Cooking Issues Transcript

Episode 141: It’s Paste!

today's program has been brought to you by underground meats and American producer of handcrafted salami and cured meats in Madison Wisconsin for more information visit shop. Underground food Collective. Org or stop by their butcher shop in Madison Wisconsin you are listening to Heritage Radio Network broadcasting live from Bushwick Brooklyn do you like this program visit Heritage Radio Network. Org mm Smith

MP3 in the back of a in Bushwick Bushwick you think this is the front end of Bushwick I think people actually live in Bushwick my disagree I mean this is like East industrial Williamsburg Park stuff Jack and Jill has the oxidized wine that that she actually enjoys she likes various varieties of oxidized wine products

not really I've been having it has something to do with the color I like the orange color I like the the weird taste

that sounds like you all right listen to say actually a real point is I don't want people to think that I'm showing out for sponsors here cuz I had no idea underground Meats was first or second I think maybe once or twice before but he was here recently cool dude down as I guess she said folks with people from Madison Wisconsin I mean just Johnny hunter from underground meets a little kids I used to go to Oshkosh for the flying you know there was a fine but people from Madison freaking love it like everyone that went to school up there everyone that they freaking love it or meet someone from Madison was like yeah man Madison everybody I know for Madison is obsessed with a card game called Sheepshead like Sheepshead Bay but not but not Sheepshead Bay

card game and whenever Madison people get together they play Sheepshead what's a game cheese or beer well I'm sure it's going on there in in Madison right they have a Kickstarter and I read about it's actually quite an interesting Kickstarter so I just talked about your first want to search to go to anywhere I guess the Google and search for underground underground meats and the kickstarter and you'll get it right away and it's very interesting they have a they have a the right to sell their cured meats and charcuterie on a state level right they have Wisconsin State approval but they want to get USDA approval so they can sell across

state line so they can prove a cell across state line in order to do that you need to have it called validated has a plan for you guys hit that don't know what has a plan for hazard analysis critical control points and its fundamental Corps the corps of food safety in the United States and actually other countries as well and it was originally designed for the space program space program when they were doing that they realized that if an astronaut. Food poisoned in space it could be it could have some serious serious serious consequences so it's not really why I just don't want to be second space so they wanted to have a zero-tolerance policy on a foodborne illness in in space and so they applied a lot of the same

verification and checking techniques to the food was going into the space program as is going into the individual components the switches the wires do you know that the materials that were in the spacecraft from sell the large companies figured out a way to innocent as best you can guarantee food safety big big companies were involved in the program it just became the over overarching way that we do food safety in the US and what it stands for is Hazard analysis you first have to analyze the hazards in a hazard can be anything from maybe some person was picking fruit in a field somewhere and their ring fell off and their ring fell off into this has happened to me and then it ends up in your equipment and then somehow ends up in your food and then you chew on the ring and no lo and behold you crack your tooth that's a hazard right Analyze That Hazard hazard

fun things like actual foreign object damage stuff like that foreign objects to adult I like a deliberate adulteration by things like terrorists which is why a lot of that has it also got that big boost in terms of traceability after 9/11 to of destroying pathogens to ensuring the Coltrane all of these things are analyzing where there could be possible hazards within the day date the food chain all the way from the where the wrong reading was produced until the consumer puts it in her mouth right now you haven't called critical control point you say okay I know there's a hazard you know person might drop their ring into the basket of fruit that they're picking now you have to have a control Point well so how am I going to control to make sure that the ring doesn't make it into the apple pie well let's say I put a metal detector at the front of the factory when your apples come in all the apples go through metal detector

there's any metal we make sure we take it out that's a control point I guess they wanted a catchy things they call that ass up cuz it's actually a third and very important part to happen that's verification you have to have log books has Bill to verify that you checked and verify that your control points are adequately monitoring your product ensure that their safe houses critical control point and verification John Francis modified hatch a plan simple house plans are put in place all the time and restaurants for isn't here in New York for sous vide cooking but also it's used in a much more kind of screwed down tight and down button down way industrial by everyone who's a commercial food producer now the issue if you're going to get a USDA approval to do something like charcuterie if you need with call a validated has a plan rights and what does validated has a plan is not only that you shown in theory that you have analyzed all the hazard and that you have chosen the correct critical control points and that you are verify

