Cooking Issues Transcript

Episode 154: Flatware, Tableware, & More

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Frozen it is snowing like a demon out but I'm still coming to you live a little late because the subway was shocked me I usually I'm late today I'm actually going to blame the weather I noticed that Jack made it here on time as paid nastasha so maybe and they're both coming from Manhattan

yes Beth tell it whatever you want to 72128 we don't have a hot drink I told her we were going to work on one feel food yes it was funny is that our friend who's in the one of the partners are gaylene Quinn and runs up the Bogota Food and Wine Festival or Wine and Food Fest but never get this straight she the food like Phil like our friend Phil Bravo and she can't like literally cannot hear the difference between the words fill and feel so we were busted we were busting our trash yesterday on the Hill Field phenomenon

Phil Phil nomenon but so I can't believe we're going to do an event with cocktails with people like arriving as it's like dumping buckets of snow on us but that's why it's housecat we agreed to do it so we did what we do it so we got some questions in

on knives I have a simple I have a simple math question I was not so simple as it turns out most things are not so simple right on our way am I recently bought a 10 inch knife blank the listing claimed it was a 100 year-old Sabbat a blank of Cyberchase like the French like the French knives Summit a pattern is different from the kind of standard German chef knives that we all kind of grew up with liking him in the US if you know if you're my age when you were younger no one really had the Japanese or the Japanese Western stuff they weren't very popular I don't think until probably the 90s you know like you know somewhere in the late 90s wear around their it was the u.s. people so you know in the early nineties in the late eighties and early nineties everyone wanted their their hang clothes and there was toss and if you were going to get

you know a Japanese chef knife to do western style work most likely you'd get like a Mac you know what I mean the max that you would get like we're semi have the newer style Japanese Western pattern button into Japanese takes on Western Knives is the ones I was kind of grew up being two of us are most people I knew didn't really have a set of French pattern eyes in French pattern that the knife actual that the handle style and the and the shape of the knife but different from the Germans actually quite like it so I am I in fact my favorite knife that I have that the Western knife is cuz I have my favorite Japanese knives but my favorite Western knife is in fact a 10 inch sub knife carbon steel that I found a flea market

42 box has rust on the blade or loss of metal in the actual Edge there's some pitting edema except for people keep picking it up using it without my permission and then leaving it wet which really makes me want people do not first of all don't use other people's nuts right like don't like the less you ask don't use somebody else's nice straight up like a member at the SEI I had a set of Japanese knives also carbon steel so they arrested and some which is very flat blade it's it's meant for like turning daikon sheets and you know I bought a time when the UN was not quite as good as it is against the dollar now so it wasn't ridiculously expensive

but still I think it set me back like a hundred and something boxing and now it's like $150 or $185 knife to my dad and some some jackwad picked it up. It was I guess I don't know what the hell they thought it was a clever and they hit it in the bones and took giant scallop marks out of it and made it entirely useless and then left it wet so I came back to my knife kit your kind of put it away but they put it away and left it ruined completely ruined I've never been so angry about something that happened in the kitchen to my equipment ever as why would anyone ever pick up some but so this is the problem about having nice stuff in a communal environment and me and my home now cuz we have people come through it amounts in some ways to commit environment sometimes carbon knife in good shape which is why you should be protected by the advantages of the carbon steel knives

are there at ridiculously easy to sharpen they take your date they don't they're paying in terms of you know taking care of them like whenever I use mine I wipe it down after you so I put it in code of oil on it you know at the end of the night I wipe it after each use and then I put it in code of oil and put away and it's been fine for years but it just a little more used to take Saint Edge extremely well navigate to last longer than me the new the new steel TIG the new steel said they have a crazy you know and so yeah I'm sure from an actual performance standpoint but the fact that take Med so easy please leave means that you know you can a couple of swipes on my on my on my stone and soccer is you know like a like a like a slicing machine if my favorite thing is like states with steaks

so I bought a knife blank in the listing claimed it was 100 year old stabbed at a blank recently discovered in a warehouse warehouse in how do you think I should know it's French right but ta ta English get gas it's like TA or something like that I don't know but you never know what that I'm right. They could be like you douche your supposed to pronounce a r s on that one you're like course they don't understand that's my favorite thing about French people is that they don't understand the douche and so they're like shallow shallow stack of us anyway I have problems I've got the pronunciation here I was pretty close with this story I couldn't pass it up but I've been having trouble finding someone willing to transform the blank into a functioning knife

