Cooking Issues Transcript

Episode 15: American Country Ham

I'm Sam Edwards I'm third-generation CareMaster from s Wallace Edwards & Sons in Surry Virginia we support the Heritage Radio Network because we believe in the cause and what they doing they're supporting family raised livestock small Family Farms certified Humane pasture-raised antibiotic-free basically we take the products from Heritage Foods USA in Mega Man 2 Toronto style hands prosciutto style hands bacon sausage like my grandfather did you can find us at Surrey or Virginia

Fishers banshees broadcast you're listening to cooking issues radio on a Heritage Radio Network coming to you live every Tuesday from 12 to 12:45 on Dave Arnold opposed to cooking issues and we're here with nastasha the hammer Lopez calling all your questions to the studio at 718-497-2128 that's 718-497-2128 so they were being sponsored by its walls Edwards the Ham Company I happen to know Sam Edward personally who makes it hand hand happens to be country ham particular although I know you're more of a prosciutto head but American country ham happens to be one of my favorite subjects in the whole world so I might maybe I'll talk for a second about country ham before we getting anything else Sam Edwards country ham

our sponsor today his family is been in surgery for you know I don't know probably a couple hundred years so my dad series across the river from Smithfield which is kind of the well-known name in American country hams they don't really make a good country ham in Smithfield anymore but cos and my words really doesn't mention his grandfather started the business his grandfather actually wrote an interesting article back I think it's sometime in the sixties and it was about peanut fed Hogs used to be you everyone talks about the Bayeux to Fed Hogs that you get out of out of Spain that make the best meal most delicious in fact they do make delicious ham because of the basically acorns if you Spanish hogs eat give them a that's a lot of unsaturated fat and it changes the fact characteristics of the hand which means that the ham has awesome taste you can't really get any other way but the only reason for The Preserve at think in Spain is because the economics are such that they're not allowed to chop down the forest where those nuts a producer that they have these they have the ability to produce at where's weed

are hams used to kick a similar level of but in fact techniques are are are amazing and so Sam Edwards grandfather I think in the sixties are quoting one saying that hand production is going to hell in a handbasket because because we're not feeding the peanuts anymore we have a lower Slaughter weight than we used to because of the order of the more the enzyme the enzyme profile and older hog is different from the one in younger hog and a larger older hog aside from being bigger that can take more age also the enzyme profiles different which going to lead to a better tasting hands all things that we've done that aside American curing is totally different from any other kind of curing ham curing and two totally different product like should not be confused with prosciutto should not be confused with Serrano like these are like you know Axwell American treasures and Sam Edwards is one of the few people who's still up fairly large production know if you can buy it here in in New York or he can ship is USDA that is doing a very

traditional are Great American Products in traditional with in Virginia would be kind of a heavy smoke on an on his hands and you can make sure you get one for him that are you know year of the year older and then actually I'm traveling tomorrow to Kentucky I'm going to tour another great hand producer Fishkill Farms Fishkill Farms out of Kentucky is another great old producer and I know a lot of people who produced hands and Kentucky so think finchdale think turn on Mason's which is Nancy mahaffey's ham place these are people also have been curing 400 years not them personally with their family is neon a lot of these guys moved to Kentucky back when Kentucky was still Virginia so I will be visiting I'll be visiting finchville Farms tomorrow actually it's the first time I've been there so I'm excited along with obviously drinking a lot of bourbon so probably talk about that more next week or next week we might be doing the show live for are doing it live from London or second Road show is going to be in London next week going to be out in London doing the what's the name of the show

it just called the London cocktail week and yeah

I'm still on to some questions cuz we have some email questions from 4 if I can just find them all my gosh oh my gosh I was the first ones Nancy versus Nest ball that's right so okay so some of you might recall several weeks ago we tried to answer the question what was her name again

Colleen Colleen she's a very tall woman and she's having problems with with countertops countertops eyes and we call Mark Ladner Mark Ladner is the newest four-star Chef in New York City because Del posto his restaurant just got upgraded the four stars in the in the ER time so congratulations and he is tall he's Explorer and so here's what he wrote back we asked him how do you deal with it with this problem of being very tall so when I was younger I often hunched over which dog is he horrible for my back and neck when I built El posto I had a kitchen designer who recommended a 42 inch counter Which is higher than a normal what 36-35 design for gray crunches also I guess talk and he says it Discounters a lifesaver he says most except for the very short love it and he doesn't see any reason why does Colleen Wright should not be allowed to use her special adapter unless it's unsafe or unsanitary and he hopes that that's helpful so we have it we have a caller caller you are on the air