improperly you have two then prove it with an outside third-party Source in that cost money to Collective Give me a review on food safety news. Calm about this Kickstarter they're doing 40 Grand right they raised the 40 Grand they can hire the outside sources do the microbiology and do all the things to prove that the techniques that they're writing down for curing Meats do in fact kill pathogens right they going to cuz we were going to measure the salt content of p h i don't know if they going to measure water activity what they're going to they're going to verify that the techniques and tools that they use to verify safety for the salumi products if they're making you going to verify that those things aren't facts safe and then they have to pay someone to verify that for them so here's the comments by by someone named JT on the internet on the article on food safety. Because it's the classic people who make comments on the internet presumably in their pajamas late at night

are there while they're shipping on on their on their last glass of wine before they hit the better while they're watching Jerry Springer they think they can make a comment that it is useful to here's what JT said and I'm only saying this because I want people to know kind of where this can chemicals wrong so you don't think the same way because these guys are doing and they're going to have their own validated has a plan but then it should anyone who uses the same procedures and same equipment can then use that same has a plan without having to Shell out 40 Grant JT rice an incorrectly if you understand this is about like why but I'll paraphrase JT what do you need to hire someone else to do that's how I imagined a teatox because he said if you understand your processes and how to make them safe and clean you should really be able to develop your own has a plan based on the numerous guide and templates it already exists she already at like a lack of hunger

can you have a template for a theoretical has a plan that you need a verified has a plan for specific procedures especially something like salumi where you're dealing with multi-factorial burial barriers to killing a bacterial pathogen like water activities salt content pH all intertwined and time whatever anyway you should really be able to if you need to hire a third-party to develop your has a play forget that you need to because you need to prove it now if you need to provide the actual scientific you can go anyone who cares to can go on the fsis which is whatever it is food safety inspection service Weber website and read what's required to get a validated has a plan cuz right there on the thing and I know it's for you or else too long to it to read but they they have it there if first you have to get your own scientific a bowstring facts right from actual scientific literature literature and that does exist which thankfully it doesn't escape if that doesn't exist you have to provide it and then you have to do

set an in practice prove that your text Pacific techniques if you need a plan then you probably should not be in the business you're in because that means you are highly ignorant about how to safely produce two products or JT you were highly ignorant about regulation so please go check out their Kickstarter and remember if you enjoy the ability for small producers who cannot afford to have it has a plan if you would enjoy to have more of those people around in our country making delicious products or at least making products that they believe in if your support people doing what they believe in and then you should go take a look at this Kickstarter waiting on the whole issue breaking down house open and everything

Lonnie if you do okay got some questions in Steven Steven Van Zandt Road in earlier he says it hey I asked you called last week about transmit termination hydrocolloid polymerization resources to post but I can't remember for the life of me what I said I was going to post it may even remember what the heck I said I was going to post someone likes Stephen tweeden to me and tell me exactly what I said I was going to post and I'll make sure that I do it because you got a motor like my mind I could totally like goes blank fritters and runs away with me this email is lost so is many weeks for long periods of time being a medical student that he says I like to cook on we hope to cook on weekends and reheat them before or at school thanks okay well

there a lot of products that you can fax at one of the main benefits of now it was good to be in particular of sous-vide cooking is you can pre circulate a lot of your stuff and then just retherm it you can't bizarre things you can't say reheat because reheat is a technical term food that you can say to home doesn't matter but like it is like in professionally if you say reheat you have to reheat it to a pathogen killing temperature whereas if you pasteurize your product and kept it you know properly cold during the thing then you only have to re thermalizer which means you can heat up to any temperature you want so most things are possible to do this way the only thing that you can't really do or things that you can't pass your eyes if you're going to if you're going to keep something in a bag in this when you're doing the shoot at something for a long time it advisable to actually vacuum bag because when you do things like Zippy's or some some oxygen on the inside and if you're doing foods that have or they're prone. Station like me to fetch

