway so you said to me he says you are an idiot like everyone else you add pepper at the beginning of cooking Ware as it's known by a studies that that basically the awesome Aroma of pepper volatilize is here within minutes after adding and all you're left with his bitter taste to which I replied but Jeffrey I like that better taste you know what I mean so we got it would it leave to is this idea that you can have a just like Ops where you can add kind of a bittering hop and then you can add pepper at the beginning of a cook for a frisbee

and then at the end for a Roma show with your oil and I do that actually with them when I'm doing hop and fusions all fusions in the alcohol I'll do some heated and some cold right you might also experiment with pepper with oil by the way using an EC to try and get a higher pressure and pressurized stuff in the pepper but the point being is that you're going to get different results because pepper oil is extremely volatile paper or try to read a paper I didn't really have time called thermal properties of black pepper and volatile oil by types of small hair murlidhar Meg wall and tkr the Swami 2011 and I was hoping for some like like pardon five numbers that which they didn't get it but suffice it to say the one number that would stick out of my head was that the volatile oils are solid below about 38° Celsius and in the in the introduction they mention that the grinding even kind of normal grinding can keep pepper up substantially and change the composition of its olive oil to buy volatilize income

so I may say cryo grinding when we make it around some of the interesting thing you might do to try to get an infusion of flavors that you would get in a whole peppercorn but doing it more completely underground fashion will be the grinder pepper I'm keeping it below about 40 degrees -40 degrees Celsius -40 your average fridge does by -20 so I were talking about like a story and dry ice for a while and grinding they're using Ln to get to find if that might give you a different result we hold interesting kind of think you might want to think about it it's kind of a pre pepper post pepper similar to kind of dry hopping to try to get the bitterness out of one and they have another another thing you might want to look at is may be doing like a super chilled like a cry of line to see where that conditioning different versus the normal just playing with temperatures and times so hopefully this is some food for thought ya

now we have a question in from Brook in Tribeca and Brooke rice at the official style with a capital T the capital B in the capital capital c ever do that I mean back in the day you mean like this like the artist I couldn't afford to live in the Soho this is a move down to Tribeca now it's like super fancy

and that's the only reason you like that event right as you can look at on Beyonce Department hopefully she came out once right Beyonce my brother calls Beyonce are used to anyways love to show new listener quick question about making fresh cheeses specifically ricotta what you thought and ricotta stuffed circulator to make something like what kind of horse is a quick stovetop method I recently used to ricotta recipe that calls for cooking the entire milk cream acid mixture in a bag for 1 hour at 172 degrees Fahrenheit pretty damn specific what's that in Celsius can you open up from the side

that sounds like the kind of thing that someone came up with a Celsius recipe and then just hit convert 170 to its I bet you're pretty close to an even somewhere in Celsius I see what it is right for people start starts his fingers are for fastly lightning but you know the Google in here not a serious a fast method seem to call for just a quick summer before adding acid to the colonel with the thing you didn't tell me Brooke is like what was the result of the number 777 Point 77777 what the results were so I don't know whether or not you enjoy that hundred seventy-two while we're on the topic what's better whole milk

milk with some heavy cream and is there any difference in texture between lemon juice distilled vinegar and white wine vinegar or is that just a taste preference many thanks and congrats on the nomination best Brooke from Tribeca donation for the beard and won one and ICP Jane grigson award yeah you know I was up for a Ward and I was not even up yet not invited but I wasn't up for anything could have been nominated right but but like the judges have like two special judge awards are like

maybe you should have went something I'll give it to him

I know that means I have no more of my hair is like Samson it's pretty badass Jane grigson was she said was well known British writer she died I think in the 90s or something like this and you know what I guess her most famous book here in the States was charcuterie and anyway she is a fan was a fantastic writer right and so this

and very influential in fact and this this award to change brakes and award is for you know heavily kind of research and thought out and like deep deep. It's basically and I loved and I loved her for decades so super duper honor to get the Jane grigson toward right now anyway so make me feel like it wasn't to get to play to work for me International Association of collision professionals and not Liberty to say whether I get a sticker on my book or not

do you want to put stickers on books so they sell more Amazon

but it used to be you would go to you would go to a bookstore I need see and you see a sticker and you be like I want to know what this idiot has to say for this idiot well some other idiot gave this idiot an award so we must have been the stickers were on the books of like the books in elementary school it's the ones you wanted to avoid cuz they were the areas but I tell you what though for a children's book author especially like unless you win some of those big Awards I think it's hard to do numbers cuz there's so many kids books out there that you know you need some sort because of parents when they're buying kids books right there's a Goodwill am I buying something that's going to be good for my child's brain I'll get the one with the with the free game award you no I think the same goes for your The cookbook has a sticker on it

Miss Siri every day is kind of a big whoop you know what I mean like they go through the big rigmarole of getting the ingredients and also if it was kind of a big remember back when you used to be like that I remember that I took out of that I owned it was given to me that the Julia Child's are not the first one but that was it called the way to cook ricotta cheese

Idaho's has happened so I'm not of acid curdled cheese is being eaten out ricotta or paneer or you know like a fresco or things like this but I'm going to go I'm going to go ahead and say that

you know Kenzie at that serious eats a long time ago did a bunch of tests on Ricotta and for him he didn't see a kind of a huge difference in the in the texture of the recado paste on the temperature to which is heated so he didn't see he didn't see it as being a big deal in fact to prevent scorching he even knew you know nuke the stuff and just make sure that the temperature regime that he wanted before he added the acid to it I'm interested in the one that you have where they acid is pre added and then raised to curl it to see what that is but my feeling is that why was true perhaps it that he didn't get that much of a difference in texture with a different temperatures it's a known fact that that the rate of curly is going to be different at different temperatures and also holding occurred at an elevated temperature in a liquid for a length of time will continue to exclude water from it making kind of denture hard worker so my guess is that

over very short. Of time the temperature might not be that big of a deal but that over longer periods of time the temperature will become more and more of a big deal and I want I'd like to find if you could send me you know where tweet me out like a link to the recipe that you followed in the circulator for it one of the things that is really clear with any sort of jelling mechanism is that the final texture of the gel is very dependent on the conditions present at the time of yelling so friends dance with algenist if you use a soft calcium right not only does it take longer to set that the jail will be less firm Because the actual agglomeration of The Outnet to it to it south of The Binding of the album it to itself not only is it slower but it produces a different texture but it also agent can increase a texture but never

increase make it harder but it's never going to be the same in a slow sad situation vs. the fast set so the amount of acid you add the speed at which it curdles and a temperature which is Carlos it seems to me or variables that you could probably dork with and get get different results the same was true for acid the acid that you use and again I haven't done extensive testing but you know according to you know what what I've read you know lemon juice are going to taste like lemon buttermilk takes substantially more so it's probably going to affect the texture and it's also going to affect the

can affect the texture it's also going to affect the flavor at the at those kinds of levels but remember also is that different things with different acids putting on the rate at which you add them are going to affect the rate of hurtling as well so the rate at which you add it is probably also going to have an effect similarly the draining time is going to be the more cream you have the more fat you going to have so the more creamy it's going to taste Rite in the things you might fuss with is you might want to add some extra calcium to the mixing the formula calcium chloride if you want to order cuz I don't know what you're trying to achieve so please send me a link to the recipe that you did cuz I love to actually try it out so I'm going to do a bunch of side-by-side especially because you know now that I have a Tandoor but I'm going to go upon your crazy do you like I'm here at the house. And I are going to be doing here for days and that is the cooking issues

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