I was rebuffed like that could work I was rebuffed by one custom Brooklyn knife maker and he could not point me to any other knife makers who will be willing to do the job and he suggested this require heat rather than just sharpening as well I really have a good 8-inch chef's knife at home and I keep sharp with a DMT system those of the Diamond Knot in specially urgent task however just holding the blank makes my current and I feel like safety scissors against Xcalibur so who and where do I go to turn this blank into a real knife rubber we hear New York but maybe this task is not as simple as I had originally thought and then some Patrick and description from from the eBay and by the way for those of you interested in this problem the the person who bought it from if you look sahabat a blank there are some eBay auctions currently from the same guy still up you can still go buy one of these

interest you yeah it's not as simple as you thought if you guys look it up and you go on eBay and see what your what we have here if you have a a blank just after the forge right so it's at to hold a blank with the metal in tire but if it looks like it's only gone through the first step so what happens after you have to do something called in. The annealing is to make it soft to work and get rid of some of the stress is so you can do with Neal it and it mean when you're going to take it up to a fairly high temperature like somewhere like fourteen hundred and fifty or so Fahrenheit and you going to hold it there for a while you get Kool-Aid very very very slowly and what that's going to do is it's going to bring the metal into a very soft state that easily worked and I think it also gets rid of some of the stress and that is so that you can do the kind of grinding and to get it down to almost finished except for the actual edge of self you want to get it down cuz you look at the picture that you have of the blank

as I got a lot of 14 marks in it that you can still see in the picture

after you do that right now you have to pardon the guy so you have to and you going to do whatever work you going to do on it then you might do something called normalization which is another thing similar to a kneeling but not quite as not quite a slow according to read me cool it slowly is it when you heat this deal up to a high temperature change the state of the metal that goes from being a mix of whatever happens to be in whatever state it is partially probably Harden from working partially not into coming Austin titik State which is very slowly it forms into you know very soft structured you cool a very quickly you know a portion of it hopefully large portion of it to martensite which is a lot harder to steal not as slowly as a kneeling but relatively slowly to kind of

get rid of any kind of imperfections in it that might cause problems with the with the with the Harding with your about to do now I don't know whether that's that's fully necessary or not but a lot of people who recommended you're going to heat it up again to that same high temperature and then quench it like a mother in oil very quickly so that the metal does not have the time to to go into its author states that Frozen in the heart of martensitic state right much easier to accomplish because the other temperatures I like 1450 that's kind of thing you need a real life outside of a forager account to do that right the other one is a little bit lower is a temporary thing that can be done kind of more reasonable steps you do that to kind of make it not as brittle maybe once maybe twice and he listened to

and there you have your blade after you temperate then you have to put scales on it right wooden Parts McNally compound it down sand down the sand down the handle so it's nice and then put your final polish and your Edge on it so in other words to put it in a dino to put it this way it's a lot of freaking work and to have someone do a one-off custom job on something like this is going to cost a lot of money much more than just going and buying a high-quality old sub today if I was going to make sure that you that you dealt with was like why would I do that I'm a custom knifemaker I want to make my own eyes I don't want to do that to this other nice now they're probably being a little bit of a jerk about it because everyone everyone who doesn't like that for a living

I can cleaning myself like when someone's like wants so it comes to me and wants me to make somebody else's cocktail why would I do that that's ridiculous you know what I mean by so everyone who does the stuff for a living like they're kind of jerks butt and they're kind of not understanding before someone is not directly on the inside of their business but that's just the Nature has only care about what they do need to probably get to be hard to find somebody cares about what they do who is willing to do it for a reasonable price and doesn't care about the whole process in general I think you've bitten off quite a bit but I think it's really interesting project if you go on kitchen knife forums there's a guy there named Evan Thomas who's a very famous maker of never touch one of his knives but there are you know a chef's knife from Devin Thomas is upwards of like fifteen hundred bucks if you can get it because they're made one off their custom he's a maker of crazy crazy pattern Damascus style steal that He makes himself both stainless and carbon Damascus steel and he wrote in that he bought one like 20 years ago from the same guy and made a knife with it and this is what he says to do should you find someone's butt