Meats to oxidize on reheating call warmed-over flavor if you have a problem thinking of products like that it behooves you to get rid of the oxygen in there so that you don't have those sorts of issues on retherm that you don't have kind of oxidized off dangers just off labor so you probably want to invest in a vacuum bag in a situation like that and you want to make sure if you're going to keep stuff for a long time that you pasteurize a product that you put in because if you don't pass Rising if you're just heating to a point where you know maybe you like the way they taste but you've left bacteria you can be put in a situation where you actually have incubated a certain portion of the bacterium and cause it to be less if possible but not likely the possible do you want to choose things that you can pass right what does that mean don't do fish most fish can't be adequately pasteurized in a vacuum bag because you're going to have to cook it or too high or for too long to get a good past relationships that you can safely pull it and then return it again later almost anything if you pasteurize it properly can be kept in

your fridge for a week and then eating a later with no ill effects now if you commercially there is data that some people have gotten things to grow in vacuum bags at temperatures between 38 Fahrenheit and 40 Fahrenheit in that range and so we actually have to keep you know if you're going to store stuff for a week commercially recent New Yorker no federal yet I could have been a while since I've read the stuff you actually have to keep your products below 40 degrees and it's been awhile but I think the number somewhere like 38 or maybe even 34 I got to look it up if you want to keep it for a full week otherwise you have a shorter window to keep it however in the reality if you do an adequate pasteurization and you cool the stuff down rapidly enough you know you're not going to get not going to get in in in most real-world situations any sort of bacterial growth on the inside of that bag within that when we told me that within the within the Monday to Friday win

cooking cooking on a Saturday or Sunday and you're going to eat it before Monday or Friday just make sure that you had actually pass rides everything that's all I know

not my safety

underground bases in American producer of handcrafted salami and cured meats in Madison Wisconsin that use small farms from Southwest Wisconsin to Source their the animals are raised on pasture for their entire lives by farmers who care about Animal Welfare underground European tradition they also use ingredients from the Upper Midwest to try to create new types of salami experimenting with both ingredients and techniques the salamis are made using Heritage breeds mostly red wattles tamburitza Berkshires and mulefoot try their award-winning cured pork shoulder and goat salami to learn more and purchase products visit shop. Underground food Collective. Org or stop by their butcher shop in Madison Wisconsin

nope you're not it's just us nice right okay

Lucas rights in who we met pretty sure it's the same Lucas that we met at the at the at the first met him at the kickstarter launch party and then at the at the Puffin gun party was a good party yeah I believe I believe it's the same by Spiderbait know his name was the last year the best restaurant in the world like you know it's the it's the Roku family and I've never heard of all I can let you know if you've met me I should be heard me say yeah idea of the best restaurants and most ridiculous thing in the world

I mean they're actually there are more ridiculous things like you know I don't know like the Syrian government didn't do that. Chemical attack that's more ridiculous because what does that mean do you want to go out to you know a 3 Michelin star meal every night it's like but that said it's one of the restaurants in the world one of those you know I would say top three restaurants in the world that I want to go to that I haven't been to

okay hey guys peppers on the line Viper all right well back out to Larkin Road in a piper how you doing in a couple weeks ago and I promised that I would get you on the line to talk about it and it has to do with that you're putting head and so you and worked for awhile research food research technical stuff for CP Kelco the manufacturers of such fine products as gel and and a lot of the high-grade pectins that you buy and they also make what else they make a clear locust bean what do they make clear locust bean gum

so they can make their fake gel and stuff at carrageenan because everyone if you want to do a vegetarian fake gel like one of the classic ones is a mixture of Kappa Carriage Carriage well mostly Kappa carrageenan and locust bean gum to kind of soften to soften the texture of the best was not so brittle but if you want to replace gelatin it has to be fairly clear so regular locust bean gum which is cloudy doesn't make a good gel and replace her so she because we'll have to make this expensive clear locust bean gum that we said that accurate

anywho so I forget who it was but a gentleman called in a couple weeks ago and said he was having problems with the texture of his puddings and he was doing kind of class cornstarch base pudding and I knew that you would be making the piper version of Anastasia vegan face for not using some sort of better putting technology so much and I said I would find out what type of favor putting technology is so go depends on what

