Cooking Issues Transcript

Episode 189: Sous Vide and Fireball Whiskey

today's program is brought to you by Cain Vineyard and Winery Napa Valley Winery committed to respecting the soil and dedicated to the creation of three Cabernet Blends for more information visit this is Mitchell Davis host of taste matters your listing to Heritage Radio Network broadcasting live from Bushwick Brooklyn do you like this program is it a Heritage Radio Network. Org for thousands more

kylian so proud of you. When you walked in here like you know like 11:55 right baby steps baby baby steps we just made the table who sitting by the window get up and move they weren't ready to return musical by about there anyway because I saw some are are scrimmage scrimmage and so maybe I was like harshing there mellow and they were talking about whatever kind of folk hipster Rock they were working on over there why are you a fan of Hocus Pocus hipster rock that was Baldwin mathematics professor in The Man Behind the sous vide kill Curves in modernist cuisine

aren't you going to start sweating in the studio that's true but it's not like that here is ever warm enough to stay tuned for the I mean others like if you happen to be listening live don't that because we're going to have like a discussion to food safety a question of a statement that there's a lot of conflicting and not really kind of useful information out there about safety and low temperature cooking and you know I have some questions before that happens

dates and Jack and why not sure why do that nothing from where the bus went wrong and it makes its Antoine from Boca Raton Florida crap your bartender turn cold pressed juice cold pressed juice I also managed to get a table wd-50 while it was there that night and came out to our table and I was Starstruck and incapable of speaking with him just want to let you know I greatly by myself and I was glad I got to go to both of those establishments are there going to be a blast

it while yet but you know most people here aren't going to really care where like we have to go to dinner tonight I mean Biscayne. Germain like I apologize people you were not invited to the same party then yeah yeah yeah there's tangents Nastasia and then there's tangents that relate to things other people can they can't relate to where we're going to go to dinner at doesn't make any sense anyways you ever see how they are public service messages were people ignite their houses in a deep frying a turkey giant thing of oil right on his giant fryer and then you stick something has too much water into it the water bottle a bunch of Italy it goes I like water boils out sprays a fine mist of oil droplets in the air that are very close to the ignition temperature of the oil and then a flame looking up over the sides ignites one or two of those we have

turkey Fireball loccino not recommended procedure and however the recipe calls for submerging it in a brine bath instead I wish to inject it as I've been told it is a superior form of brining my conundrum is that I don't know what ratio of salt I should include or how I should alternate I have attached the recipe I'm probably going to be doing and 11.5 to 13.5 kg turkey and by the way turkey's being an American bird should only be roasted in pounds my friend I'm kidding just kidding yeah you did however you want I'm only thinking kilograms to but right turkeys turkeys are never suspecting kilograms cuz they're not European right right what do you think

Diamond have to support you in that one no offense to that European the same go for like a European animal against her know I'm just saying it's like it's like we dress for the weather here in the US even even though I cook in Celsius like with low temperature stuff when I'm doing any work or deep frying worse I cook in Fahrenheit and I dress based on Fahrenheit I don't like hates 20 Celsius in Fahrenheit in McCalla get it I got it you don't even so I don't know it's just something when something is very American like a turkey I like you know I revert to my kind of old-school brought up American ways that's all there was like he recommendation for any other brand Solutions you like without her noteworthy Happy Thanksgiving Shalom adios it Keep On Rockin in the Free World

unfortunately I had a bird or if your dry salting it right you typically make a concentrated salt solution and some of its absorbed in and most of it's not you throw the rest away when you're doing a brine pump right and by the way that's the only way the flavor of the things like beer is going to really permit to the light we just beyond the surface of the bird anyway to dress like a couple lemon wedges and lime wedge in the whole damn thing like Taste of herb in the line would why is that that's not the case but when you cook it somehow you like to email my wife that she's like how does that work I think you know what I have no idea