he says Anil at 1454 1 hour drop the temperature to 1275 for 4 hours and it cool in the furnace to harden it soak at roughly 1,500 degrees Fahrenheit for 10 minutes and then quench in oil and then temper mediately for 1 hour between 350 and 400 degrees Fahrenheit one or two times one time from or toughness 1/2 x 4 more toughness in 1 hour from where where is its value longer keeping Edge but that is not saying that the average person I think could do although I have to say I love the oldest Sabatino's I love them anyway that makes sense to take a look at his nice by the way I look if you can't find this crazy like a chef Matt from soundbar

all right to take a break

today's program has been brought to you by Heritage Foods USA the nation's largest distributor of Heritage breed pigs and turkeys for more information visit Heritage Foods USA. Com

oh yeah you breed a distributor of the largest breeds of pigs and turkeys anyone has had one knows this but they're not like the the jacked up like you know super like Jim going Birds mean like how much they weigh how much do they weigh at Thanksgiving time remember 1819 is as big as you're getting with those guys

which breed turkey if they wanted to know how you could find out right me like we Slaughter are animals so young typically here in the US which is one of the reasons if you go back and it's good from an informational standpoint I'm sure it's hardly out of date and he don't told you I was written other books since this one which is written there thinking that in the late 90s my own it's like it is pouring rubbing like stars you would find it intensely boring but it has information in it that I'm glad I have in my head now one of those pieces of information is that the muscular enzyme makeup of an animal is dependent on its age

I'm at for dry cured long age dry cured meat products the enzyme balance makeup rather in older hog is more conducive to creating a higher-quality long each product the meat from a older Hogs or older animals in general taste incredibly different now taste very old meets I said there's a bunch of restaurants in Spanish specialize in cooking older animals like seven year old sings like this I think you're very aged mutton things like this

Joe McGee is it like stars McGee is like just explaining that kind of how awesome it is in like maybe I can how can I get it in my face and he got to have this awesome stuff and I can't have that they had maybe maybe they did maybe they didn't have it at I think it was secret and also maybe wanted Danielle back in like the 90s fashion say doesn't care he Revels in the fact that I want it and can't have it I think we do not to say he's mean he just likes a good he likes a good nose rub Sophie. Children the age of the animal also not only for the enzyme standpoint but the actual flavor of the muscle is going to be different I don't have any personal experience on that but all the day

shows that Lisa data from the late 90s shows that that's neither here nor there hi Dave is from Sam hi Dave can you talk a little bit about your philosophy of dishes and flatware I don't think you've ever talked in depth about the subject on Sam most chefs who cook food for a living they care extremely deeply about they're both the plate I think mostly right and then probably after that about the about that the flatware and I think that there's kind of

at home it's a lot it's a lot different if you're going to go a professional right especially in like a super high-end restaurant on restaurant you just need something is going to show off the show off the food well right she goes like simple Diane restaurants like you know what it has how many different kinds of things at the service that the place that you have need to be of equality that you're like you're not like man is sticking crappy I could have this in my own house is not a big deal I mean like it needs to have a certain level of quality but it needs to be tough enough to not get those plates cost like those ones we sat at our event we shattered at the most Ativan a couple years ago we shattered probably how many

15 or 20 in there probably like $75 place for my dad is going to have something for a long time you have it but then you're bringing a new plate and you have to think about how many different dishes am I going to get out of this plate right so like I've been to restaurants and I won't name any names but they're like I really like this weird Kate Wright and then because they invested in this weird plate I get this plate three or four times during the meal on a large course. Me on a tasty plate tasting menu in your life enough with the crazy play enough it's shaped like a waiver like some sort of crazy over and then they busted out like three and four times because they kind of need to be the flip side of this is if you have a tasting go on a tasting some people do the almost entirely one plate right and then a place blank canvas and then you have to choose

play that you like that fits your style typically whites and beautiful right and then you're going to need another one that is slightly dished like maybe you get a charger to slightly dish that way if you start something it's not a full-on soup but is broccolini don't want you need some soup usually I would go for a wide soup because you go wide suit you could do a lot more than you can do said it's more elegant

and then if you want to Salt and Pepper it that's when you pull out the like the cheap day that's where you go to Chinatown to go and You by like you know the less expensive stuff in the pretty colors like the ceramics that don't cost an arm and a leg you can kind of by on a lark and switch out for a plating thing here there or switch up if you have something weird in the socket cops and other things that are that are less expensive so if you had to and even at home I would say in this is what I've done is you invest in you invest in a good very kind of neutral but you know beautiful like basic set that allows you to do Chargers that allows you to do normal play stuff smaller stuff like bread and butter is going to be Play It's and you know maybe like you no more wide flat soup and a regular soup bowl and then just buy a bunch of weird weird stuff that you do for one-offs like for events and parties and stuff

