Cooking Issues Transcript

Episode 170: Cup4Cup

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if you happen to have gotten our message that were predicted that you can still call him your questions to 718-497-2128 that's 718-497-2128 today we have a very special guest in the studio we have an earthquake who is the founder of for cup gluten-free like kind of like the best known for years

for those of you who have Celiac or perhaps you are one of those people that for some reason I do understand just reduces your gluten intake even though you have no problem with it you choose as being that there's been no very good kind of straight replacement for wheat flour that works in Uno variety recipes and one of the reasons is because we are kind of a miracle so you know that I'll let her tell the story and we got we got the Jack over in the booth and we had a movie actually Lynn his publicist to one of you tell me a little story about to have a cup of cup came to exist right

I don't know if I'd say that but we definitely focus on quality control so and one of the things I noticed was that the chef's work about 14 to 12 hours a shift and so these are really creative creature creative individuals and they had no time to experiment with all their Innovative thoughts and so I wrote out a proposal at the end of my internship to create a physician R&D chef at the French laundry and then shut the time Corey Lee he actually took this concept and took it to Thomas and I was accepted as a chef and from there I did a lot of diet restrictions for diabetic dishes and then also gluten free and vegans and with a one dish that really resonated well with the shafts were the gluten-free bread and so from there we started developing

products because people are coming in and crying over pieces of bread because I haven't had it for seven years and with spot a year-and-a-half we drove into this projects and start developing a gluten-free flour line I think so many people might not understand probably listeners to the show understand but how much care you know restaurants you know at this level take with people who have everyone knows it's just hate when people have restrictions. Sorry sir I hate it when someone has died like there are the chefs who you know it is it is there style in there as artist you know they feel so passionate about what they serve they want to change anything because it is their piece of work however there are other group of chefs to understand also there's it's experience you know and everyone has a preference of an individual so who are you to also tell individual how to eat something even so there's two schools. I don't believe one or is better

the other however you know for Thomas it's really about how Gus Takes in the experience and he wants to make it everything he doesn't want to dilute anything just because you may have a restriction so he wants to elevate that whole experience for you they get all hot and bothered when someone has Diet restriction is it and this is what I think people don't understand that the person's going to the same as when someone ask for their steak well done The Afters worries that this person is actually not going to have a good experience at the restaurant because now the chef has to cook something that the chef doesn't like or Chef doesn't respect or Chef doesn't know whether the quality of the same and they want the quality to be as good no matter what they put out they want to be proud of what they put out and they want all the customers to have

you know the best possible experience and I think it's the nervousness that they're not going to be able to do that in the face of certain dietary restrictions that gets a lot of lot of shaft bent like a pretzel but you know the fact that matter is that the more kind of high-end more expensive restaurant are the more typically they'll bend over backwards to try to accommodate this stuff if they can if they want to guide someone experienced to the level that they understand is experts what's going to be the best way to prevent one dish but at the same time those people who have certain you know specific needs or you know they don't particularly like certain things that I can allow themselves experience that the way may be a chef would like and so rather than fighting that I think it's just give people what they want you know they're coming in to have a certain level of expectation when they sit down you know they're paying for their mail and I really believe that you know you have to accommodate people as they come in because they're your

you know when you're trying to develop something that is gluten-free flour that works for kind of any application right I mean there's a lot of issues with that because a lot of recipes right use one aspect of wheat flour and a lot of recipes use different aspects of wheat flour and very few very few things you know act like like wheat flour and every kind of situation so how did you how do you go about taking up this kind of approach this kind of a problem. I'm so glad you brought this up I can give you a hug because it's so hard to really explain to people you know that flower is such a complex single-ingredient you know of anything because of my resource development through this I've had such a deeper appreciation for flower and its performance but yes there are different types of wheat flour that people don't really always consider people would call in

cup4cup can you make bread and yes you could formulate you know recipe using that ingredient but if I can perform the best bread flour while because it has higher gluten content and even all purpose flour is different from bread flour and and so I think it's very hard for people to understand that there are there are different applications for just regular flour that you know with copper cup what I really focused on was what were people missing the most from baking with cookies quick breads Popeyes biscuits I felt like that was what the home cook is looking for so I really need to develop something that was more like pastry flour if anything however able to perform in different recipes as a multi-purpose in fact a lot of those lot of those applications people try to jump out the gluten in potato and in a lot of ways so those are kind of good good applications but even fry

also it works better with like tempura batter is because there's no gluten that's going to cause it to be a soggy fry batter

