Cooking Issues Transcript

Episode 169: Pressure Cookers, Patrick Martins & Cheeseheads

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Arnold from late really late today huh son-of-a-gun well supposed to be around 12 to 12:45 speaking of or 12:50 I don't know what's 50/55 the fearless leader of our of our Network Patrick Martin has a book coming out soon he's coming around 4:42 around out the ground. The program in a little bit of discussion of the of Patrick's me book something later also we're being we're being brought To Us by I was actually count all the cheeseheads as I can separate cheese variety you know hundreds of thousands of varieties of cheese in Wisconsin I'm saying

play cheeseheads everyone loves you know I used to have a cheesehead hat I don't know what the hell happened to remember the way you said that she said had at at FCI was originally Jeremy's who is from Wisconsin ship Jeremy who didn't like kind of donated I think someone stole the cheese head hat you can't keep one around a cheesehead hats are you going to do like where the phone number had for a long time we shouldn't spend too much time on it but I did learn recently that cheesehead is a racial slur tour the Dutch in Wisconsin so maybe that's somewhere I mean I'm sure it's somewhere it's just you know there's like a database of racial slurs and it was listed mean

Kasich cooker I'm up at altitude and I can't I really can't use an electric pressure cooker so is there some is there some way that I can get a shut up without getting to DIY that I can I can sort of kind of a setup that I can walk away from that I can you know that for my my my pressure that I need and then walk away from it but it ended pressure that I need at my altitude right so first thing you have to do even like an electric pressure cooker to get to the temperature that week

I'm down here on our on our Pino low-altitude setting right the first thing you need to do is you need to calculate the the pressure difference between where you are and sea level right me too but you need to figure out how many how much excess PSI you need to get to the same temperature you need to do at 18 PSI relative PSI to be getting to my to my atmospheric levels down here where I am now there's a couple of ways you can do this all of them are obviously not recommended by the manufacturer is right so on the electric pressure cookers like the Cuisinart you can tell they're not actually sensing pressure they're sensing temperature so you can mess with it right now I posted an article on that once I don't necessarily recommend you go and do that because

risk of danger eccentric cetera et to alter the Fagor style pressure cookers that have little twist knob on them I don't know I don't have a good way to modify those but if you use old style Jiggler weight pressure cooker so it would Tommy used to make them American pressure canner still makes them right American pressure canners interesting like the problem with it is it's aluminum and so if you're going to do a lot of acidic work some people don't don't like it when people don't like looking aluminum also like a lot of her very big but the American pressure cooker canner corp Corporation people that have a gauge that I really trust right now there a Jiggler style which means it's going to be venting which is not ideal right because you know if you read my stuff on pressure cooking I don't really like pressure cookers that vent if you're going to do things like stock that's it that's said what you can do on any sort of jigglers

how is just on that what they're fundamentally doing is they have an orifice of known size and then they put away a certain weight on it and by doing that they know at what pressure does steam is going to force the weight off the top and then have it sprayed down right so what you can do is increase the weight so if you're going to have like an American pressure canner situation you can just add weights to their Jiggler weight and American pressure canner is nice because the Jiggler weight has like three different holes that you can use and they have three different ways settings depending on kind of you know how hard it needs to push that to go up to take the highest one and then you add enough weight has to be down low so it's not off center or anyting and then you look at the gauge when it starts venting and you can set it to pimp you only need three PSI overpressure right you can do that because none of the safeties on a pressure cooker I'm going to start engaging until well over three PSI over there limits all right

now you talked about the pressure sterilizer before and I was looking at that it is it have you ever tried to control with a with an induction burner yes but not I didn't try very hard right so yeah you can you can put a pressure cooker in a in a in a in a temperature-controlled oil bath on an induction burner and you can do it right so the question is if you are if your induction burner is good it's pretty good right then you know that's a can with what you know if you maintain your plus or minus 45° then you could just use the sterilizer or even you know that got it like a heavily modded regular one with the Jiggler and just

yeah and have it just go to that temperature and you can verify that it's reaching that the temperature you need by looking at the gate and I have had I would say moderate success I was using it cuz I wanted very even heat transfer when I was giving customers on trying to pressure cook dirty and custard and I was never able to succeed and we make the one batch that made by accident one day of still life long this appointment for me but yeah you can do it but I think you know you're going to be easier like on a repeated basis just being able to try and do it on a stovetop by modifying that Dead Trigger weight Matthew if you're moving to something like a coon Recon right and cooling Recon the the pressure is determined by the spring there's a there's a spring that there's a spring that force it that you push down right sorry there's a spring that pushes the the valve down and as it as the pressure increases