let me know the exact opposite extreme of this is Grande kids at alinea if you've ever eaten in there a couple times and it's like yeah I think that's very difficult for the average person to a pay for and be to support in their in their kind of restaurant and he has dishes his dishes that are built for dishes that makes sense contain dishes go for dishes for specific dishes pieces of ceramic things to eat dishes off I love flatware but I don't I know I don't think about having like lots of tons of different kinds of flatware if there was a time when I eat

start a long time and I went to Danielle and I had to like the whole the full on old-school Danielle French like nothing new like nothing that have been kind of invented as a technique you know after Ass Coffee act like they just busted out all it was, you can sell with the page of the times they're really old school French stuff and I like this is awesome and I mean this is like super awesome and then they that they bring out the fish Fork you like the fish forth with the little notch in it it's over that kind of stuff I like that in normally unlike you know I just want some normal good quality flatware I don't like a lot of weird handles I hate the weird hand I hate to be like a sensual extension of my and I don't want any sort of weirdness there but us

I like your fancy flatware yeah I hate Handle by French singer still like you no high-quality like you don't want you ever been to have one of those things are so what makes I can handle it's like it's like a wire almost and it's like this weird created handle and you like me to holding it it doesn't feel substantial design flatware for a while and then was looking at him the guy was like a yet those are nice but they never going to sell and Jen was like why not he's like it does not heavy enough doesn't even know he's like literally like it doesn't matter what it looks like put the sucker on a scale and if the knife and fork don't weigh x amount they will not sell likes oh wait was right but if you hold something thin or light in your hair

this is not a satisfying and ever since then I was like yeah and I feel for 1/2 in my hand but I like a good chest in my flatware drinkware at the bar if you've ever been really stock lots of like Looney Looney Tooney glassware I'm kind of a believer in getting a relatively small number of glasses and and far is a little bit different so you could invest in a boatload of different weird things but in general all of the drinks are designed around certain volume anyway unless you bring a whole new category in Frank's Red Hot poker drink while we're doing okay now we need a coffee cup

mocha drinks or are you know most shaken drinks fit in either a coupe glass or the two-thirds Coupe glass and so that's all we have and it hasn't really served a purpose for us to have a zillion fact we don't even have high ball glasses cuz we don't do that kind of drink I kept the bartender so I'll buy the highball glasses if they can make a drink that says that forces me to buy them what do you think of like the cocktail in mason jar thing what do I think of the cocktail in a mason jar thing I'm going to piss some people off mason jars are not particularly Pleasant to drink out of because the lip of them is really really sick and the only reason to have a thick Rim glasses like a coffee mug or something like that that you kind of want your lips to be around if you want the mass of the of the of the glass to provide some sort of either Cooling and or warming property to it in general I favor glasses with thin rims so you know coups have

10 rims old-fashioned glasses have been rims and affect the theater The Rim the more I enjoy drinking out of it as long as the glass itself has enough weight so I like an old fashioned I think it's nice to have you know preposterously thick bottom but a fairly thick bottom in a fairly thin lip so mason jars have screw Lids on the top and so always be feet and they also that thing 10 to a kind of obscure kind of the cocktail on the inside now for a theme of that I think they're fine or like you know for like if you can have a lot of ice in it and it's in a drink I think it's kind of okay as long as you pre chill it but I never I never reach for them

that makes sense what he thinks does what do you think Jack thing to drink out of a glass versus a mason jar for a beer when you put a pint glass. You're not like I'm afraid I'm going to break this sucker you what I'm saying but you're also not like why am I why am I drinking out of out of an iPad you know what I mean like mason jars like so thick it's like the thickness of a freaking iPad

like the worst of all any one of you out here out there if you use it I'm sure you can do something to pull it off like stuff that normally I would hate how many times have you heard me say man I thought I was going to hate that crap it was good but have you seen these people who like put mason jars on stems oh man yeah I've seen that why the hell would you do that why would you do that that you were somehow I don't know going to package and sell the some money then maybe it'll be fun to have a jelly jar or like a or a mason jar because you could actually like it would look like a can think you could buy you can buy in a store that might be fun you know me