I don't mean personally I don't like to eat a lot of fried but I definitely like a crispy chips to my list. Like like many like a very tweaked-out Japanese techniques people think that it's kind of the height of the fry and I just I think that you know I've had some very good name for a chef's make stuff for me I'm like yes this is good do I think this is the height of fried know it's something that mean like a batter actually I like it when it really is a very thin shattered fry if you're talkin about specific frying methods is not my favorite people tempura before I get it's good but then it's like also like you need to eat it instantaneously they under fry it so it's so freaking blind and it's like you know whatever I don't want to

application that you say nothing of the way to hit things that people miss the most but a lot of people are going to bring up bread the most difficult I mean the most difficult but he said you know it's one of those things that takes touch technique and years of experience to make good Brad you know and I again it's not something that we're not working on it's going to be a lot more work than just pastry flour now aside from the gluten the actual starches like wheat starch Works differently from other kinds of starches and how many reasons right one is because of the different kind of did the actual texture of the flower when it's ground the Grand at Randal structure right and then there's how they how the actual structure that is another reason you can't let say just do all rice flour is because it acts totally differently and it will be like a rice fun or a rice noodle which is now if people are looking for correct

cornstarch which taxes when you think about flower and its performance and recipe it's a filler you know it really is the body of body of the recipe in a baking formula and then you have rice flowers that is going to provide more of a textural difference because cornstarch is just too fluffy and then the other ingredients are really for elasticity purposes you know how do you find because that's what flower does as well as Vines and it will be able to within the baking process house team and everything works hold its shape and so that's really how the formula goes to the other ones have cornstarch have rice what else you got in here which is another thing that is really important to point out it adds tenderness a lot of other gluten-free flours they have limited Dairy because they want a larger market when you do dairy free gluten free everything free you know but for us when we decided this if I took out the

Connor it was going to be performing flour and it's no solids right so still no lactose in it you know and it's very crucial to the baking process it will create a cook tender crumb proteins are awesome but then you had that was the other one is tapioca straight to have yogurt and such strange have you ever had that a Brazilian cheese bread

now I've had Portuguese like corn cheese bread like brella delicious but it's fried and it's all chewy inside I used to have to when I was doing work on stuff you know years ago for the blog I was doing a lot of tapioca dozing and their pain especially liked or disliked really a pain have any gluten in it mean one of the things that you know we always used to do is just precook some of the stars because you know when you're working without the gluten things tend to be kind of like a Sandy agglomeration of things they don't tend to go up on you they just don't feel like the question is is do you have some pre-cooked in here as well without telling me like how it works or is it do we have to do without any pre-cooked snow pre-cooked because one of the things

was difficult with this process because when we developed the French Laundry in a French Laundry really Source from smaller you know Farmers just our resources are more vocal and for us to go out to a market and provide nationally we really need to start digging into resources. We could find large volumes for and so pre pre cooked starches if we don't work with them there now I see you have one here called wholesome that says it's dairy-free is a dairy-free Pride what do you have in in to make up for the dairy in that sucker are first response back to public people are really looking for non-GMO and what we found was it's really in the category with their missing whole wheat flour and so this is

solution for the whole wheat flour nutrient-dense performing so no milk powder about what we did add was ground flax seeds and so flax seeds you know with little bit more fat it adds texture and also creates that I guess textual difference in the quick Breads and pastries and it does absorb more water like whole wheat flour does so that's that's for sure yeah yeah flaxseed I did eight Longman anyone get into flexing it's not like a lot a lot of flaxseed right has equal parts fiber is whole wheat and then also has Omega fatty acids could you provide a flax seeds and rice bran as well as some people like so can grind flax seeds and eat that gummy pulpy stuff on purpose just like a zit know them healthy after after eating too much and I was going to grind up some

I was throwing flax seeds into my smoothie don't ever do any more than a 2tbsp it's all great and stuff for that is so so you know how many how many how many flowers as a pancake Waffle Pizza chocolate brownie and then are wholesome line which is actually in stores now at Williams-Sonoma it is we're going to look to extend it and released to other products behind it now you just came in last night from Del posto Mark Ladner is a big fan of being able to make all of this process gluten-free he uses which one does he use the OG last night on all of all the