going well is true story I don't know why can I caught me off-guard me to cut garlic is pretty complex and easy to burn because it's got a high sugar content I think that's why it burns so easy a but I don't like that accurate burnt taste that you get I don't know exactly what's going on it has to be like all of the interesting stuff with garlic has to do with garlic doesn't really have that much of its characteristic sharp pungent flavor until it's been cut right so what happens is that there's enzymes in the garlic when you cut it or crush it those enzymes are acting on there like they're always forget the names it's like Alan Alan and Allison and all these alababa Blas like they're like these chemicals that start out being relatively odorless and then I'll develop all of their all their Prime

after they're cut and then a modified more or less by cooking and since those are the chemicals that lead to the pungency I would think those are also the ones that lead to kind of us acrid flavor Twin Lakes when they're cooked when they get burnt but I can't say for sure there is an excellent book out on the subject is called I believe it's called garlic and other aliens I just bought it asked to read it but is very dense so I can't remember whether there was any explanation that goes too much look into but next week we have Harold McGee we have a list of stuff to ask Carol from the radio show we can make one. Make a list and I'll ask him that whether he knows specifically what it is because it he read that book and spoke to the person so he he start a lot about that kind of a problem as soon as I should know off the top of my head but I do know however when you pressure cook garlic

it it actually destroys a lot of day of the pungency so that in fact you know how even when you roast garlic you need when you roast it still if you eat a lot of it and it comes out of your pores over the over the course of several Days Inn in your co-workers don't want to be anywhere near you again I know this from experience and you pressure cook garlic those principles are gone and you can actually eat a whole bunch of a garlic without in fact we make sauces that are open to 50% garlic and that no one has a problem with them and it's very mellow mellow flavor and it's because a lot of those sulfur containing compounds that are in the garlic to give it its pungency are kind of destroyed by that by the high heat on the inside of a pressure cooker

okay so we have a common core rights and it says he has a handful of things on his mind lately so what let's look at those handful of things that are wrong with mine vacuum chamber using a compressor harvested from a window mounted air conditioner to make a vacuum I love this kind of DIY kind of you know do-it-yourself kind of stuff and you said it works wonderfully but he's wondering about running it for more than a few minutes at a time cuz he's afraid he's going to burn it out you know I wouldn't worry about it so much too kind of bait the great granddaddy of websites dealing with this problem is called the Bell jar and Bell jar being an old vacuum cleaner you put things in back in the Bell jar so the Bell jar and it's based on a bunch of Articles published a long long time ago in Scientific American the amateur scientists were fantastic like I had when I was a kid like how to build laser amazing stuff Scientific American told amateur scientist, freaking amazing amazing stuff anyway the Bell jar has a list of these things and it and talked a lot about making vacuum pumps cheaply out of air conditioning units and

generation units and a lot of what capabilities of your unit are depend on whether it's a rotary pump or whether it's a piston pump most refrigerator compressors are Piston Pumps you're not going to operate and nearly as well at low vacuum Aziz Aziz rotary pumps are so you know a lot of air conditioners have a rotary pump so it's a long as you keep the thermal overload switch on the on the you should be fine because if it cuts out it's not going to get hurt you all so I'll just have to make sure that you didn't let the oil drain out of it you know otherwise it's going to burn out very quickly but you should be able to run it no problem if it's overheating you'll be able to tell because it's exposed you also makes a good note please don't just cut out a compressor out of an air conditioner and let the freon spray everywhere because you're opening yourself up to a fine and you're destroying the environment I might also say don't use a saw when you're cutting a compressor off of something because the little filings can get into the compressor and then that's bad bad bad bad news, that's more questions but first we're going to go to a collar

color you are on the air hey how you doing will be out to see you and it's just a couple of London just a couple of days

appreciate appreciate it I want to present ahead of time as soon as he'd and then finish them off on the grill so I can get some cut them up and for how long shrimp and prawns are interesting because they contain enzymes in them that if you if you cook them for extended periods of time they must return to a paste and so and sous-vide is very very good way first of all to infuse flavor into into them and also to make sure that you don't know the flavor leeches out when you're cooking but you're you're going to want to make sure that you get you do it fairly quickly you want to make sure that the that it's cooked through in like