I don't know whatever you give me a trouble Jack Jesus oh Jesus your recipe for pressure cook eggs which I found on the cooking issues blog but I've had some trouble actually making it when I squeeze the egg whites out in into the Ramekin some of the yolks float up to the top instead of neatly divided muffin as you seem to get any ideas what I might be doing wrong should I be putting in some water at the bottom of the pressure cooker or not Thanksgiving good workouts okay

when I press there's a couple different pressure cooking tricks I do with eggs the the ones where they turn brown where it's like a humming egg the Wichita by the way anyone who's listening to this day they owned on Twitter cooking right right it's not if you don't I'm not calling you out you shouldn't like feel embarrassed you should just go on to your local bookstore or if you don't go to your local bookstore go to Amazon and purchase Harold McGee's book on food and cooking right and in that book he describes something called a humming Egg and I mean egg is an egg so like let's say let's say that you observe kosher laws you're not allowed to cook so you have a large oven in the inner in a village environment let's say and the oven has retained heat so you put all your stuff in there

the night before at including eggs into the stew and it cooks for you know for a long long. Of time at a relatively you know decent temperature to end as it cools off because it now those eggs so they turn brown not simply from absorbing flavors but because egg whites are alkaline and the more alkaline you make something the low-temperature I you need for my yard reaction to take place so even at the reactions in an egg white if you cook it for a long time what's a long time 12 18 24 48 hours and now they turn brown interesting kind of brown flavors biscuit like that so you know the pressure cooker

you cook the eggs and you put in a pressure cooker and they come out within an hour or they're like a nut brown and the egg yolk smell like Thai chicken livers and the whites are brown but but here's the trick and I think he was that he wasn't when I do that kind of an egg I do not crack them before I cook them I cook them in the shell and not only do I cook them in the Shell but I cook them at a simmer for a good 6 7 minutes before I put the pressure light on and take the pressure up to the full pressure and the reason is is that I want that if if I do it the other way I get too many ruptured drive so you want them to set before you before you take the pressure way up now the only thing is if one of these eggs the shell does break it leaches the brown color and the flavor out of the egg into the water because those my our products are water soluble and so you want to make sure you keep the shell on when you do that you cook it for

4530 * 45 minutes to an hour at second language is 15 psi and then you let it cool slowly don't untap it all the sudden because then you the eggs will blow up right so you let it cool down you open it and then you have your your ham and eggs and they're great now the other kinds of eggs that I do when I'm doing in the pressure cooker I separate them before I do not ride so I do I can do egg yolks in the in the pressure cooker and I can do egg whites in the but I never cook them at the same time together I separate them now the yolks I was trying I can never get the yolks by themselves in the pressure cooker to taste the way that they do in a humming pressure cook egg they never get that chicken giblets flavor but the trick that I do have with it when I made those muffin things is that by adding a small amount of baking powder which is we get a mistake I wanted to add soda to it because I wanted to make it more

so that it would have some of the same flavors that it gets when he cooks in the egg itself but the person I told to go run the test for me putting powder instead and the actual yolk turns into that muffin sandwiches and one of the things to do in the block and then I later found out nothing modernist cuisine as well I later found out that you don't even need the pressure cooker you can just makes egg yolks sugar for flavor and baking powder and then steam it in a regular oven and turns into a bun in the amount of baking powder you add changes the texture from something that's very kind of dance and Cakey to something it's very kind of hamburger Bunny and they're they're good like eight you need to get it just right I like it when there's a little bit of soy in a little bit of sugar in it but some people really like them and some people really don't like them those things and then the whites will Brown make the I've never as far as I know I got to go back and look at it together and there's no way I could ever get a yoke to float in the middle of it

pressure cooker

now that's like but other hand I would remember because I don't care

Fresno is there a couple times we've never done it for never done it I haven't done is been a long time to do a lot of cooking original cooking demo recently with a searzall what do you like that that's honest anyway I miss doing the cooking demos and I mean anything that begin with cocktails is only a certain amount of work you can add right

wow and I was up I can't believe we just got through we got to all the questions but actually we got a question in on Twitter can imagine you watching Fat Albert characters do you like Mushmouth the movie I like some of the actors in the movie terrible why does not a problem when you freeze french fries before you cook them because he saying doesn't when you freeze them when you get a lot of retrogradation in the french fry and in that would ruin it right and then say what may be increased water laws for increase crunchiness is why it's why it's good Let me put some stuff out on the table here from scratch