I like to do is an Iota heavy blend depending on permanent like 23 Toyota 11105 Locust Point what on the Iota experience with the readily available carrageenan plan because people don't really understand in general is at hydrocolloid like carrageenan carrageenans are seaweeds and all all the carrageenans are from the similar varieties of seaweeds but there's no such thing as pure Kappa or pure Iota or pure Lambda carrageenan carrageenans because of the result of a kind of purifying a natural kind of shotgun mixtures and each manufacturer standardizes

circular carrageenan blend for a particular application so 1iota is not the same as another Iota one Kappa is not the same as another Kappa right they may have a different blend of carrageenans they might have hydrocolloid come in differing app limitation length how long the how long the actual polysaccharides are there in them and so they have different ranges but if you found that like the various iotis if you're available for people to purchase are roughly similar in their Action Hero do you have a particular brand that you like to use that is available to humans

the texture isn't is

free pretty plugged in

when should I even woke up what you say it works fine there iodine in their Kappa alright Terrace prices Iota and cap of work fine okay so give me Just One More Time by Yoda 21% and then .05 well all of those things have to be heated about above like 75 C or something like that right not work well at those temperatures proteins egg sous-vide that you would pre hydrate that stuff and then temperate back in right because locust bean gum is never going to sit and they carrageenans aren't going to sit until it gets down into the probably lie

the 130s fahrenheit 127 hydrite a little bit would air up the structure from setting in his in his Hollandaise sauce but the bleach my puppy uses a more sophisticated but that'll also stop that Lawson Buffy the proteins but if you add them to the proteins first right

yeah I mean it'll it'll do a couple of things that Sugar Drive land on my Patrick college did bad in 50/50 cream and milk


Ethan 285 new put in the blender and add 250 milliliters of liquid and then I add that about cooling down to help

if it helps keep things up and then I just poured into a problem with using hydro College two things to do at hydrocolloid hydrocolloid Swell in Columbus OH if you want them to work with sugar helps a physically separate the particles of a hydrocolloid so that they can be dispersed right after he disperses then he hydrates them by heating right and then hydration and the closest thing to pure water he has in this case which is milk and whatever else is going to do and then afterwards as it's cooling in the blender under high Shear adds things like egg yolk and then allows the product is set now you break down what he is using for the actual hydrocolloid base here he's using

Iota carrageenan Iota carrageenan by the way carrageenan one of the main things about carrageenan that's awesome is it has a synergistic effect with milk meaning I think I'm very very small amount of carrageenan to set up milk and advantage of that is that the smaller the less masking you have a flavor what's cheaper also but if for most people at home that's not really a concern because the amounts are using they're so small but I also there's a lot less flavor masking if you're using so much smaller amount of of hydrocolloid so Iota carrageenan is a kind of rubbery if you use a lot of it kind of rubbery and kind of bouncy textured stuff but you're kind of texture it has an interesting properties unlike most other hydrocolloid it will reform a gel after it has been sheared which is interesting right but it's the soft one Kappa is brittle

