Cooking Issues Transcript

Episode 186: JUSTINO!

today's program has been brought to buy Whole Foods Market a dynamic leader in the quality food business a mission-driven company that aims to set the standards of excellence for food retailers for more information visit this is Chef Emily Peterson host of sharpen hot you're listening to Heritage Radio Network broadcasting live from Bushwick Brooklyn if you like this program visit Heritage Radio Network. Org 4000

networking Bushwick how you doing how you guys doing so I have something for you to stassia handing her those either can't see because this is the radio I'm heading her at her personal copy of intelligence a new book which is not official yeah but will be out soon we're going to do a meeting tomorrow at are the after tomorrow in Madison could go to Madison Wisconsin you want to talk about what we're doing with her dad and you're doing on food science book signing can you believe it

she's messing with somebody else it pay no attention is that in the stars who loves like the so inside joke is not funny for anyone else

by the way I don't know why but I'm sure you do like a here at the radio show nastassia is the hammer right but her official like job description is a she keeps the wheels on the bus at Booker and Dax I was thinking about this right now is to me that always imply that you were the bus driver right yeah but it's assumed you were also driving it which I was always wondering like how is it that you end up underneath the bus so often and I think it's because the bus and you know is so rickety the wheels are always falling off the dang bus and you have to go underneath your under fixing it and then as soon as I start about that like it hot on the way over I think that's how that's how the stuff

I'll get some of the questions from this week and next week the the book signing is during the radio show so we either have to like it we don't have to do a live from Star chefs and then like you know pipe it in and it beforehand maybe or or postpone it's up to you could probably get in there and do Starships Starships do the book signing here at the radio show everybody who's been there some food bookstore up like ever and every year they have a booth at Star chefs and so they do book signings there so I'm going to do in there but you guys ever gone to Starships actually never been

Tony has the Radio Show in there we know your radio show but I'm sure the radio next week I Centre always some problem always got to be some problems but thanks for all your tips on helping me prevent another allergic reaction to this child to Michael natkin for underscore in the severity of allergies so far so good for me I'm keeping my flour in the freezer

for those who didn't listen to give you the five second read out some liquid smoke Liquid Smoke is an actual honest-to-god product has been around a long time there's a lot of places you can look up on how to make your own Liquid Smoke the problem with liquid smoke that you buy in the store as most of it is just like kind of monotonic and and not that good but is derived from a real smoke and the most the time the remove a lot of the carcinogenic stuff so are you sure salad nicoise you think of anything right. If you go to the Wikipedia

that's over to go to Wikipedia it says that a salad nicoise is composed of tomatoes tuna hard boiled eggs needs whilst vinaigrette is served variously on a plate platter in a bowl with without a bed of lettuce tuna may be cooked or can and then a bunch of others that the salad may include raw red peppers no not my not Robert Peppers now I saw the beans in there where the beans beans beans anyway may include that shallots and artichoke hearts but according to many sources excludes cook vegetables except for green beans and potatoes which I think have to be there the boil potatoes and the green beans have to be there if it's not like what the hell you need a potato to go with with anchovy and the tuna and a heart needs a potato in the green beans all that other stuff artichoke hearts listen I love artichoke hearts but they'll be putting the artichoke heart

thing that you can go kind of try to figure out what it is so I went to escoffier rise coffee and then my recipes so I see what what my man is kefir escoffier says that it is equal quantities of string beans potato Dice and I say with tomatoes decorate I can see that got cut off because I'm a jerk and quartered Tomatoes which and then whatever decorate with capers small pitted olives small turn it off at the station is small pitted olives mean like we're such brutes that we can't let get the actual kind of olive like this was translated into whatever we were different country back in the 70s but if you hit in dollars

have you ever had pitted olives in a nice was you ever had to put out the nicoise olives for you

me neither. I wouldn't want to go that you would mutilate a nicoise olive by pitting it right anyway. I was back in the 70s like you be like we got the two kinds of Silence we got the green ones with the pimento and we got the black ones

which one you want you going to say small you might as well just call out the olive cuz back then it was the same amount of impossible same as possible anyway and anchovy fillets season with oil and vinegar what's that recipe missing right also I don't see the with hard boiled egg in there I don't see the whole thing sounds like personals like this made me doubt everything else in this book I was like this book is is a load of malarkey like you need me to throw this book away I need to burn it and go buy a new copy of the stuff here right so then where did I go next I went to Capella Pratt was one of my favorite old school books

an impeller Pratt you got a string beans potatoes Tomatoes hard boiled eggs anchovy fillets green pitted olives green I'll consider consider them like a grayish brownish greenish gray Spanish football football football football football shaped like a football shaped squares and square in salt in boiling water or coolant drain big Satchel guess what no freaking meat chunks of tunny fish preserved in oil that's like like that's like putting it as like a what's it called as you know a you know maybe you can have it maybe it maybe you can't I then looked and Harry's dictionary of classical modern cookery another old

one has a lot of French stuff in there as well although they call it a nice salad why would you translate the town that whatever they say translate Milan who the hell to do that