is what happens when you cook a starch out right it loses its crystalline form and turns into what they called amorphous form right and then and that's a cooked starch product bread pasta whatever right right and that's how it goes from being crystallized a to nokris lights and loses its crystal structure retrogradation is what happens when overtime the Stark recrystallizes and that's one of the primary mechanism for rent and for all kind of start staying staying at stealing things going stale that way like potatoes going stale starch retrogradation

so

starch retrogradation is actually halted but not halted but drastically slowed by freezing however so that you're not retrograding when you're when you're in the freezer here's the trick as you start retrogradation is fastest right at refrigerator temperatures that's why if anyone ever put bread in the fridge you you should smack him hard don't hurt them but make them understand you know that bread in the fridge is a horrible idea if you ever put bread in the fridge. Are you saying

nothing nothing like what are the reasons I cuz I don't like being that person that brings a job into their friendship. I don't know I don't like when people comment on this like if someone does something that is like a straight-up the structure of quality that's easily solved like a someone if someone throws tomatoes in the fridge right fresh tomatoes in the fridge you're not like or if they've already brought you Tomatoes refrigerated there's not much you can say right but it's like you see it tomato in the fridge and you're not going to cook it that night anyway you know you spent good money on his tomato and your kind of like hosing it by putting

in the fridge just thought you might want to know you know what I mean you wouldn't do that but then you're making them better you're not hurting their feelings you're not being a jackass Jack what you think about this is it okay is it okay to help someone out it's not okay to help someone out you like to have your Bridal keep longer if you take it out of the fridge no toasted it well that's a good news so if you have bread that's tailed you can toast it and as it warms it will get better again but then as soon as it's cold it's death nightmare. It's only good then for breadcrumbs or 4 at fridge temperatures and slightly below fridge temperatures but not at freezer temperatures right so freeze freezer temperature is going to be somewhere around minus 20 Celsius around minus 4 Fahrenheit

at those places it's pretty pretty slow but the freezing rate is incredibly important so if it takes you a billion years to freeze something right then then you get a lot of retrogradation during the freezing process you also get a lot of retrogradation during the thawing process which is why if you're going to make french fries that are frozen right you want to freeze them relatively quickly and not super quickly if you freeze liquid nitrogen quickly you're not going to get the dehydration phenomena as one of the reasons that miss you alluded to this your question that french fries when they're frozen are crunchy is because freezing is a a cellular me look at it as cellular dehydration process because the ice crystals aren't forming on the inside typically of the cells of the plants or meat that you're freezing the water is extracted from the cells and Frozen extracellular majority of it unless you freeze a very quick new creation of of crystals inside the sum of the typically doesn't happen

what happening is that the water is getting squeezed out and then when you fry it right that water is more easily liberated from the french fries and crunchy or fry however you're also getting rid of a lot so you can get a kind of what we call a hollow inside you like how you don't like french fries or a hollow-core which I don't really like I don't really like hollow-core fries I like I like the in my goal is to have the inside of the fry be like a mashed potato and the outside of the fry be crunchy but not hard that's what I'm looking for so freezing a fry has a similar effects to drying the fry before you do your initial so you blanch in boiling water or salted and then you typically dry it and then first fry second fry freezing has a similar effect to drying however the freezing does kind of some or all the way through the

anyways point being that if you are going to come out here but from a bread standpoint the general rule of thumb is that every freeze cycle and thaw cycle you put it through is equal to a assuming you do it relatively quickly and have a thermal Mass right french fries have a Higher Throne because I cycle through is like the entire day is failing

so if you're going to freeze bread freeze it right now like as soon as you say as soon as you bring the bread home and you're like damn I'm not going to use this thing and freeze it right now because the freeze-thaw cycle just by itself is like eating it the next day and this is why you're losing on both sides on both the thawing side and the freezing side you're losing as the bread is spending time in that hyper retrogradation retrograding stage of just below fridge temp to just above French kept the rule of thumb that I read is about -8 to about miette about + 8 Fahrenheit Celsius

are you want to minimize the amount of time that your product stay in that zone which is why the cardinal rule with french fries down this way is Bry from Frozen right fry those suckers from Frozen and don't go through repeated freestyle Cycles if you go through repeated freestyle Cycles you're an enemy of quality if you live here in New York stay safe don't slip on the way home cooking issues

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