more like a gar it's nap when you break it in half so he's doing a mix between Eyota and Kappa to get the kind of texture he wants and then he's adding Locust beans on the locust bean gum is going to do two things it's going to soften the Kappa a bit right and it's also going to stabilize any of the water that's not locked into the carrageenan gel Matrix and prevent that water from weeping out that's what you saying syneresis so when you have locust bean gum that you're adding locust bean gum is preventing the Weeping or the center resource that you often get in gel systems or even a regular Putting System did you consider them a jail system and fact that is why you have a most ice creams to stabilizers it's not that they wanted Jack everything up but they have one that's doing a mild yelling right to prevent crystallization something like carrageenan and then you have something to prevent what's called way off course in a Reese's even at low temperature of liquids out of the major

to the ice cream and that is something like a locust bean gum or guar yes or no

yeah can also use non Baker's percentages

you say it say it again

you talking about when you say well so hyper when Piper because he work for CP Kelco writes a recipe and he says a percent he means that there is there is one gram of hydrocolloid in 99 grams of water and that's 1% per cent and everything is going to be minimal for the sugar you know my date with the sugar it does I don't know I'm sorry okay so what you're saying is what you're saying is they should figure out with their total weight of their bachelor's and then do your hydrocolloid based on that

yeah because you haven't calculated a liquid a liquid basis only you know whenever I write a hydrocolloid recipe I always try to write the numbers based on percent of water and then try to ignore the sugar stuff but it's really it's a complicated thing it's a problem the fact of the matter is if you find a recipe that you like that works as long as you are consistent in applying that recipe you're going to be okay Piper's method which is the actual method to use in the in the actual business news for commercially is better because if you think about the hydrocolloid to liquid base is being the hydrocolloid to Total base and how the sugar interacts with its going to make it easier for you to make a second and third recipe that don't contain sugar right that's it that's that's what you're saying but it makes it more difficult for someone at home to figure out her like a

the recipe in general would you say that's accurate piperno my everyone does it in the real world chest is don't like it they don't do it you know a couple of months ago and really enjoyed it the problem is that this place is in Spain and not exactly a budget meal that's true I hear it's quite expensive what are most impressive things I had there was an oyster with a venison Mayo with an Intense Moisture with venison may have no idea how much flavor into the mail I can make a quite a strong stock of the pressure cookie using multiple extraction typically once you make mayo you do not add much of any additional liquid what happens if either and it would not a very flavorful

vibrate the mail do you think they somehow infused oil directly or they make some Ultra flavor. I'm trying with duck rather than venison as I don't have venison but I guess this is not an issue regarding Lucas okay I have some guesses is how you do it there's there's a couple of ways you can do this one you could the simplest way the kind of most bonehead simple way is to make a fluid gel like a gel and face fluid gel out of the stock Dyno stock already has gelatin in it but you make it a fluid gel right and then you can mix the fluid gel into the mayonnaise without breaking the mayonnaise because you're not actually adding a liquid to it you're adding a second solid that has the same consistency as the mayonnaise itself so it shouldn't dork with the emotion too much right so you can have a mayonnaise and then you're going to fold into the mayonnaise something with the exact same texture as the man is but just a fluid gel okay now that's one now the more High

Tech way to do it okay and if you were going to do if the fluid gel you do a mayonnaise I'd say with Joanne and say you could do an agar fluid gel actually will be easier to achieve in terms of stuff you could go out and buy a store you can do an agar fluid gel will probably be on the order of 0.9% agar agar and gelatin can cause problems sometimes I have to look at it but the date that the real baller way to do it would be to take your venison stock right and then get an enzyme and stars we've got to find a source of this might be my favorite enzymes ball time to use cold Coral lace sew corlase is an enzyme that breaks down gelatin not a problem with like using what's a meat tenderizer like Popeye and one of these other things that you can buy meat tenderizer meat tenderizer enzymes break down proteins but they can often break down proteins into a bitter polypeptides okay and all