we're right now and again I refer you for brining to the genuine ideas blog which is done by which is named Greg blonder and he's done to the best of my sleuthing the kind of greatest body of work on the specifics of Brian penetration it's a totally different game when you're injecting what you do is this you calculate what percentage salt you want in the finished thing right then you calculate what percent well first actually you calculate what percentage you going to pump to so like for instance like you could pump anywhere between like you know 5 and 15% of the weight of an item with a Brian right so you choose a kind of what how much like liquid you're going to jack into this sucker right and so a lot of people like Kenji alt Lopez doesn't like crying because he figures that you're injecting kind of non flavorful things and

is going to leak out and what if you go there you go so usually you're not pumping it because you want to sell a higher way product you're pumping for flavor so you might want to be on the lower end of the pumping Spectrum somewhere like five 8% of the weight maybe 10 maybe at the time when do you catch a like what what percentage of the of the animal fur in this case weight you're going to inject into it menu calculate what you want the Finish saw content of the birthday so let's say you want like a percent salt in the thing well then you calculate the weight of the liquid you going to inject into it plus the weight subtract out some sort of like idea for the weight of the phones cuz you're not going to count that stuff add that much salt to the way to liquid that you're going to put in make it look whatever you want if you're going to add sugar when I was injected try to inject it all around the bird to go

roughly everywhere then let it sit for a while to equilibrate and there you have it and so you know that's not going to be exact but that's really how you figure it out so you have to figure out how much salt do you want in there but I try to think that I would guess it's somewhere I wouldn't go over percent right maybe like I wouldn't go over percent maybe like a percent to look up look up around the internet for like kind of what what percentage you want but I think it's about right and do a test beforehand like whatever you going to do something like this by a fresh turkey breast right and a leg and then just follow what I just said inject them with the relative percentages let them sit for in overnight in zippies or you know if a couple of hours and Zippy's in the fridge cook them out and takes them that's the best way we think that's what I would literally what I would do anything everyone makes a mistake that they don't do a test for easy Thanksgiving

I think it's okay to say f instead of the f word

severe dog

hey doctor Bowen Dave Arnold hear how you doing long time no see and I did that thing in Denver many many moons ago that's been quite a few years so what do you have going on anything you want a picture plug before we get into the nitty-gritty here

yeah sure Black Friday a new 2-week course is coming out shut that so I worked with everyone on so that's going to be exciting I like you know why cuz like I'm giving the people that like you don't want to hit the Black Friday want to hit the Cyber Monday Cyber Monday is a load of horse crap it's an opportunity for people to look for small Black Friday just an opportunity for people to overspend for no apparent reason just because like they feel that Christmas season is open and they can spend a lot of money now but like why we need to add other like full of crap opportunities just stick with the original stick with the Black Friday you know what you're not to American consumerism and just let it go with that was coming in and we're hoping to get them in the stores buy in store in Amazon buy Black Friday but you know there's always a question because

Mike it held up at Customs cuz we're riding right in which case we might have to wait till Cyber Monday and I will pretend that was our intent when I described that the court really quickly

oh so they already came out with the surf beginning course that covers how would you do it without a circulator and then the new course beyond the basics assumes you already have a water bath 2 weeks premature ejaculator whatever and then I cover a theory about how many changes with temperature how what part of the body on the animal relates to how it Cooks we have a really cool math that's log time and different temperatures and has lost islands for Tuff cut undercut things like this I think he will really like it

that's why I appreciate a nice food safety section so I can give you the quick background before don't know the players involved think like 2008 or 2007 or something like this there was some questions posted on Eagle it about many questions about to get in general and at that time was already working with it when you are a PhD student right is that true or or when you were postdocs right and you were working on it and then on ego it there is at Nathan M who was kind of like in these also was going to really smart ass cuz he was kind of unknown at that time is that you know he was known to people but not kind of the way he is now

show people start posting questions and then somehow you two got together and he I don't know how you can somehow convinced you to actually do the math to figure this stuff out is that it is that about right cuz your mathematics professors people might also not know

so I I kept reading all these things about no drives while it heats up and well I'm a researcher all over sous vide cooking cookbook