you know I would I would keep it if you can Under 12 minutes like that is otherwise going to start breaking it down a good thing to do is run a test just to see what happens when you cook it for a long long time you'll see it just gets really gets really nasty one way to do it if you like more traditional texture is obviously to put the bag into a very high temp water and that's what someone like George Prelude would do where he cooks or shellfish almost in boiling water even went into vacuum bags another option if you want to go more like a detective that people want us like a butter poach Lobster sound like that is to run it more like 65 degrees for like Celsius for like you know 10 10 to 12 minutes once it's out of it's shell obviously you know what I mean so that might be a similar thing you do with with with a prawn or shrimp that's going to give you a soft texture more you know more akin to the higher side and then obviously you confirm it with your finishing step across on the outside and get it done but you really the key thing with

is just a not cook it for too long because it's going to be a cool it down quick after it comes out because it's just going to be a complete nightmare to you you're going to get you cannot believe how bad the texture of a long cooked shrimp or prawn can be I mean it doesn't always happen but it happens enough and if you have to spit it out it's like just good to just terrible thing to CVS that because if I do like a 10:12 and cook it and it's not a pleasant flavor tool right in a flash and flash finishing a quilt

the one thing you want to be really careful of is that is that the shells on shrimp and prawns almost always pop vacuum bags so you going to want to either double bag or wrap them in in something to protect the bag and to make sure that you have either date in the air doesn't come back into the chamber too fast because you're going to start popping your bags and after you pack them you're going to want to let them sit for it's good to marinate anyway if you're going to use like oil and salt and pepper or something I don't know what your recipe is but you know inside the bag you know then you're going to want to let it sit for a half hour or so not just to pick up the flavor of whatever you put in but also to make sure you don't have any holes in it right then I would I would go for a fairly quick cook like like maybe 10 the size of it like 10 10 minutes to 10 to 12 at at like 65 or something like that

color and taste on the outside of the shell without having to worry about cooking the inside okay maybe you can get some photos in as well that's great thanks so much for 97212 871-497-2128 cooking issues

this is a public service announcement from added-value join us Saturday October 16th at the Red Hook Community Farm celebrate the Harvest visit Brooklyn's largest urban farm delicious seasonal foods from local restaurants EC the good Fork Kevin's The Lobster Pound and rice and of course pick up your produce at the Red Hook farmers market for more information call 718-855-5531 that's 718-855-5531 or visit www. Added value. Org this has been a public service announcement from added value

and welcome back to cooking issues calling your questions right now to 718-497-2128 that's 718-497-2128 coming to you live from Roberta's in Brooklyn New York okay we have some more common questions here is quite a few questions will try to hit them all so, to refresh if you didn't listen the first segment, and build his own vacuum machine is on back chamber vacuum machine using a pump out of a compressor out of an air conditioner and there's lots of over the past couple of years people who have done this kind of DIY Chambers but not just for food packing for making models for doing vacuum bagging like when they're doing resin lot of good reasons to build vacuum pumps out there in a lot of sites with a lot of great information on it so he asked a question can the walls of quart size canning jars with stand full vacuum 14 PSI oh yes they can in fact I use this trick all the time when we were if you have a vacuum machine and you don't have what's called gas blush so it when you're using a vacuum machine and you have

it means that you suck a vacuum in the bag but if you if you were then seal it let the air come back in and say you had potato chips are you looking for right so you have something called gas flush and what that is is that you suck all the air out so all the moisture is gone Snyder potato chips are not going to go in there's no Oxygen to the potato chip rancid. Going to get soft and nasty and then you inject a neutral gas back in using nitrogen and sometimes depending what you doing CO2 or some crazy and then you seal it and then when the air comes back in there so that it's bag is still puffy your potato chips don't get smashed in fact because they're inside of a pillow

so this is a technique that you can use if you don't have gas flush which we just got actually in our new we have new vacuum machine to school and will be reporting that at some point but the if you don't have gas to court and larger leader canning jars are a very good way to do it I would get them and they can take the pressure no problem what I would do is I would get the ones not the ones that have the the the thin metal lid that you've been prying up and the reason is that they seal once great and then like after you open the lid to pry it up by make a noise when it pops up a lot of times they won't reseal I like the old-style ones that have a glass lid and a glass vase and a rubber gasket and then you just set the rub that set the lid with the gasket on top of your canning jar take all the metal hardware off of it is just going to get in your way suck the vacuum in there when the vacuum comes back the lid gets smashed back onto the top and the actual vessel takes the pressure for you not your potato chips are going to hit those are going to pack and those