I tested it they're not as effective as you would like and totally Breaking All the gelatin down you know as you want for a pre-application about to tell you is enzyme coral a switch breaks down gelatin specifically designed specifically chosen because when it breaks down gelatin it doesn't in a way that does not create any other flavors at all it creates only completely soluble non viscous and tasteless polypeptides so you could take cold trip a couple of drops in a correlation to it and it completely melts the stock down nothing so it has no more body in it right once you destroy the gelatin you can take that stock you could take a 2 L of stock and reduce it down to a hundred and then and still will not set becomes you have to worry about not scorching because as incredibly

hi solids level just from the from the from the the salad but it but not gelatin and so it allows you to get ridiculous reductions on that stuff and then you can incorporate that is a liquid base into mayonnaise without having interfering effects from setting gelatin or any of these other problems or having to add too much it's going to break and that's the way you know when I when I had one of back when I had corlase when I had some of it that's the way we would do like super strong beef flavored drinks we would make brake the or like very very concentrated very concentrated cold consomme is it with liquid by breaking the gelatin and then high-producing it and then that you know you can then probably get a lot of flavor into a mayonnaise without having to resort to something like a fluid do you want to go out and do it tonight I will go out and make a gel and fluid gel with your venison stock your first reduce it make a gel and fluid gel blend it and then

and then folded in that shirt that should work waiting about 3D printers asking us to cover that what do you know about 3D printers in food us meeting us in the greater the greater us the station so meet

3D printing of food is something you know we were number years ago we were dealing with Cornell with the Fab at home which is basically Extrusion in extruder right there on the Rachael Ray program and we had to run over some syringes cuz there's too many assists didn't come through we start some syringes left over so we brought him over but and Piper in the stasha wanted to get into the studio audience did anyone that day when a cruise

she didn't even look to see whether or not you didn't win a cruise so you're upset about cruising you may or may not have a harder you take a question before you if you could take a genetic test to know whether or not you are more likely to get a specific disease or not right when you take it answered yes cuz then you can prevent reducing so you want to know like your possible future genetically but you don't want to know whether or not the cruise is natural issue I'm doing everything I can I didn't do everything I could for the Rachael Ray Show possible Cruise so I don't want to know if I could have one because you don't want to know that like possible personal weakness. So back to 3D printing so

recently I'm printing 3D food and the goal out there is it somehow you know you're going to your table and then your plate and then you going to print your food and then you just going to sit down and someone's going to email you this awesome recipe and it's going to print out like a long time and I've never been a fan of this idea ever I've always thought it was kind of not what I think cooking is about and not what I think food is about I think the idea of 3D printing architectural units is very interesting because it allows you to do things you could not otherwise do more designing Equipment Corporation but food isn't about prototyping or about you know short runs something like a facade for an architectural building that you can create a concrete with a 3D printer

food is about the day-in-day-out creation of something that make you want to eat and in general like the 3D food technology is out there right now is all about extruding paste and then setting that pays into something else and there's only so we know so far you can go with the Extrusion of different types of paste me as hard to get all the different textures you want her to go from flavors you want I mean it's not mean it is someday they could you know scan of state and then reproduce it exactly then don't know maybe but it's just not what I think about when I think of food I like to think about my food being produced I like to think about it growing or being raised I like to think about how it's harvested how it's treated and none of these things as yet are reducible to push the button and printing it out and like not even close I'm not saying it that won't happen someday but it's not even in the round is not even in the not even in the sphere of what's going on right now literally what's going on right

is paste being extruded out of tubes into shapes so it's it's it's like the application brain-dead what you need application do you want your scallop pasta look like Mickey Mouse or space shuttle or do you want like you know your boyfriend's head in hot dog meat if you want your boyfriend's head and hot dog meat either to chop it to pieces with a samurai sword oratoria lovingly munch on it then 3D printing fantastic because it is great at at reconstructing your boyfriend's head out of hot dog meat fantastic at it there's no better way because unless you're going to hire an artist make a sculpture or lunch going to mold your boyfriend's head and then jam hot dog meat into it to make a boyfriend I don't you know and by the way you know what that's assuming that you can stand a skinless wiener because you know I prefer Frankfurter with a real skin on it now I'm saying is making some weird faces now but