he pushes from the inside against the spring up up and you see first ring and then you see second ring and then after the second ring you still have more pressure and then after another amount of time then we can start the vent about to that valve write my guess is that that venting doesn't happen until around 3 PSI overpressure over the 15 so I'm guessing you could probably get 18 out of a clear Recon before it starts venting although I'm not sure now here's where things get hinky right you could you could put a stiffer spring into that Kuhn rikon thing or and I'm not saying I recommend this you could perhaps stretch that spring to give it a little bit of a permanent set so it's a little bit bigger so that you have to put more compression on it to get it to the right pressure levels but unless you have some adequate way of measuring let's say using an oil bath for measuring purposes before hand right then if you had an oil bathroom

beforehand you could set it to a temperature that you knew was 18 PSI which I forget the numbers going to be somewhere around two hundred and fifty something Fahrenheit right you could see where it hits you could stretch the spring on a little bit reassemble it and then put it at 2:50 and see where it hits on the valve and figure out roughly how much you've adjusted the pressure that way that makes sense I mean I don't know I can't recommend any this crap but if you have a good induction burner I would set it to about remember you have to remember offhand what the temperature is for atmospheric for sorry for a 15 psi at the at the sea level is like 2:50 something right circular actually set it to just don't do it plastic right set it to two don't mean if you have an old metal circular I should say set it to 250 Fahrenheit and you know put that thing in the world

way to Wild seed

you know in in that bathroom you have an induction burner that can do a pretty accurate 250 set it with no with no it's not a lot of water because you don't want to take a long time to heat up and I'll let you know or so of water wait for it to heat up and see where the where the pressure thing hits and if it hasn't made it to vent level yet if it's just like you know if it's over the second ring but not quite venting yet then you can kind of figure out where you are and then obviously let it cool down and do your modifications the good news is if you hold it you can buy that spring is not that expensive like that spring you can buy from can Recon I've had to buy parts from them I forget whether you have to email them directly or not let me know an interesting thing you know what maybe we should ask someone like some Recon to make a special spring for people who cook an altitude you know what I'm saying cuz for them it would cost nothing

you're not that would be that would be nice but I'm pretty sure you'd be able to tweak it but if you could call back with with the results and appreciate it cuz I like to know whether things like this work

yeah I'd like my cooler econ to work at you know I'd I'd be willing to get to All American sterilizer if I need to but honestly I'm only use the really really giant one I use it because it's really giant but it's not nearly as you know it's it's a lot more of a pain in the butt because it doesn't have any gasket or gasket list which is good for some things but not necessarily good for ease of just using a pressure cooker all the time because he just got these little screw dads that you screw down it looks like you're like a submarine bulkhead or something like this with you like screw dads that you have to screw all the way around yet to make sure that they're sealing cuz if you don't you know do it like you do a tire lug nut if you don't like go across in the star pattern you can like pork that that little bit and you know they are aluminum good at what they're good at and the gauges are really good but I don't cook with mine are you I use it for experiments so if you can get your Kumon Recon to do what you wanted to do I would get your food we kind of do it when you want you might want to

why is spring first and then do it with that spring so that you're not like high and dry in case you do something horrible you want to mean

yeah, spent and also I don't look like you know I often disassemble my Kumon Recon for cleaning so it's pretty easy to get today my memory is it pretty easy to get to the spring you just unscrew that I'm screwed from the bot hold on to the thing on scooter from the bottom you should be able to pop the entire assembly off of cleaning

and there's just no way of taking a direct temperature measurements in the tumors on