now I've joined chefsteps so it's it's been an interesting trajectory nice and so is that a long time can ingber Road in and said Hey listen coming out there about what's safe and what isn't and is this technique dangerous is it not blah blah blah blah okay now and I think there is a lot of kind of horse crap around my opinion why is because people aren't actually like talking about the same things you know what I mean like people aren't actually just talking and I explained to The Listener and then you tell me whether you agree and it will talk about like what we think about this so safe and then there's safe

is it you know that there's most cooking is relatively unsafe like as a process unless it's very well controlled there's lots of potentials for bad things to happen for bad things to get on their food and for them to it to get into your body and turn it into cartoons this is why people get low temperature cooking vastly because it's more controlled vastly more safe than uncontrolled home regular cooking you know what I'm saying or predictable something wrong when they're cooking at home then you know they're much more likely to make a mistake it's going to get them sick not by using like traditional cooking methods probably out here now but when you're cooking

restaurant professionally in fact we also do unsafe things all the time but there are those unsafe things and if we are going to do and say things to try to get us to tell our customers that we're doing something unsafe like not cooking their hamburgers all the way which is why we are thermometers in the center of things to test whether or not the temperature has gotten up to a high enough point that bacteria are killed so quickly that there's no question that this product is going to be safe and in general that's why I quit serving fast food restaurant Hammer the hell out of your food and in general why their food can't possibly be as good as a restaurant where they take the care to try and do it right we agree so far now the fact of the matter is that safety when it comes to writing a Hassett plan and safety when it comes to dealing with someone who might be immunocompromised or

the hospital or when you're dealing with packaged foods have to go out to a consumer where you have no further control have a much much higher standard of safety than stuff that you cook at home on a normal basis and they also control over the rocks that we can talk about to really get into it 9/10 of the stuff that I make it home is not pasteurized. It's not what I mean I don't pasteurize fish I don't pasteurize many meats and I don't worry about it because and we've had this discussion before I'm dealing typically with whole muscle cuts and I am you know fairly certain that they haven't been stabbed to death by someone who had a bunch of E coli on a knife and I'm willing to take the risk so so

E46 so you tell me what you think is safe for whom if you are a healthy individual with a good immune system booster foods have a low enough that you could eat some raw and you wouldn't get sick so if you just do the minimum cooking where are you cooking for a little bit until the textures ride or you sear the outside quickly

is going to be safe to eat the real problem is for the people who are immune-compromised they require very few pathogens to get sick so if you're a meaning of confident I absolutely agree you don't need to pasteurize almost any of the food that you eat what's much more important is not having cross-contamination in your kitchen or problem in your food right

now if you are one of these immune-compromised people and one study showed that 15 to 20% of the US and UK population is at higher risk of foodborne illness then you do certain need to pasteurize because even

they impact chicken breast 10% of them so would have enough passengers inside them that someone who is immunocompromised would have to be pretty worried also this whole thing is Complicated by the fact that and ask me a question right and I can't have one later on the show is this safe would you cook would you do this in service to your family because it different question do you want I'm saying like is this safe I don't really know the context that you're going to do it in I don't know your personal history I haven't delved into this Pacific Science will talk about this in a minute on every particular you know combination of cooking techniques that are possible

only thing that I can really comment on and maybe this is what I should start doing from now on it's saying what I serve this to my family or not because I'll always 100% of the time like tell you that I can't guarantee that something is safe if I can't you know you were trying to eliminate all risk all your food would probably taste horrible because you can't eliminate all those risks from did you go through and check to make sure there is no Rock than your lentil I mean that's a big risk for someone hurting their teeth or have you been served food that pops and burns your mouth I mean that's another safety risk so there's always all kinds of her wrists and try to eliminate all of them shellfish you never cook that to eliminate any viruses that are in it you uncooked shrimp at 90 degrees Celsius or you know