vacuums I've had them last for months and months sometimes you get a bad seal on those but you can usually tell within you know a couple of hours to add a the seal on that jars not going to have any good when your canning with those things you see the rubber seals they have a lid on it right so you boil them and you know you boil them I guess start boiling them and then maybe seal them while they're boiling and then they end then as it as the as it cools down you'll suck a partial vacuum on the top and then you have to open it I mean it's like I guess it's an old is I've never actually use them to can only use them to package things but they're great you can get them in most in mostar houseware stores and we use them all the time so if you're bringing something that's crisp like apple chips or potato chips or methyl sale at 5800 morang pause which is what we do a lot you know what you can keep them for a long time and you can email travel in a rainstorm me know through Louisiana in a bio what it doesn't matter in it and the stuff's not going to go bad on you so it's actually really good

for bringing stuff with you not as good as having gas flush but because it's such a pain in the butt but anyway the same for me texture that you get from from doing freeze drying and he wants to know how can happen to do that well that's a pain in the butt, because freeze-drying is a really good technique for doing that nothing else really approximates freeze-drying they freeze drying does so the way I freeze dryer works is you freeze something usually a fairly low temperature to get to minimize the destruction stuff to that sell quickly in the temperature and then you let it you put a very strong vacuum on it and you let it heat up slowly in that tell the water inside of it basically sublimates what that means as you put it in a condition where the water doesn't doesn't want to go from a solid to a liquid and then to a gas and just evaporates directly from a solid to a gas and so what that means is that the structure of the product

is held rigidly buy it by the ice until the water leaves it at which point it is maintained destruction that's why you have things that look pretty much life size but they have no more water and they're very porous they're crunchy the great and that's freeze-drying equipment is usually somewhat expensive needed you need a fairly good vacuum pump you also knew would call the cold trap because everything that you everything you suck off you then need to re condensed backs you need a fairly cold cold trap I tried to do it kind of a ghetto style freeze dryer using my rotary evaporator but my pump isn't quite good enough by vacuum pump isn't quite good enough so Talbot ideas in food has one you know a couple of restaurants have them I think I think maybe Laurent Gras might have one or two I don't know anyone we don't have Sunday

so but there is an interesting patent that's been apply for think it's still under patent so if you do this you're going to be breaking all kinds of patent laws I don't really care about that but there's a technique called base capacity fruit puffing using vacuum and then carbon dioxide and if you are the kind of person who can rip apart an air conditioner and build a vacuum chamber than you are also the kind of person who can do this and hope I don't have time to do it so maybe you can do it and tell me tell me how it works what you do first thing you do is you partially dehydrated product tell us down to like about 60% 20 to 60% water you can do that with a standard dehydration or you can use with call osmotic dehydration what that is as you put you put your fruit into a knit a very intense sugar syrup and that draws the water out has Monica seles moderate dehydration so you can do it that way you could do it with partial dehydration step but the trick is to get rid of I think about half the half the water so a little under half the water then you take your apple slices this point

can you put them into into your vacuum chamber and you suck a full vacuum on them for a little bit right then you put a CO2 tank on and you pressurize it to about you know a little over 200 PSI right so and that's the minimum is about in the patent literature the minimum about 220 PSI a CO2 and you want to leave that for like 60 Minutes under the high pressure CO2 tanks what's happening is a CO2 is going into the fruit and it's basically getting it's going all the way into the the cells and then you want to vent it over the course of like 30 seconds so after that 60 Minutes you've entered over the course of 30 seconds and the rapidly escaping CO2 takes with it the water and pulses food up at the same time so that's dehydrates and any further dehydration you can probably do in a normal dehydrator some like that so to room temperature technique so similar to freeze drying that way and it doesn't require as much expensive equipment as a as a as a freeze dryer

so if you can try this vacuum and CO2 puffing Colin I would be much obliged if you then tell us how it works and post pictures but be extremely careful with pressure vessels make sure that you were using a pressure vessel that can handle the pressure I don't want anyone blowing something up and you know basically creating a pipe bomb and killing themselves over something I said so you know certain schedule 40 pipe which is a standard pipe you get will not handle this kind of pressure is safely schedule 80 pipe some schedule 80 pipe can handle it so just be careful and make sure you know what you're doing this but I'd love to see someone try that even though I think it'd be infringing on a bunch of patents and Nina that they might come arrest you but again hopefully not and he's making an alternate bath and he wants to know how long he can keep it all right so I don't know what we talked about this ever know I don't even think about the pancakes pancakes

weed and what it does is it's the stuff that people make little balls out of in restaurants like they call it caviar bubble butt and a standard thing is huge and by the way it's also how they make the pimento on the inside of an olive it's how they make baked onion rings it's how they me know some dog foods are made this way until you take the seaweed sodium alginate and you mix it in and whenever it touches anything with calcium in it it all the sudden turns to gel right so the standard technique that you know it was used for forever to make fake blueberries and it was used also by science teachers who you know do it and science but the famous early restaurant application was Ferran Adria is actually coming to speak French going to rain today going to be signing books coming to that come to the FCI so so far on famously made melon caviar out of alginate and Elgin it in restaurants was born a problem with with alginate is is that it doesn't really have a great texture taste and in fact that steals tastes like a flavor Thief so alginate and also the other promises you make these balls you Dropout turn it into into Cash