working in between gross weight for a friend hot dog head face is out there for everyone to know cuz I'm so sick of you getting these questions about 3D printing like we're going to eat some phenomenal food out of a 3D printer it's paste Starship finally coming out I sent first time in three years I think and nobody has said that it's paste yeah paste here's the thing here's the thing right so we did come up with one thing we liked which was you know what is a novel thing you can do with a 3D printer with paste that is hard otherwise do and it was his idea that

nothing came up with this with a stochastic printing where the toothpaste tubes almost like velcro and you get these kind of monster squiggles that you know are you know that have their good because you can fry them and the texture is different from what would ordinarily get with Masa right I don't really want to use it unless there's some sort of new new texture we can produce our new flavor we can produce paste but maybe that's beyond eggs thing and it was fun non egg egg doll plant-based Bill Gates

if you can find a Whole Foods then we we love at Booker and Dax to have a sample of Beyond eggs to see whether or not it's just a Bill Gates has horrible taste buds for eggs or whether or not they were just overcooked whatever but apparently Styles you can make scrambled eggs out of these and taste like the real legit deal Bill Gates like the standard by which we judge these things that's crazy I say is that why you're on the air

hi I have a sort of a two-part question about live poultry live poultry markets operations I take away by the Sanders it's supposed to be somewhat older than that the normal commercial grade and I was just curious if it's a different approach standard chicken roasting pan technique but I after buying it I salted it then I could read on on the turkey post on cooking issues of the rigor mortis so I think I let it sit for about 24 hours in the fridge after it's been fairly heavily salted and then I use the low temperature roasting it about 154 hours to bring it up to about 1:35 and then finished it in a hot up and after resting the Christmas crisp it up a lot

I expected I didn't know if this was related to the age of the chicken or cooking techniques with some of this recently killed or thoughts here chick old chickens me if it actually is old old chickens are they taste better but they are never going to be as tender as a young chicken never know when you go to other countries that you know as their standard chicken and things like stews what not have older older Birds there's not tender then you sat there like kind of get past it American ideal that chicken is supposed to be tender now that's said when you now we when you before you cook that did you grab the legs and moving around had they had a loosened up and delivered

sorry recently killed and stuff you have in the supermarket but I'm not I'm not you know it didn't feel any different to me I purchased poultry at live market and then let it rest overnight and had it be tough as Nails right on things like Duck but I think a lot with his they can also the breed of duck that I I was getting and you don't mind the main reason I go to live poultry Now isn't for chickens because I'll just get that preserve their suppliers that I liked and trusted have good chicken but I'll go for the turkeys especially before I had the good contacts here at Heritage Foods I would go for the turkeys to get them and I would let them rest a couple of days probably supposedly overnight

I think it's probably a combination I think maybe you could have gone a little bit longer I also don't know and it's an interesting question I don't know the effects of salting during rigor as opposed to salting after rigor I don't know I've no idea like literally I literally have no concept one free that sort of encourages you to do side-by-side experiment wondering has anyone done this sort of comparison with Mike the Headless Chicken and it was a chicken that in the forties I was decapitated but somehow survived

there's a comparative study of up up killing the guy chop they had Authority chop the head off of the chicken let it run around like a chicken with its head cut off and then came back and the sucker was still moving with a long time later and it turns out that he left a certain portion of the brainstem in and he had it would feed my by shoving shoving grain into its you know into it's like open throat hole and soccer live for a while Mike the Headless Chicken so that bass and what what started as an incompetent Slaughter made this farmer like a good chunk of change you can go but you don't disappoint about Mike the Headless Chicken is there's no really really good photos of Mike the Headless Chicken right yeah you notice that it's like there's some there's nothing like no close-ups of where that had used to but every

how exactly was decapitated a little bit higher up in the back and allow the portion of the brainstem that controls kind of the heart regulation and peristalsis in the system to keep going but back to the actual question I don't think that the studies have been done on that has been a long time since I've read up on poultry Slaughter most of the day to out there on most animals shows that priests water stress is bad for me quality but I've read more stuff on obviously in pork it's a huge issue with pig slaughter and cows and about as she done a lot of work with fish on that but the specific reasons why fish taste for it is has better texture