12 minutes to eliminate viruses much more of the wrist and produce something that still is a double so I absolutely agree I mean it's all about you have to balance your risk and if you are really worried about things like a lot of food safety experts won't eat Sprouts because they taste awful I didn't especially if I mean they taste like they're poisoning you do you know

like I talk to sauteed mung bean sprout baby I like your idea of what I serve this is my family that's a good rule of thumb right enough to know that it goes out of the question but I put this in front of My Wife and Kids which I think is like says a lot about kind of where your gut is on something without coming out and saying this is safe so that should someone get sick they come back and you cuz you said it was safe which is not necessarily a good idea food safety experts people in part of people who work on the codes for it and is that

the average person who doesn't cook for a living or isn't you know school doesn't necessarily know what risks are taking on when they're when they're eating something and that it's the goal of the food safety rules to make sure that there are no unknown risks that people are assuming right so listen you know I'm cooking this fish and I'm there might be increased histamine levels because of the way that I prepared it low temperature are you cool with that you want to meet then they're cool with it but they don't want a situation where someone's thrown into a situation without them knowing and so they write kind of draconian codes and what do you what do you think about that a problem

well yeah I mean in some sense that like an idea of universal accessibility if someone say immune-compromised and goes into a restaurant and order something that doesn't stay at the high-risk you would hope that they would feel safe and doing that so I can certainly see the perspective of erring on the side of caution

the longest we can have that copy out of well yes this is a fire risk

let's pretend that you understand what those risks are and have this delicious food. The chefsteps procedure procedure for up to a level that is you know that it's in any thermal death curve that's why the available but it's a series of hurdles that make it safe and they did the challenge test to prove that it stays clear clearly that's safe but in general some of the traditional aspects like for instance the pre-salt on a comfy or the herbs in a comfy like you like some of the hurdles to bacterial growth

then and then therefore make it make it more dangerous but what about the fact that there are all these things that are safe but we can't prove them because very few of us have the opportunity to do a challenge test

yeah it's true I mean a lot of traditional techniques have additional hurdle things that make it more difficult for the pathogens to multiply and grow and overtime up children I mean pickling and things like this work the asset slowly goes through the meat and then you would be led to think from the current food code that just says all you need to cook it to the temperature to afford to be safe

how how do we know which of these weekend eliminated which one do you need to keep well the science hasn't really caught up to give us those answers yet so are you using a blowtorch in the background I love that

no I'm not I'm not sure what the signal that sound like a sound like it's like a blowtorch which I like but do you think that there is any possibility in the future of developing based on worst-case scenarios right saying okay we're going to take these let's say five proteins at their various respected fat levels and and actually create a calculator that says this much salt this many of like know this kind of ending like have some sort of hurdles calculator is that even a possibility and how much would it cost will take a little bit of funding of science but that's certainly something even I would like to do in the coming decade or so is calculators like the a calculator you some step step side I would love to make more calculators like that but get into things like oh if you want to make a modern

version of a traditional recipe what things do you really need to make it safe and delicious for our modern palette I think that's very doable and something I want to do that like a $200,000 problem like a half a million dollar problem or a million dollar problem

I know I was depending how cheaply undergraduates work there are people out there who are interested in data hard data that has to do with delicious instead of hard data that has to do with straight safety and so it's it seemed it like you know now there's more ability to get funding for for this kind of weather it be on Kickstarter like the guys the underground food Collective you know that they're working on their other within Source or or something else that seems like you know if we got everyone to chip in a couple of bucks if we knew how much it was going to cost to do all the challenge studies and you know make all that all the worst-case you know curves for these things is a sign that you know people will be willing to Pony up for without even having to go to you know the feds for grant money you know

yeah it would be nice I mean some other countries are a little more willing to do the experiments and be a little more flexible with traditional recipes I was rather surprised when the New South Wales guidelines for sous-vide cooking they were much more willing to come to the science instead of just sticking to the traditional equivalent of their food code problem with that here here especially in New York is that once once the government takes a stand on its very hard to back off you know what I'm saying especially when safety is involved it's it's much easier to be reasonable if you haven't already taken a stance by being