just all of the Preston receive with the gluten-free pastas you know I've I hadn't had a chance to meet Mark and you know I ran into you guys last weekend out of it by the way we judged a pie I didn't talk about we judged we just we can talk about it and I went out to UCLA we were judging a not a pie eating contest pie making contest find making contest to people because just in case just in case there's over these biscuits are like freshmen sophomores that they're not listen to Skype it or not but like I said we had to eat like tonight 22 pipe and he wanted to know if you happen to have created that like the one kind of gluten-free like you know replacement for an hour but you actually can consume the gluten so we were eating these pies and for some reason we didn't

like a like a bit like one of the best pie crust there but I don't know like I was my face was buried in the I don't know what the hell happened but you know you had advocated for this child you're totally right and then later you're like I can't believe House of Pancakes so they have this class what's the name of the class at UCLA new member class teaches it and so we don't want to think she does is she know you're supposed to like learn some science I come up with an experiment and spaced around making apple pie excited about making pies first time going into it

freaking Christ I was like how much unsalted like rice if you have to eat because I think like it's like I think the problem is is Dan like people who use a recipe that chefs pinched technically is I think about a tablespoon even if you think about it and that's why people always when they say a pinch they take maybe half a teaspoon and they they throw it in that something people just need a taste someday and see whether or not like it tastes good people don't know yourself at and I have some huge issues with that book

what is specially I think he falls flat in the anti salt stuff because you cannot make decent baked goods or decent ice creams without salt and like people don't know how much salt is in a decent dough like when I was growing up are used to look at one of the schools with one of the bakeries on San Francisco I forget his name he came out with a book Me Before years ago and he said that over the past maybe even 12 to 15 years like salt levels have gone up and all of the Artisan breads at least in the west coast cuz I used to know do like maybe like a percent and a half people closer to 2% on bread yeah driveway basis so yeah I'm still have that back at Weasley one and a half and you don't need that much in a pie crust but something some salt flavors is composing music if you only use one note

would that be with you a different beats to it it's really going to extend play accentuate the sound of it and really focus and it's something with flavor so I actually had a Del posto this grade it was a dried apricot sorbet and he had dusted it with a little salt on top and it just brightens everything so you really need that offset flavor to really highlight the dish like unless unless you have salt-sensitive hypertension like salt your good buddy for flavor you know what I mean so their Crush they undercooked are crossed in general right but you know I will have to say it was a really fair stop at everything so here's what happens so this one is one crew is working on cooking the apples that was their stick the thickness of the Apple slice yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah cookie with calipers was the name of there their they're

magic there right and so they're like okay so they are project wasn't about to cross over the cross I just did Grandma's Crest I call my grandma like a real a real life or just some sort of bull crap you're trying to talk to him he's right now it's a real live grandma and I had to Chris Isaak Dan of that crusty good like that's a cross I want to eat because they had they had like they'd CO2 the top-right I had a little bit of sugar in a crush said it was beautiful like it's cooked all the way through it was actually flaky was like I know it's the only time I gave a 5 out of 5 went on the chart that we had something for you were like would you give this is someone with no lie questions asked in there trying to sit through my freaking papers when it was going on and like we were confused over to put me know which team was it I'm sorry Grandma's pie people cooking with calipers my fault my fault my fault

all right so let's go onto a quick question we had last week from a reader about gluten-free Nigel she wrote in hey Dave Anastasia because he didn't know you were here in Napier New Zealand North Island East Coast Pacific Ocean have you guys seen a lot of people to ask could you help me come up with a gluten-free solution solution right solution I plan on making profiteroles cream puffs eclairs that sort of thing for sale our local farmers market I'd like to have a gluten-free option available but I'm not sure what flour alternative would have the gluten type strength to sustain the shoe Patriot expansion during baking a Choux pastry everything because it's precooked right and so you get the you get the mess around a lot more with stuff with a Choux pastry than you would otherwise right now we're not but you know what really works with the shoe pastry is if you use a blend of different race flowers so you're going to have to use a blend of brown rice and also white glutinous rice

to kind of get that sticky dough I would say probably I would probably test around 50% of both white and brown rice and then and use it as weight with Patachou pastry recipe that's what I would say and it's going to be okay it's not going to have that weird look like look see through rice thing it will but you know I'm just thinking a half time I had without going into the formulation of comfort. So heavily if if it is just for pastry flour I have seen rice flour Blends work well because you're able to cook it and then it has enough of that starts quality will roll into a ball and because there is enough steam it will steam up and you will you want that hollow center so I would say the rice flour would be the best bet for the