okay you know the other or temporarily disabling one of one of the safeties so like there's a there's a rubber safety plug in a side of a coon Recon it's a little blue silicone rubber plug you need to replace every once in a while anyway mine blew out that's what I knocked knocked in at the lab at like a year ago and like spray chicken grease all the soonest as I remember it well right so if you get an extra one of those plugs you can go under a drill at plug but under like only a little bit and then shove a thermocouple through that plug down into your product and do a direct measure of temperature but then you're going to want to throw that plug away and put a plug in when you're done I mean I wouldn't run it all the time that way but it's a temporary way to get it exactly where you want it and again those plugs aren't that expensive so if you get a rebuild kit from Coon Recon they'll send you the if you tell them what you need I'll send you that plug in again I would I would drill out your old one because it's always nice to have a fresh plug the other probably send me a new gasket the same time I forget exactly what I got but I got a complete rebuild including the the stem

assembly with a spring I got the the plug and everything or you can just get a new plug and measure the temperature right before it starts an event so that you could you know do it without any spring modification it all you might be able to get the temperature you need with no modification you know I'm saying about that plug that little that little blue plug underneath the if you pull up the country concert come with a plate that fits over the top Littles like little rattling play if it's meant to deflect Steam down shirt all crap I lost mine years ago so I don't have one of those plates but then on that little thing in the inside of the blue with a blue silicone plug that is removable from its removable by popping it out

okay alright let me know yeah I know exactly what you're talking about. Let me know how it goes Alexander we talked about this

nothing, cheeseheads offended by this to call in because I don't think that's a person exists I call her and he's in studio with a book where Patrick Martin's in the studio hey nothing Hawking the carnivores Manifesto the new book by Patrick Martens with with Mike Edison who by the way was the editor-in-chief I believe a High Times restaurant man with him which is the New York Times bestseller is about the underbelly of the restaurant where I lived and what it's like to open restaurants and you have no hate women

he's worked with all of them who's the guy from Hustler I forgot to Larry clown Larry Flynt right when there's many things you can think about Larry Flynt you said that Larry Flynt legitimately where they like women I mean I don't I mean I'm not going to try to portray Hustler as you know a paradigm of Larry Flynt enjoys the company of women that's what I mean to say not like them and sort of you know reasonable way of life of culture and that's why I thought he was great guy to partner with for the book because I was not looking to do a traditional oh this is sustainability in these are labels that you need to be looking for at the supermarket their basic truths out there you know just trying to make our love between you always said that he is not a strictly opinion thing there are faxing astronomy some things you know that's why I 95%

call cheese people think Parmigiano-Reggiano is the number one cheese in the world because there's certain agreement about what's not the best cheese to use to like to like you know put on a piece of bread when you're eating it I mean like if you were going to I mean what's the best cheese to have with a glass of Port it's still getting everyone agrees that the best he's having a glass of Port still bad but they got you know I don't like top 10 list top 10 restaurants in New York City top 10 rare exception that someone gets bumped honor comes on or bumped off and that's why I do know what you mean about picking the best but I like to know what's the best terroir for wine in America we should start ranking those things cuz

you ever going to see ourselves like France does them and Italy does them we have to look at ourselves as a gastronomic mosaic around the USA and recognized expertise where it exists that makes the best peaches as does Western Michigan as does Ojai but New Jersey that's not the best peach and by the way for all the talk about the best tomatoes coming from New York if you're telling me that you had a better tomato than either the and Ruby's German green or the German or the German Stripes from from Stokes the best local place that has certain character

Mystics and let's pretty lips like a numerate and preserve these quality characteristics right so what the best Prosciutto de Parma is in stylistic terms and let protect that and like give it a label that makes sense right not saying it's the best ham in the world is just saying you know Rocky were there is a particular style it comes from here where the best at it you can't make it I mean I did say it's a giant leap for mankind and it really is cuz I was saying the fundraiser the other day you know if you would said it was sixteen hundred and two guys like you and me were sitting around me like

Western Museum battle music in the future there is not one Museum in the world in the world there is not one food Museum that's like a real big picture Food Museum said that was just one chapter in the first timer

can you buy from Harry's Radio Flyer Financial pressure anymore and so they are you know this sounds like one that could last a little longer than the last time she tell me you're mad as hell and I can't take anymore when you were writing the book we were talking and this is kind of the one that's going to generate the most heat for you personally is is a third chapter the best and so that's good thank you he's a really interesting thing because usually people in this is something I I hate all commentary of all subjects everywhere is