the first jurisdiction to kind of Enter The Fray you no one really thinks that that happened in a good way but you know once you're out there you're out there and that's it I'm so there you have that I couldn't find any death curves for parasites in in fish other than freezing deathkart I couldn't find any any thermal death curse for worms in your nematodes and all this other stuff in in fish are those things available have you seen them

nun come to mind but I do have hundreds upon hundreds of research articles and hard to remember all of them to mention some other time that you're going to eat raw and this includes fish that you're going to low temp so that's fundamentally wrong if you're eating a variety of fish that is that pasta has a worm that might possibly you know be hosted in a human freeze that's Tucker at that you know you should get it actually done by the processor Frozen as if it was going to be served for sushi and that's just to Safeway to go you know me short but like for instance like some stuff that's not necessarily pre Frozen but you know that you might want to cook not too hard Todd for instance right but to those warm

I think it's possible for there to be things in COD that can transmit but anyway so things like it nobody likes it nobody likes to butcher a card and see those worms come out you were talking about a disgusting you know that's one of the few things I can see where you know you're buying a fish it's not necessarily you know Frozen for sushi cuz no one's eating that that way that you might cook a little under but again like that's the reason that you I don't think I could find the courage is I don't think anyone's bothered to do the thermal death curves on those things to know

yeah I think you're probably right on that because when you fry a Cod Man is dead by other Vino fish that they could batter and Fry almost any way for any of the bacteria you've definitely killed all of the larger organism yeah yeah all the worms so he has a question by Def of course things like botulism spores rent things like that and then wipe us out who knows but everyone is worried I think kind of been correctly about the not incorrect worry about this job

but it is a incorrectly crazily worried about the anaerobic bacteria like botulism and and and yes it's true you know they grow in these environments and yes it's true you don't know you don't kill the spores and so it's very easy for them to kind of regenerate but what's not true I think is like the kind of level of paranoia people have about it because if see I think it becomes an issue when you're pushing the boundaries of what's good practice I think that if you treat the food gets in a bag the way you would treat any other decent food product that you care about that you're not going to be In Harm's Way you know keep it refrigerated although you know there have been studies and I'm sure you've read them that people have gotten botulism spores to generate and reproduce you know in fridge when the temperature fluctuates even slightly above you know even at 40 but

read the day to myself but I'm really not worried about it you if you were going to be at home then you need to worry a lot about botulism and house doors and house process but you're just making up vegetables for that dinner tonight then you don't have to worry about boxes at all and I think it's the same way with two V cooking if you're preparing it for tonight or tomorrow or even the next day

there just isn't any worry about or you shouldn't be worried about botulism it's only if you want to use it for extended storage that you have to worry about it at all and the long as you have a good cold refrigerator which if you're serving people in the restaurant setting or commercial said he don't have a thermometer in their fridge I think if they would just fit a thermometer and say oh yeah in around 45 Fahrenheit then yeah maybe we need to not store this for so long that would be good one last thing before we I think we need to do like on a summary of like a note summary of this app

one thing that that low temperature cooking does do is you do have the possibility where is you don't with many other cooking techniques of actually rendering something absolutely safe for people to consume and I think that's another that's another thing where you know this goes awry is that we give people data to pasteurize you know a rare steak such that you know you could serve it at a hospital where you can serve it to someone who's you know you know really is immune system is been ravaged by whatever and it'll be totally safe and so when you give those numbers it implies that anything less than that is not safe for the average person consume which is not the case it just goes to show that there's such an increased level of safety is possible with this technique what it what do you think about that

no I agree it's a common misconception that just because you can process us they've if you don't process that cream doesn't mean it unsafe if you need not be advised not a not something else so no I think the point that you can make food much safer than with traditional methods and still have say A medium rare done this is a huge Advantage I think that's what you're trying to say that it's summary right if you don't feel comfortable cooking it in a particular way cuz you don't then don't do it one right then to if someone has a recipe that has a series of very specific like turtles have instructions this level of salt this level of acid this level of time this cooking thing