CMP forms is beautiful sphere but then over the course of next couple of minutes it turns solid I want to turn solid completely unpleasant if it doesn't pop in your mouth and it's unpleasant so then the next step is it being a chef started doing with called reverse alginate so in Reverse out in it instead of dropping I'll turn it into a calcium bath and forming a little balls dropping calcium into a knowledgement bad and then you get a little film of of alginate around it but the inside stays liquid forever right and so and so that is kind of I think it's it's a better take me from a from a food stand point but then you have his algiknit bass sitting around the question is how long can you keep a towel and a bath without it going bad I've never kept one longer than about two or three days but a lot of it depends on how heavily to use how much calcium in your gets touches it and you have to use something called us a question answer what is the question is is a sequestrant sucks up the calcium that's inside of your solution and stops it from causing the algae in it to react until there's so much calcium there

in a reaction happen and they in in the two good sodium citrate as kind of the sequester the people that have lying around it's not so good so you took place also a buffer which is good but it's kind of crap you really want to use sodium hexametaphosphate I'll say it again cuz that's a pain in the butt sodium hexametaphosphate hexametaphosphate shmp shampoo and a little little dab'll do ya on that one you know you get yourself up a couple hundred grams of that that's a lifetime supply of shrimp and put it into your into your aljunied bath and it should last a good long a good long time we actually did a demo recently Josh and I for what type of a show called foodography McGriddle kind of which is the app for those of you that I know how I don't I have never had a McGriddle but it's basically a McDonald's puts like crystals of maple syrup or some sort of maple syrup group on the inside of their pancake

who is Natalie in Arabic of the pancake becomes like a sandwich with egg inside we did reverse alginate we mix calcium with maple syrup and then put into it so we had these little balls of maple syrup that then when you bit into and they pop you actually get a pop of maple syrup and refolded a bunch of them into a pancake batter buttermilk pancake batter be your standard buttermilk pancake batter and cook them and they're actually pretty good I thought they were delicious delicious a good long time we're going to go to a break. We are going to come back from a second session but calling your questions to 718-497-2128 that's 718-497-2128 cooking issues

you know what I look like this

yeah yeah yeah

welcome back to cooking issues calling your questions to +718-497-212-8718 for 97212 8 we're going to be here for about another 15 minutes and by the way we mentioned the list for going to keep a question you can ask me he's in Japan right now or we would call and ask him right now but the man himself is coming to the French culinary for his class next week the 21st and 22nd of October and there are still slots available for those of you that want to come meet the man in person and take Addie to De Maguey letra series glass different colors to it's a class unlike any other we're going to be doing some killing some fish we might be doing what else we going to be getting a giant Lobster lime juice to it's a it's a it's a class on my check it out on the front shackle on our website which is a French culinary., thanks

question from Patrick Broly in general what percentage of ascorbic acid to use as an antioxidant and so that the thing is ascorbic acid is its vitamin C right so and we use it all the time or when we're doing fruits like apples or anyting else it's going to turn brown we put ascorbic acid in to prevent it from turning brown in fact we put scorpyd acid into apple juices we make it it'll stay Green in fresh tasting until it actually spoils it will never go Brown and never had that oxidized Apple taste and the question of percentage is an interesting one spoke to Neils about it actually is morning we always just add but I've never actually measure how much ascorbic acid we're doing it's not hypercritical how much you use it but I did some research and usually it how much you use depends on your application so if you're going to make a fliss are cutting apples and you're going to put ascorbic acid into the water and you going to try to try to keep it then it's usually a higher dose or going to dehydrate at then afterwards

ascorbic acid enough to get on the Apple to have it really make a difference then you're going to probably use something on the order of