French beans quarters and peeled tomatoes and fancy fancy shapes potatoes so they have the turned potatoes by the way that's what fancy say potatoes mean you don't know if you actually went to the SEI like you spend the first week just turning potatoes into like little footballs and they make you go home in like 5 convert like 50 pounds of potatoes and little footballs hope they still do that because I was no point going to school is making a football is capers and original French dressing whatever the hell that means right that's super LG French dressing no tuna and finally I went to the source Alerus gastronomique and there

they also have no freaking tuna but they say sprinklers shop Cherryville and tarragon sounds nice I like her so there you have it move it closer related effects of coming out with tuna at most optional thing so I wonder at what point do swallows became a two and a heavy thing or you prefer fresh to another like Siri or do you prefer the can tuna stay there I think I like the can with hard-boiled eggs I think with hard-boiled eggs I like the candy and CSF you spend the extra money on like ventresca or do you not you not that kind of expensive but you know what that relations

straight talk weird weird weird effects

let's see what else Christopher bass Kristoff Road and his name is not fast about that I don't think we talked about this we've been cooking a black bass fresh from the lake for 2 hours at 128 Fahrenheit with by the way for you so she's folks out there is 53.333 it turns out more tender delicious delicious and cook the perfect and I did not realize that some fish benefit from longer cook times usually doesn't hold up well to Long cook times even at lower temperatures out at especially lower temperature. I'm not sure what to call this affected happens there any relation or is it just not getting mushy for some reason I think that's the problem is when you're cooking fish

here's the thing they like you. When you cook Meats you're looking to make them more tender fish starts out tender and what you're looking to do is had it not go mushy and not go dry rice if there's kind of two things that can happen to it it can stay moist with turn mushy that stinks or it can go drop what do you think about like overcooked swordfish steak that we didn't care if like you know giant worm came out we didn't care everyone had a swordfish but you know you doubt that sucker and oil and put the hell out of it out of it like sometimes like in a freaking oven for fish you cook in an oven just throw the fish in a freaking oven and and just like stringy block like like overcooked

so many memories and then and then they like overcooked shark a shark like back in the 80s like like shark steaks like overcooked freaking sharks takes it was good because you salted the hell out of them but they were otherwise do you remember the night will you be you were too young but you remember the 1980s pork chop the same over cooked fried pork chop my mom did those did you score with the new white me right over cook swordfish over whenever I don't know how I got out of this but the point is is that you're always in this race when you do low temperature you don't have to overcook it so that it gets dry but the problem is if you can get mushy and can also get squeaky so I overcooked swordfish is not only dry one Toronto to my selfish and I haven't had a sortation like a year it's not supposed to eat anymore right

worried about I do avoid tuna when I'm out I do and avoid Bluefin know I love it when you meet someone orders it and shows up like I'll eat it by would never order it even though I love it going to get the Japanese people as you say might as well eat it now because I think I spelled going a little bit overboard mean by like hopefully we'll get some sort of Godzilla 2 come on land and eat us all three fires and start a giant godzilla to know it's kind of like weird is not hadn't thought about it that the Monster films like a predicated on like this excess radiation like

drop the atomic bomb in the kind of obsessed with radiation Godzilla as a product of radiation and so you know now they have actual other kind of sources of radiation over there I wonder whether it's going to Spur some sort of camera of the sea is a back to Kristoff in his best a lake fish I don't even know what the heck was talking about his image so I don't have a lot of experience with with a freshwater fish sous-vide with exception of trout but you know I know that certain fish get really crappy when they cook for a long time and certainly don't and I know you referenced I think you reference the blog post I did the stripers and stripers can stand for a long time I think maybe because they're relatively firm so they don't go mushy