then probably and it's been tested don't deviate from it because that's the only thing we can guarantee that's safe if safety is your primary concern right and then beyond that that that you know really most of the time we don't cook to pasteurize because we're not cooking to eliminate all of the risks that are involved because we're not dealing typically a lot of us with people that are apt to get sick from that sort of thing and secondly even in those cases it's a good idea to do General things like a kill step on the surface of something where most of the contamination is going to take place and that's going to kill most of the stuff that's going to go on and that's really kind of the answer to it and if you just do those two things then cooking with these kinds of techniques for presuming that you're not trying to store things for a long time or not trying to get away with things that you wouldn't other

guys doing your kitchen is it really introducing a lot of excess risk what do you do you agree or no or something like this I want you to put something up cuz I don't really I don't block any more do much more internet stuff so we need to just write like hey look at like here's what's really going on you think you guys feel like put something up like that or no

how many weeks are in last Summoner next class coming up but maybe we can just get it thank God I hopefully you know Ken's happy hopefully we know we cleared up a bunch of misconceptions I think that that people have especially when they hear people that sound like they're disagreeing but really aren't you know in terms of what's safe and what's not I hope everyone on Black Friday goes to chefsteps what's the name of the course

suvee cooking beyond the basics

thank you for listening to the show in our industrial World highly processed food and wine for the value of Heritage Radio Network all of it that encourage everything you eat and drink to learn more about it go to clean fine. Com

time for one question from that color

hello hey how you doing Mike rinder I said to send you a tweet to find out if you had any other ideas in terms of low-cost options and how well they work I don't know grinding things is difficult and most grinding machines don't they have a very specific range of particle sizes that they're good at taking from one to the other so very few things are capable of taking whole items and introducing them down to very very very tiny particles things are good in a Range grinder that's relatively extremely old school but inescapable over long periods of time of Fairly fine particle sizes and also good distribution

traffic Riders are based on this you know Agave grinders for production of tequila traditional ones are our or any Agave Spirit are like this and also in India for grinder things like a Ali another another kind of wet doze and call wet Grinders and fundamentally a rock or to rock that spin in over another Flat Rock and it just keeps spinning and has expanded that

that end in India they make home appliances to do this and those are the ones that most people are using and I bought one years ago it was available to time was the Santa you know santha it was because some knucklehead dropped it and I and I and so I no longer have one but I think they're great at what they're great are there some other ones that I haven't tried so the Santa has to kind of regular cylindrical Stones there's ones that have cone shaped stones that roll around I've never used them I like the Santa you know its limitations are fundamentally its size and the fact that if you don't have the right texture in the stuff that you're grinding it it has a hard time processing it so we would use it to make like stupid smooth nut nut pace and

like so much better than so much better than what people make when they may be like have you taste my nut butter on my or like like a rough grind in a food processor and then we would throw it in the Santa and have it go but the trick is you have to get the Liquid level right in or it doesn't process right so we would always go back in like you know no offense of California almonds with the low in oil so we would add oil to something like that were processing and chocolate but you have to go for relatively long periods to get the texture right like on the order of two days something like this but my answering the question or are you looking to do

Conjuring as well as I wanted to do an experiment on you know taking everything topping on bagels and making a butter out of that garlic and everything. I don't know how well it'll liquify induce you might need to add some oil to it and I would definitely recommend taking everything too a fine dust in a in my advisor prepper a food processor or something like this or Sesame and all that you're going to grind them in poppies in it in some form of Grindr first cuz you're not going to be able to put that stuff into a Santa and just walk away from it it's not going to work you know what I mean it needs to the Santa needs to start with something it's already some form of paste and then once it's already some form of pace it'll just keep on rockin

now it's all going through my head when I cash it was already in my head because I got reference before but now Keep On Rockin in the Free World is not going to leave my head okay go ahead

thanks for coming in to name a tree kitchen the other day delicious delicious obviously even though that was theoretically at least he couldn't eat dinner that night cuz we had so much but it's all delicious I encourage you all to visit may may kitchen you guys still on the food truck as well though right it was so what would you call that neighborhood in Boston

it's a Southview campus area transportation your city is a nightmare to drive around I know that everyone always tells you this but it's crazy it's a crazy City to drive in