6 grams a liter something like that right but if you're adding it to juice then you probably need a lot less you probably need like maybe half of that like three grams per liter usually just add like you know a teaspoon or so to per quart or something like that or less but it doesn't it doesn't really affect the flavor that much ascorbic acid is a much lower has a much lower impact on Flavor than like citric acid which brings me to my next Point never confuse citric acid in ascorbic acid ascorbic acid is vitamin C ascorbic acid is the antioxidant citric acid and does not taste like lemon it's an has an acidic taste but doesn't taste like lemons citric acid does not have the same antioxidant power as ascorbic acid citric acid does taste like the acid in lemons right but they're often confused sour salt that you buy in the supermarket is citric acid right I want to make sure you get ascorbic acid and when you buy ascorbic acid

you go to GNC or whatever your vitamin store and you buy vitamin C powder pills you want to make sure you get the straight stuff and not stuff it's like. Rose hips and all this other nonsense because that's going to add flavor you really not looking to add flavor to to your product so if you're going to make apple cider and you put it in there is it not going to turn the apple cider Brown It's Not only not going to turn the apple cider Brown it's not going to taste like apple cider it's going to taste like fresh apples right so they so they so when we're doing work where we want the Apple we want the characteristic flavor of an apple Eclipse they were juicing like you know my favorite ashmead's kernel right I want the juice to taste like at the apple variety and I want it and by the way this Tasha 9 next week when we go to London we're going to go to the Brookdale collection which is Cornell has the finest collection of biggest what I mean and also find a collection of apples in the world but they also have a lot of non culinary apples to Brookdale which is near the UK's apple collection

and can't sit outside of London they have the largest collection of culinary apples in the world Sonos. And I are going to go there and I'm going to eat so many apples that that basically they have to show of a like a needle in my stomach and like evacuate all of the craziness of his I'm going to eat apples until I pass out basically I'm going to take if I become allergic to apples actually the last couple of years I'm going to bring a whole bunch of Benadryl with me I'm just going to ask me to wait until my throat starts to swell I'm going to inject myself with with epinephrine and take Benadryl because I am there to eat as many apples as is humanly possible and will report back so if you're juicing ashmead's kernel which I hope to taste next next week because our supplier vacuums car that was destroyed this year because there was a killing Frost and in parts of the Northeast this year in your juicing and you want that taste of the fresh Apple if you want the juice that tastes like you just been into that Apple - a crunch then you use ascorbic acid and it's going to retain its original color and its original flavor

not the flavor we associate with apple juice to flavor we associate with apple juice and apple cider is that brown flavor because the oxidation doesn't just change the color it also change the flavor and so you only add it if you're looking for that fresh flavor and you don't add it if you want that that cider and or and or juice flavor but that said I love that fresh flavor and it makes me really great mixers and so can you see your own apples we use a squid go to ascorbic acid like it's like it's going out of style are Jell-O you're having a blast coming up to I would push the class but it's sold out where we teach you how to use all these things like a guitars and then also me clue you were going to show you how to use FPL which is the enzyme we used to do clarifications all the stuff great but unfortunately I think the class we maybe it's not sold out check on the French culinary., I think it's I think it's sold out not sure

so he's making Patrick making a an agar gel a car's another seaweed gel it's great one I highly recommend that you know if you just started playing with hydrocolloid use agar because you can use to clarify you can use to set gels you can use to make fluid gel for termite one of my favorite things to do with Hydro College in the kitchen but he wants to make the problem with that Garza Garza Middle right side breaks her usually he's trying to increase the elasticity and he says typically you would do that by adding another gumpo locust bean gum another natural gum that one's for basically ground up seeds and so then the question is is that he doesn't want to use a in the locust bean gum basically just modifies they agar so it's less brittle so it's like a sick in her like that to a gel so think you can make it a little bit softer he said is there anything else you can use well because he could he says LBG look at them in the physical LBG it's too expensive I don't know what the per pound cost is on LBG when you're buying it

but you're not going to use that much I will go ahead and buy the LBG unless you make cuz you know one pound of LBG you should be more than enough to do 200 200 more 300 lb of Jesse's a softener I don't know what you're charging what they're charging for it I mean check Terrace bison in the US I don't know or the sanctuary they sell it but the problem is you can go with a much cheaper gum like Gwar but Gwar it tastes terrible guard another Bean it's very similar to locust bean gum not quite as good probably at modifying the texture but it will work the problem with choir like I said it tastes horrible unless you by Flavour free Gwar from t i c gum but I don't know how cheap the t i c gums flavor free Gwar is but that is one way around it so hopefully that is helpful and we have one last question from Norway