John you like they they are relatively firm fish which is why I think when they over-cooked they're like even stripers when they're hard right that's why I think like a can stand up just a little more structure to it and get the strong freaking fish you know what I mean and I try to look up things that go wrong one there connective tissue to get broken down over cooking right and there are are enzymes in in fish that a breakdown the flesh which is why something like shellfish Francisco Super mushroom you cook a low temperature so the two things that you're looking at but I wasn't able to find any actual

a listing of fish what you're looking for is that that the two protease is that are in it our conceptions of these was breaking down the fish and I couldn't find a listing of which ones have more enzymes and then within which ones don't think Nikki might have is a ready reference which ones get my share in on food and cooking I should have looked there but stupidly I did not do it

so that's so that's so if you know that that the black bass is can take a long time without going mushy then that's good to know just watch out for weakness man I hate squeaking

now also by the way I was while I was researching that question I found an interesting article that you guys might be interested in called to see if I was stupid enough to it I was to write it down but it's stares at a table I found called Slaughter conditions on it like a glycogen concentrations 3 minutes post-mortem in chicken breast muscle which is a fantastic looking article because they anesthetized that they did a Nessa tizing of the chicken stoning of the chicken struggling chicken and it's adapter for an article I wasn't able to find buy a person named defremery in 1966 was the only reference I have to anesthetize slaughtering practices and a chicken's of anyone can find that article is Anthony I be I be super happy I think I found that in and maybe I found that in the biochemistry of food which is a dashiki Teese 2013

is reading the book liquid intelligence here's why it's where we blend

and we planned a product like most often like a fruit or sometimes a drive-through sometimes vegetable independent does mushrooms with clear again and you get these like a Slicker sweet Agostino and I originally in the book wrote the whole story about how fabulous and we were running around screaming who steno at the top of our lungs which is actually just a bastardization of a chef named Justin and so we just used to walk around the kitchen going

running around and ask for cuz we're stupid and this reporter, what's the name of this drink right about it and we were like

and then like they printed it and then that was it there was calling steeno and it was too late to go back but then when I wrote this story ends like this is a dumbest freaking story in the world is so freaking stupid like you can't put this in the book because a it like there's no context to it like the rest of the book isn't about you running around like an idiot it's about you running around like trying to figure out how to make things better and just coming out of out of nowhere it so it's better just to be like call Justino I don't know why I don't know why it's called Destino

say okay we already did the do we do the Hoshi food truck one right with the sausage can we do a briefly last week house food truck ordinance and remembering issue are you covered brats are sausages immersion with b r e can you share tips and we did that one right into the next packing up on this last week and you're like you're like hacking your lungs up all over the floor nice that's going around can you discuss the merits of an auto by step in bread making SLI rather than mixing into the dough after an auto ISTEP thanks Sam or have your right size of French lights meaning breaking up into the original this comes from a dead by the way.

2005 named Raymond calvel who was kind of one of the best-known kind of teachers and authors of about bread in his era his book and I think according to that my reference he was a professor of baking a pretty sweet Professor baking I can't even do you like the bag you could be like that Professor that's in a theory that should be radical Professor baking that everyone kind of moved away from at the at the at the baking Professor conferences

say what he taught. Julia Child and Simone Beck so there's a good pedigree right anyway dude came up with this idea of an Autolite step and so what he thought was happening you mix together like the water in the flower not the salt and you do an initial mix right and you let it sit around before you need it you don't need it right away right with a K need with a cakes and so what he thought was happening there was that and I forget maybe it's done as a higher hydration I can't I can't remember what if there is a hydration because

what is he think is happening is that amylase enzymes in the starch are breaking in the flower are breaking down from the starch into sugars for food for the yeast right I think that's why I've called Auto lease thing I like performing like lice means to break apart right so things are being broken down in it on its own and then you need it and then you let it go but I think that's that the origin of the term but I don't think anybody really does that anymore right I don't think that's the reason why people do that rest anymore so she'll probably come up with a different name I think what's happening what are most people say they're doing to do is they let it rest and by the way the reason you don't put the salt in and you let rest out the salt if you're giving the yeast and the other stuff a chance to get started in a zero salt environment because of salt is a yeast in Hibbett her right now remember it's all ice staff is not being done on bread typically they're near like a lot of people know when they're doing their bread to space

like higher hydration stuff for doing some some version of lesser no knead Lahey style like with the other member cesare said That's My Style or less need super long fermented bread and for those I think it's probably ideal to put the salt in the beginning cuz you're trying to prevent a yeast from working right away whatever so you are doing without the shop and these things are happening and then I think are really Beyond any sort of enzymatic action is happening there the advantages are you have a period of hydration that's taking place without needing right but even if you were to add the salt and let it rest right what what you're getting there is a. Of hydration and in a lot of studies are that they gluten formation is really a function just a titration cuz why you if you're letting the dough sit for a long long time like like many many many hours you don't need

need it or you need much less meeting because there gluten will in fact for without all of that beating about right just by sitting around so this step is allowing you to get some hydration into it so that you don't need to do as much meeting and if and the benefit of not having to do as much meeting is things like less oxidation now but I wish we had talked about it like a month-and-a-half ago in the question came in and when I was more freshly thinking about what's going on but screen take a super quick break a recently shafted totally Captain Army super quick