someone who thinks about you and thinks about the kind of Heritage Foods in general is going to they paint to paint you with the same brush to paint everyone who is involved in the kind of war was like the friend since to eat one of the founders slow food USA what you were right paying you all with the same brush that is your all locavores you all believe you all have a unified you don't have a unified view of what good food is and what's important and you know what we should be doing not the case I think the average person like this person here that's making some Pour Some of whether or not you or someone like you would be a like a confirmed locavore they would say yes but in fact no silly and the best lentils came from Paris France and the best world to get the best meal he could

has he always wanted to reward local terroir and local Gastronomy in fact he was probably the major reason the barbarous going barolos became so powerful in the mid-eighties early eighties they were terrible wines late 70s he was a big proponent so you should always try to reward and improve your local terroir but by saying that you know no offense New Jersey has the best tomatoes when perhaps another reason I let say peaches it's just not the case you're actually propping up a third-rate product you're hurting the farmer you're hurting your own gastrin gastronomic experience and I just think it's important to be the best and to recognize that each region of this country makes certain things I mean that would you eat I know pigs are wouldn't even hunt for local truffles in Oregon did not refuse to hunt for them cuz they're not very tasteless and I'm not going to get in the in the Throwdown on on Oregon

going to be like this is a fantastic truffle shave these and use them like you would troubles because it's local that's ridiculous they they have a long way to go and maybe they shouldn't even be focusing on trouble they should be focusing on things that define adapted for you know and I just think local is a distance it's not against gastronomic term local is just a distance problem to find stuff in the distance if you can afford to pay for it

you know I mean it's an interesting thing I mean I think you know money is a big thing I have a thing or one of my chapters is $140 turkey and ask you about that to claim that you know that the hundred and $40 turkey but let's save the $10 turkey the to $2 a pound turkey hit a genetically it's been manipulated survival of the fattest these big corporations they breed for genetic Misfits if it leads to more profit so they suffer on that level they are so sick from their bad genetics are forced to grow so fast so much faster than they can that they need antibiotics pumped into their feed just to survive that's an unhealthy turkey people shouldn't eat that and where is we're not perfect and we know it's always a slow turning of the wheel and it's not an overnight thing to tell a poor person that they should eat an unhealthy turkey

is classist and borders on racism even I mean it said it's a class of thing the poor person should be told the same thing that the rich person is told you will be unhealthy if you eat that turkey now everyone needs a BLT with bad bacon in it that comes from a fuel system we're not understand about reality but the rich person should be told the same as the poor you don't have a dual standard for what you tell him and if that wasn't the turkey is a sick turkey and is unhealthy for you goes for rich and poor we might have to eat less meat in this country that's an answer but we certainly should never make a different argument to someone because of how much money they have in their bank account an unhealthy animal has a long and tough on more personal level amazing right now

I think it's it's obvious that you know the average person to know where everyone in the family if there's more than one adult in the family has to work you know more than they would have been over 30 years ago 4 years ago for less money and they want to put food on their table there's a huge disincentive to spend to culturally I'm just like you know if you want to be if you want to be you know a member of America have your kids not think that they're living in privation right then you know that the image of American cultures that we have you know the meat on the table you get the chicken when you want it you can have that the beef when you needed me this is like this is still like the cultural you know I do no idea what it means to be a semi prosperous American so it's very difficult to tell someone that they shouldn't go buy a product that makes them and their family feel like they're doing well or doing okay you know what I mean well I think it's more important

you are inside the health of your body I mean Temple Grandin just came out with the statement that said that 80% of all between 20 and 80% of all chickens arrive to the slaughterhouse already injured because of how unhealthy their bodies are those very same companies dump a lot of the Industrial Waste from those farms in Two Rivers so if a poor person needs that chicken they are complicit in the crime a crime that I commit to all the time but they need to know and everyone needs to kill that elitist argument because we should all strive for the good chicken and to tell everybody anybody that they should know I understand you should also strive for meat on your table to be part of the American thing but we also can't unwittingly Shield the robber barons from criticism the Goldman Sachs is of the world in the produce nobody argues that there's a whole bunch of externalities that don't show up on the price tag at Walmart you know what I mean to producing a chicken let's say there's a

you know the issue is that I think it's very hard to it's very hard to get people to change if the price that the price tag Remains the way it is and the externalities to producing the crappy chicken or happy turkey don't like make their way down to the price tag I think it's a hard problem to solve our problem I mean I personally think pasta D2 page essays so you know they're very short essays and now The Meatball Shop they do it.. Dinner at The Meatball Shop competes with the dinner at McDonald's if you order one of their value menus you know like 6 65595 meatball shop also what about pasta with Ragu on it and you have blood on your hands chapter that this might be the greatest Manifesto for vegetarianism ever written because of how critical we are of fast-food you know Temple Grandin word from McDonald's I know