so Eric from the real spelling with a K like Eric from Norway race in and he's making he's in a restaurant in Norway and he's making a lot of lobster stock and he's making a lobster stock and then reducing it for use later and he says that he's getting a good he's getting good taste out of lobster stock presumably he's doing it tradition traditional way we could you break up the lobster shells you wrote where you roast and roast and our breakup or both and whichever one it is really matter to you get some color on them and then you break them up and then you you cook them in and liquid to extract to flavor from the show right that's typically then you would straighten out the shells and then you would use a stock after that he would do so that makes it makes a reduction Ivy says it's usable but it doesn't taste like fresh Lobster you have a better way to do it and can you do it the pressure cooker and cuz he needs an excuse to get one but I will I will do anything I can send me a menu I'll give you an excuse to buy a pressure cooker but this is not that excuse because I was talking to

about this actually earlier today you don't eat one of the main problems people have when they make a lot of any sort of crustaceans stock is a boil the they boiled the shells too long and all the sudden the stock will take on this like horrible we ascribe it on the technically weather it is but knows I always called the calcium taste and all the sudden starts to taste not like the shellfish itself but like literally like a chewing on shell so we describe that to like maybe the calcium being reached out so while I've never done it so I'm always horrified I'm always making sure that people don't leave the shells in my stocks too long when we're doing it because I dread that tastes Once you pull it out and you reduce it that that's fine you're never going to get that taste but

NYC news so don't use a pressure cooker on that one because I'm almost guarantee you that the higher temperature is going to cause an increase release of of that stuff and you're going to get that tastes and I can't I'm almost guaranteeing it because I haven't actually done it but that's my feeling that's my strong feeling that that's what's going to happen but no said that you because he had tested as I asked him what he can get a fresh flavor if you don't roast the shells before hand you're not going to have s intensive flavor but maybe it's going to be okay cuz you going to reduce it but it might be closer to a a fresh Lobster flavor another thing you know he can clarify this talking is going to lose a lot of flavor out of it I don't think he's going to lose a lot of flavor if you clarify your stock like doing a joke clarification like that but if you're preserving the oil he said he had the oil on the top of the stock takes the oil if you most by the back into the stock anyway we're going to the most Firewheel back into the stocks part of reduction I don't necessarily see the point in clarifying it because you're you're just going to make it unclear once you

Patty Whalen anyway so if you're going to have oil in it I don't see the point of clarifying it but clarifying the water phase by itself isn't I don't think any damage the flavor that might make it cleaner a little lighter butt cleaner one last suggestion I have for you to really expect some flavor out of it if you might consider breaking the shelves up at a roasting they're not putting on the flavor you want and then doing circulating some butter in the shells first to extract some of the oil so I will flavors basically making like a lobster butter Reserve that then do a stock with that suck out all the water soluble stuff then reduce that then do your emulsifying like almost like you were finishing the reduction with the with the basically lobster butter you've made and then you should get the maximum amount of flavor out of those shells without hopefully without sucking out that the evil nasty calcium bits and you know if you do it right you should be able to get you and maybe a pressure plate with maybe you could also maybe do the butter-poached before you do the before you but do the butterflies before you roast them and then roast

then you could do all sorts of combinations but again I'm very curious as to what happens so you should write in hopefully until us and tell us what happened just don't put in the pressure cooker and I'll give you an excuse ask me another question I'll tell you need a pressure cooker but not for that one one last question I had actually came into the block is can you make bananas Christina without a centrifuge and can you do with that are clarification. For those of you that haven't come to any of our events recently at one of our favorite new drinks in fact we did it at the Heritage Radio Network fundraiser a couple weeks ago is that bananas who's Dino and so and the name is to the derivation of name is too silly to go into now they're basically we we make a rum bananas restaino and we make a bourbon asesino and so what you do is if you blend banana so when you doing bourbon bananas if they know it's 5 it's five bananas per liter of bourbon and you blend them you had a little bit of magical enzyme pectin XSP

which is in your genes in fact it doesn't it doesn't work without it could be tested it at the New York culinary experience that we did was it last week only last week together you put in a centrifuge and you spent it at 4,000 emojis for like an hour 15 minutes and you get this delicious clear delicious clear bourbon with banana in it and then you really make ice cubes that are basically either able to use it today it's brown sugar lemon and water for going to use it tomorrow and vanilla it's brown sugar citric acid and and you know water and use it later anyway and so it's a great drink and it's a garnish with a candy ginger Great Wheel of it anyway so that particular drink need to Center fuse but you could do an agar clarification of it I don't know what your yield is going to be so you might have to add me your yield might be not may I know your you won't be as good so what you would do and the other problem with agar Clara