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all right here by the last we're going to have time for another freaking catch up with whether or not we do it at starships were going to have to do to give you till 1 p.m. on the Josh Watson Road in applications could you please give a basic intro into a vacuum bag fermentation pickling safety on this way show hashtag carbonated so whenever you're doing something like sauerkraut or kimchi right you're automatically in an anaerobic fermentation situation right so I'm a safety standpoint you shouldn't be any different whether or not that anaerobic fermentation is happening in the bottom of your pickle jar or your sauerkraut jar or whatever your you know your kimchi jar

or whether or not it's a happening inside of a vacuum bag so

things like most of Spore forming bacteria they're going to grow that you know a note in it in a bad kind of a fermentation situation are going to like they're not going to compete so well if you have a whole bunch of lactic acid bacteria growing in there at the same time because the pH is going to drop and the and the salt level is going to eat your adding salt typically I wouldn't necessarily do it with super low salt I just because but so you're here you're putting salt in and then your ear the lactic acid bacteria are making a lower pH and this is what's preventing the nasty stuff from growing in there so the first thing to kind of realized is that they're fundamentally not that much of a difference between doing it the old school way and doing it in a vacuum bag now when you're doing one of the

advantages of doing it the old school way is it most people if they yourself and cabbage when you're salting cabbage

a lot of people add water because they don't have enough water from the Cabbage itself to make a nice crowd or whatever now I know it was talking to Lucas actually let you know listen to a friend of ours and beat the crap out of the cabbage with the salt so that it starts leaking enough liquid so that it can immerse himself in liquid white away so don't have to worry about you know or like I know like if you're making kimchi you're rubbing the salt and letting it sit for a while kind of pre weaves and you have enough liquid to repack into it that's one way to get around it but literally

you just throw the stuff in vacuum bags and you suck a vacuum on it and Shaboom first of all you injected the liquid in the salt into the into the product which obviously need to beat the crap out of it because you're crushing some of the dino you getting the stuff into the into the pores anyway as it is and the other cool thing is is that they're super neat little tidy package is right you don't need to have that giant proxy pushdown you don't have to worry about the giant cross that you push down and she's really clean and neat the problem with the vacuum bags when you're doing it is that they blow up and they can explode so what I always do is eye bag in one I throw it in to another bag and I lightly bag that one I don't like bother you no sucking huge vacuum on it and so that way and it's a larger bag that way if the smaller bag on the in the inside inflates the point where it blows up it just blows

into your bags not into this is conducive to if you need to do a bunch of portions and have them like you want to have like you know like a quart of the time it's coming out not as conducive if you're doing like 55 gallon barrels because it's much more efficient to just beat the stuff down and put it in a giant 55 gallon barrel and Let It Rock and Roll even like a gallon I would say just do it normal if you're doing like that you have a head of cabbage or two I would say vacuum bag is a really really good way to go until he's safe and I've done it many many times not allowed to see if so it will get lightly carbonated and we spoke to bring your kimchi

or do you actually does not like I needed to talk to that we need to talk on air about okay so listen

okay we're talking about to see results on the way out the first of all we would like to apologize for how long it took us to get the stuff out in general and like stars which shipped and I am like so shocked like I am beyond

shocked and angered at at Amazon how long it took them to fulfill the orders how long they had those Sears Al's in their warehouse and shipping it out and was really depressing is it No One Believes us it's Amazon they should put the next day and then remember like so like we sent the stuff with a we had some errors in our in our address is so we gave him an updated address list for and then date Amazon decided last week and start suddenly start selling them but before all of our Kickstarter and saucer people have gotten their orders in and then

stars like calls me like what I'm working on something I'd freaks out and we like losing our mind and then we we tell people this is a mistake

these people who don't believe us like why would we want to why would we want to not fulfill the very quickly called Amazon orders cancelled the good news is it's already been shipped out but not a lot is that all you said three names of the people that want to read a map a map of all the three of you have gotten your searzall notification most of you have it in the mail already we've been checking don't see no obvious they're going to take longer because of Customs so long ago only Sears off have been shipped out so we're super excited we're going to have the estate decorator coming in soon I hope the Proto that we going to approve it and get there

or any confirmation email searzall at Booker and Dax. Com you have not gotten an email saying you're going to receive your searzall like we think you have zero email at all Zero from anything UPS USPS Amazon but I'm super happy that people seem to be enjoying it and have it so I'm very gratified I love all the Twitter stuff that you guys are sending with the results coming in there some flame coming out of the front is this normal hell yeah oh yeah doesn't hear some serious all cooking issues with program on Heritage Radio Network. Org

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