and in fact I think the not to be fair to Temple McDonald's has co-opted temples good work at the slaughterhouse and by the way all those animals are killed very well at McDonald's but they co-opted her good image to a give the impression that everything they do is good when in reality that her real effect is on those last few minutes of the animals and that you are important but the rest of the time they're do far as staying there DeForest sting at the Amazon they do all these terrible things those animals are push to grow faster than they can and then they shouldn't naturally that's why they're cardiovascular skeletal respiratory systems cannot grow that fast I've heard stats that a chicken at Slaughter weight is the equivalent of a 349 pound human when we start doing that to our livestock and that's a lot of the percentage of the meat we eat in this country 90% 95% something like that that's a

Stockton survival of the fattest not the fittest is a real issue that I think this book brings up and I in fact learned it from Frank Reese are poultry guy who was doing this from an ethical perspective in his chosen to fight that fight by growing chickens that are not compromise genetically for-profit there's a difference between genetic engineering and you know what farmers do certain things too but they're looking for a balanced animal when they could survive in nature and reproduce so this argues for that market it also does not try to deny the fact that we eat 11 billion livestock weed 11 billion Livestock in this country so we should start thinking about how those animals are raised so ask you one more quickly before we get that the meat that you know you sell at the Heritage cost more than than you know crap crap me not only is it

scale on which it's done do you believe that 15-20 years from now it will be cheaper because you'll be able to have bet like better distribution routes things like the things that make that kind of thing more economical efficiencies the cost down from Carla petrini he says no to raise 50 pigs they grow slower that's one so that means they live longer that's too sweet up to feed them more and just so you know a turkey is normally a very discriminating discriminating meter so what do they do on the corporate Farms they cut off its beak so it can't pick so all I can do is use it's because a shovel and they keep the lights on on the indoors and never sees the outdoors they're all artificially inseminated Sonos exes ever happening on this farm so they have turn their face

in an elective surgery into disconfigured shovel so that it can shovel their antibiotic written this is an animal so sick that they need medicine in their food just to survive their life and they wrapped up inside her house injured it will never be that cheap that is too cheap that is playing God that is pushing it like the Nazis did you like thing and I hate to say that were but it's true and stuff like that and they never say no antibiotics because they can't those animals would die in their little Barnes they're cheaper I'm not saying cheap as you don't even think it will be cheaper efficiencies would happen and I hope I get the best lamb in this country and order it in pieces you pretty much have to commit to a half lamb cut into pieces but you commit to the lamp so you know what I mean

still an uphill battle although I said that I don't think it'll ever be as cheap I do think it will be a little bit cheaper and you can save money by Isaac cooking pastas buying whole animals and by the way I think of McDonald's $7 meal of pasta is a half that price so I know that one's going out of one's eating but still it's not how much we know do you buy a good oil do you buy the Parmigiano-Reggiano price uppity up 4:30 up a sense of all around so that we don't do this and that that would be a problem and I would be wrong but I think when it comes to meet this country just has to eat a little bit less meat but the part that way to do that is to embrace the fact that we eat a lot of me not to try to a first question at any sustainable meat conference should we eat meat we do 11 billion livestock come on let's get with the program I'm one example

but since Heritage Food started in 2004 I see dozens of butcher shops in other Distribution Systems the answer is starting to push at the gates and I'm going to I sense that things will be cheaper. But never never that cheap cheap urban ever Chief will never be cutting off the beaks of turkeys so that they get fat in the third the time as they are intended in nature that's what I'm having sex cells and other than people forget sex animals that have sex turkeys are only available for eating in November ducks and geese how come everyone in Charles Dickens book was always eating a duck and a goose and Christmas cuz that's when cycles of the Earth Earth orbiting around the Sun that's when Nature gives us those animals but we artificially inseminate everybody in that a i artificial insemination is how they're able to control and grow these kind of freaks is because they find a chicken so disfigured they pull his genetic form from the flock not to remove them from the flock but to artificially inseminate the Next Generation with his genetics