easiest you know you don't try it out but people have done several different variations of recipes using this can be done and what in the you know one of those things that you eat like then if the benefits you have is it one of them more difficult things I'm told about working with you no Nann we flowers is the is the fact that the dose don't go here so well but because you're going to cut the crap out of the forehand you win yeah it's going to be easier to figure out with rice flour is definitely good to have it not be so rice see that's the thing yeah you're right

the most of it as the body is give me the rice knowing people are doing the stuff at home do they try to add stuff it's got like Wilmore that nuttiness right but then they where they at dad like buckwheat doesn't act right no Buckley doesn't act right you know what I like to do a lot to is to toast a flower you really are able to taste that that nutty flavor from it clear the corn he's not going to need any of the other stuff like tapioca not going to need that stuff and it's going to be hard like you're going to be able to get that without having to use tapioca potato anything else that's going to cause it to retract skip brown rice flour

so this is the difficult part when it comes to gluten-free flours are flowers in general there are so many different variations of one type of brown rice you know you could get up Rachel at night as you can get certain different grains you know the this starch structure you know from crop to crop a will change you know and so you that's that's what's going to be really difficult sourcing you know and it's going to be it's hard for me to say like one specific is going to be better than the other right now also like to know for instance like not harping on them but like Bob's Red Mills like like they're their rice flour I think I've had a package that once and it feels totally different from the stuff I buy a note in Chinatown which is like powder it's almost like rice starch and so powdery so that was one of the flowers that we tested with half a cup originally and the Asian flowers they go through a different process so they soak the

and then they mail it so that really produces a definitely a different flower that has little more moisture content and it performs completely differently from like American Star just cuz we don't go through that process here yeah because also like I've had terrible luck with rice like grinding your own rice but it's horrible like it's trying to look at me back when I when you go back when I was going to try anything once but like riding that stuff it's just like this like little pellets nightmares you know what I mean like it doesn't it's not

I'm actually having any good luck Millie my own wheat flour Ryder may I have a I have a few no Grain Mill but it's I don't really like it very much and like the really course the really course like whole wheat cycle it's like so I'll just kill her like I do need that you need that intense equipment to be able to support that grind cauliflower but I'd not the stuff that I make no sense to me no offense to me listen to take this week so I swear Rob next week I will talk to you like fiddleheads firms did you know this is very strange Priscilla fiddlehead fern that we eat is author trying to write so if we don't need Bracken although apparently in Asia many people eat Bracken and people living in Bracken in in the US for Millennia you know Native Americans meeting Brett Brackett get the kind of firm.. Don't care

but like the but the fact of matter is is it being a Bracken has some well-known I said well known carcinogens and it's like the most well known as I can't pronounce it but it's like a quill aside from some like this right in fact some people think that this would make like the kids consumption High consumption of bracken fern might be the reason why there is everyone's looking to figure out why more people get esophageal and stomach cancer in Korea let's say we have places around there and so a lot of being some people take it on like the inordinate amount of kimchi that's consumed but then said they were like hey how about the bracket like we all know the bracket and let me know has cancer-causing agents in it I don't think it's that much and high-volume where it affect it I don't know cuz I heard it was because alcohol consumption yeah because I think it's the population 80% are able to consume they don't have enzymes to break down alcohol and so they still consuming that's also control

to the highway so the paint. It is right that the 3rd you get two copies of the gene right so like most Caucasian style folk like myself have two copies of this topic me up in the alcohol dehydrogenase you can break down alcohol like nobody's business right then you have like a whole a whole like a Asian consort of people who have no copies single bright red and then you have people who have one copy that don't go bright red this is research a red they don't go bright red so they consume alcohol but they're more likely to get damaged like yeah Kansas and stuff so it's like that you have one copy where it's like dangerville capillaries where that's why you're turning red but I wonder if it affects different cultures as well I don't know I don't know if I will try to research more of The Brak and stuff but the ostrich Fern strangely

send the past 10 years people have had these weird food poisonings happen from undercooked fiddleheads real ones off bridge burned but nobody knows why and so the good news robberies is it is that if you were going to get poisoned it's not a cancer thing you would have gotten poison within about 12 hours but so you're good but people do recommend that you cook your fiddleheads like over companies act like way over cook them but I'm going to look into it more and I have a lot more information I can get to you next week on and an unfortunate I thought we would have had time to get the you can and Gramercy cuz he had a chewy crust problem with his pizzas

and we can talk about that because I think we know one of the issues I think people when I was growing up everyone that all they worried about with with flour with protein content right and like how hydration is affected by how the flowers milk but anyway we're going to Pizza

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