I think we lost 80 but yeah this last question before the show ends Austin rates in about Fireball whiskey quick summary Fireball whiskey has been recalled some Fireball whiskey has been recalled in Norway Sweden and Finland after the North American formula that contains propylene glycol trip to Europe Europe has a ban on propylene glycol and as a result Fireball whiskey creates two different formulas from North America and Europe one with PG the other without propylene glycol ingredient that has a concentrated Industrial Level things like antifreeze on a pharmaceutical food grade level is used as liquid sweetener things like soda to Payson to be safe at this less concentrated food grade level and then why is it banned in Europe but not in the US and considering its use and things like these cigarettes Too Faced makeup and soda is this recall retrieve a deceiving undue attention and scrutiny or is it Justified and how pissed off should we be

disagreement use is used in Fireball you should be more pissed off at your drinking Fireball I mean the stuff is like like rancid like overly sweet like baked cinnamon based liquor and it should be banned everywhere that's the main concern the stuff is like from a taste-making standpoint poisonous much more so than if you were a drink straight propylene glycol and inherent in the summary are a couple of things that aren't exactly true so when people put their stuff on the go on the internet and it runs rampant like it's like the people did this with twinkies and Holbrook

bangus out propylene glycol is used as an ingredient in food food application antifreeze is because it's non-toxic and it doesn't freeze and it's also unlike things like ethanol which is also used in food grade antifreeze formulations propylene glycol Water Solutions have a better heat transferring capability and in cooling system then does alcohol water solution and so they are just better typically they're just better to use antifreeze and things like ethanol and water and they're using food-grade systems unlike propylene glycol has cousin everlane glycol which is what most typically using car antifreeze is relatively toxic compared to propylene glycol which is not you should know is not good to feed the cats

free that's why people who hate neighborhood cats like put out bottles of antifreeze because the stuff is sweet and cats go in that stuff up and it messes with their red blood cells and can cause this thing called Heinz bodies no relation to the ketchup even though it's in the red blood cells and the ketchup Heinz bodies and can be very bad for cats but that appears to be something that is really typically only in cats now let's head to and propylene glycol by the way other than the fact that it doesn't freeze you know right away and so it's using antifreeze name is used for a number of other properties it's a very good solvent because it can bind with polar and nonpolar things it it's not really slightly I tasted it it's like I don't really like it it's like tight it's like I wouldn't call Sweet it's like marginally there but it also like absorb moisture out of the air has a lot of different purposes it is not banned in the EU the EU has a

very specific quantity that they allow you to have nothing but I got the present 25 mg per kilogram body weight daily allowance of propylene glycol is based on the no adverse effect level in long-term rat studies in which a lever the maximum tolerated dose has not been reached and furthermore this is direct quotes from the EU documents a safety factor of 100 was used to establish this 81 on the basis of the metabolism of propylene glycol its total toxicity profile and the large human experience with oral and parenteral pharmaceutical preparations parenteral much on a vehicle

multiply that by a whereas in the US propylene glycol has a g r a s General Garden as safe rating meaning it doesn't have the same limitations furthermore the recipe for Fireball did contain propylene glycol in Europe but just not as much propylene glycol and so they should the u.s. formulation which has slightly higher amount so I have a lot of more to get to but we're not going to get to it because I'm being ripped off

thanks for listening to this program on Heritage Radio Network. Org you can find all of my archived programs on a website for S podcast in the iTunes Store by touching Heritage Radio Network you can like us on Facebook and follow us on Twitter at Heritage underscore radio you can email ask questions anytime at info at Heritage Radio Network. Org Heritage Radio network is a 501 c 3 nonprofit to Denise and become a member visit our website today thanks for listening