make a genius genius one of the things that you mention we quickly is a h a like this is a car going to take me to quickly color you're on the air thanks to some smokes product and well-liked I'm pretty pleased with it but I don't really have an environment where I can use that and also keep the heat below that you and her and 15

sort of the nail place where all the shooting happen like it's a little tube amazing products and you just put it under the grill grates and and just let it go red does a pretty good job at ambient temperatures for going above 200 degrees and getting outside of smoked pork belly or shoulder

what do you smoke it before you put it in the bag or afterwards and then if you were going to do it before you know how long is it how long is your smoker like 4 to 6 hours maybe I don't know I like a lot of smoke on it yeah I mean you could put the meat on like you know like for over a bed of ice almost to keep it like even below ambient like a put like a rack over sheet tray with ice and then let the smoke go around it and then your device isn't directly touching the food but you can actually keep the temperature is down like to where it's been a fairly safe that's one way to do it or you know but the thing is that if you're going to smoke cold I would definitely do a nitrate or nitrite based cure

so you would inhibit any possibility of botulism happening during a cold smoking procedure for any length of time you want to ensure that you're not going to have bottles in Prague now if you're going to do sous-vide afterwards even if you had caused him you know somebody to listen growth on it you're going to you going to know if you cook it properly sous-vide you're going to destroy the toxins and destroy the vegetative cells you obviously won't destroy the sports because you can't do that with sous vide but that's that's one way around it but if you actually want the full sous-vide texture of it then I would do I would do it before and cold now if you if you want to see who viewed all the way through and you can do a hot smoking fairly quickly right then you can go over cook the outer section 2 the meat but you can get a good smoke on and I'm very in a shorter amount of time if you do if you start if you do a like a sous vide cool it all the way down you can have it almost at Hino fridge or below temps pull it out let it be a letter

dry off in the fridge so it gets a little bit of a pelican in the fridge instead of a smoker right and then throw it in your smoke or cold and then you can throw a Hot Smoke on it pretty quickly without overcooking through and then do the rest of the retherm in you know in a lower temp environment do it that way so it's all a question of how long you need to smoke it and how cold you can you can keep it but if you can do any appreciable cold smoking I would definitely nitrite nitrate or nitrite at first night ride it right now

number one

you think that be enough to you know that's how it's not mix using the pink stuff right I forget what I forget what the ratios are but like any one of the charcuterie books has like Brian levels and I would just use the same amount of insecure that you would use in like a bacon beef brine recipe unfortunately like I do it so rarely that I don't have the numbers in my head but like I would just consult any you know fundamental charcuterie manual don't obviously consult the ones that are advocating nitrate and nitrite free stuff because they're probably not then going to do something like a cold smoke on it but anyone that has you know a brine recipe with insecure should give you like a decent ratio and I would just stick with that and I wouldn't specially you know if you're doing it you know if you're doing yourself I wouldn't worry about going like a little bit over it's not going to not going to kill you

how much is botulism well

I think I let us know if you know this or call us and let us know how it worked out for you to go now but I will say what I didn't answer then I will answer I Rob Trey pass call about fiddlehead ferns and Ostrich Ferns actually very interesting like a potential poison problems with Ostrich Ferns that are undercooked I've done some research on it and I'll get you next time Nigel ocean Nigel Olsson called and he's going to do some gluten free gluten free like shoe pastry and guess who we have on next week's does who is the founder and the chief of everything officer of cup4cup gluten free flour that is a the Thomas Keller is also selling that their company is called cup4cup and she will be on the show next week no one will ever call her clock I will wait to answer your question until then and Ken and Gramercy talk about chewy crust in his pizza I have a lot of stuff to say about that but I can also try to get

maybe I'll try to get in on that what you think cuz he's a master of the chewy crust that I didn't get to that I will get you next week and what is the word meaning a soul wrenching need to fear something but frustration at the end of bility to do so perhaps something German Tweed in your results cooking issues thanks for listening to this program on Heritage Radio Network. Org you can find all of our archives programs on our website or a podcast in the iTunes Store by searching Heritage Radio Network you can like us on Facebook and follow us on Twitter at Heritage underscore radio you can email us questions at any time info at Heritage Radio Network. Org Heritage Radio network is a nonprofit organization to donate and become a member visit our website today thanks for listening