station with bourbon is that if you don't have access to liquid nitrogen the bourbon won't freeze so either clarification my brain just went on a quick agar so then what you do is you would blend the bananas and the bourbon you would I would take some water right I would hydrate so let's say we'll do an actual recipe here right let's say you blend we think I don't like 200 g of bananas and a liter of Bourbons that's roughly 1200 ml is right let's say you took 400 mL of water borders at 1800 shoot 1800 to 6 1600 2% of that so let's say it was too late to stuff you would take for the four grams of agar you would then hydrate that in the water portion don't have the water to the bourbon in Blended bananas hydrating your water portion make sure that you put it the agar into the water cold

make sure it boils and then simmer for a couple of minutes to make sure it's hydrated temper your bourbon back and bananas back into the water and then let that set in the and wanted set breaking up with a whisk and like gently passing through cheesecloth again I don't know what your yield will be but it should get a similar result I mean the reason we use a centrifuge is I have three and the events they usually upwards of 300 default ending so you could definitely make it home this way is just so high using the year we get almost zero loss when we do it in the center Fusion so that's the reason we use a centrifuge but you can definitely make banana 1600 at home using agar and and bananas and bourbon and almost guarantee you over

right now so next week save up your questions we will be doing live from London done like last week when we did it we are going to be both mustache and I will both be in London and so I think Jack is going to be our local our local host of extra Jack our Intrepid engineer who doesn't come on the are very often but runs the show here we wouldn't have it before we go I will leave you with this at this one thing so we went we did an event last Saturday yesterday to three days in the fun fit in the city or die where you get that crazy bump in the city anyway we were at the discovery the discovery zone is Colorado to get to school it's a charter school in Harlem on 125th Street and was in Madison or V I forget between us anyway so amazing school we went to visit it's really incredible it's like it's a huge place looks amazing like it's kind of school I wish I could have gone to

anyway we're doing an event there for the Liberty Science Center in the Food Network who are putting it in a bed together and they were talking about nutrition and so they asked you know they asked us to go up and do do you know do a demonstration of that somehow I shouldn't even nutrition for a couple hundred people and immediately of course you need make acid popped into my head so gymnemic acid is that the thing we use that erases your sense of sweet so we passed out a bunch of Judy make acid which is a leaf basically from the gymnema sylvestre it's a plant from India loan Oakley has the sugar destroyer and you eat this incredibly awful tasting leaf powder and for about half an hour you can't taste anything sweet at all at all nothing no sweetness and so we passed out the powder and along with bananas not banana 16 news all kids so no liquor unfortunate strawberries marshmallows chocolate sugar honey and I think a couple other things anyway we passed Mountain bag and you were basically trying to show people

what food items taste like without the sugar in it we have to do that demo in the McGee class anyway so we had a bunch of people there and then I was on stage and a lot by the way like we opened it right so we're kind of the opening band but you know they had to Rachael Ray was on next and Mehmet Oz and some guy for men's health so I can never remember his name and Anza Alonzo Mourning real and so so I'm sitting there and I felt bad that they let you know that the people didn't have more to eat and plus there's a huge bowl of oranges on the on the counter and so I open up the orange so I can taste the or until pineapple juice to taste the orange to see kind of how bad the orange case without sugar it was awful and and so then I'm stupidly I'm sitting here eating an orange and now I feel like a bad host because I have all these people out in the audience and they don't have any oranges of course I have nowhere near enough oranges for like all the people in the audience and like an idiot I say oh to me

oh would any of you like to have an orange and of course everyone's hand shoot up right immediately sound like crap and so now I'm like yeah like the T-shirt gun lady you know I'm like hurling oranges out in the audience now I'm not exactly like Captain catch-and-throw here you know what I mean like I told this one guys like Siri I'm not very good at throwing things that I hit I got him fine he's a catch so then my biggest fear was I was going to end in fact I think I said it's like I'm going to be in someone with one of these damn oranges and I hit a lady Square in the head with an orange a bouncing straight off the top of her head I was like and like I saw her hands were there it wasn't actually a bad throw maybe was a little too much of a line drive to her but her hands were there and the Hampden close around the orange in time and it bounced off of her head and ended the lady behind her caught it so his total total orange pandemonium but I think no one came up and tried to beat the crap out of me afterwards so I think they are

yeah anyway so yeah so that that was it was a lot of fun and hopefully those guys got something out of it anyway so get your questions ready for cooking issues coming to you live from London next week this is been cooking issues on the Heritage Radio Network brought you by S Wallace Edwards fine country hams


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