as a result of the specialized killing techniques is because hard rigor in a fish leaves too mushy fillets and bad texter especially for you know Sushi Sashimi applications so I don't know whether I don't know what the effects are of Prince and preserving the ATP reserves of chicken now aside from that you know there's probably all sorts of awful things that get injected into a chicken system if it's freaked out right before it gets smarter is going on in a number of years I have had in my head different tests to be able to do on this but it gets it gets dicey when you're doing Slaughter tests on fish people don't seem to mind as soon as you move to a higher creatures like bird well-received higher creatures like bird or even you know

God forbid into the range of mammals that are eating for food people people people look at any sort of experiments like that is being somehow like horrible when in fact you're just trying to make it more Humane you're just trying to do better you know what I mean they sell it in supermarkets they use to knock them out for a sudden I didn't have time to tell look it up extensively but you and I would definitely different from a live poultry Market where I think they're they're bleeding it out through the through the neck which every every time I've been to live poultry Market what they do is they take especially big birds they tie them by the feet and let them hang upside down Ally flapping freaked out to figure out how much they weigh then they take the mail Put it Down chop his head off and go when I pretty much that's you know that's how I think that's pretty much the D repair method of doing it like and so

they're not doing any I mean at least two places I've been and I didn't see any Electro stunning equipment to put that way you know what I think they probably commercially Electra stunning is the is the way to go on on chicken Slaughter do you see any Electro stunning wait where you were I don't think they do that at the at the live poultry joints do all that much of their business is halal so I don't know the details of Halal Slaughter but I seem to be that that that a lot of their meat was default hello and let you know you had some special and so much of their customer base was Witwer / will people seeking how long me well yeah so if hello I mean I've never done as much as I should research on Halal techniques but if my memory serves kosher Slaughter techniques would dictate that the animal is conscious right to prove it

all intact and everything and then humanely slaughtered with a quick slice to the throat which would mean that there is no stunning involved cuz that would compromise the animal prior to the slaughter my guess would be that yeah there's no form of stunning involve their Korean restaurant Sur other advertising is to do you think that's his his is pre rigor flash that they can actually cuz all the places in Midtown but I was thinking that you know if you have any idea super interesting ride just get they get the chicken rush home and cook it right away

getting out to go in the morning get a chicken ride put in your fridge go in the evening get the chicken rush home and then maybe the day before or two days before and then like took them all three at the same time side by side in the same oven and test them out at least salty changed radically different different times and different for 48 hours if you did twelve-hour intervals let let us know what's going on okay yeah I'll certainly do it I'll let you know thanks very much all right thank you Peter Cook Road in your favorite uses for fish sauce and are there any good substitute for alcohol and eagle

using Android flavoring I like fish sauce in almost everything starts with yourself and yeah I love myself some fish sauce so I mean let's say you have some delicious soups do I see for fish sauce

I don't know yet it's one of those things that I would add too many things like let's say someone doesn't eat meat but they eat fish right I put this on everything I also like anchovies a lot I will throw you into almost almost anything I really like salty fish is like him so much I would recommend you do with fish sauce is there no such thing as one fish sauce like my favorite brand you can get kind of around is a t puros I like that one a lot I think I'll go out and sort yourself some like really interesting fish sauce is like Siri from from pants it's not really fish sauce but go get some color tour anyway for me to leave at 3

right now nothing has alcohol flavor quite like alcohol does but for glazing really you don't have to use alcohol in fact the only real thing you need to have for deglazing liquid is that it can't have so many solids in it that it scorches on the pan you're using it to break the solids off the pan and then reduce so anything it's flavorful it's not going to Scorch during the time that you're blazing you can use an off in your deglazing with with water or you know if you're making a grave you have more opportunity to cook the alcohol out before you add the both of you or liquid and I think that's the reason why people at alcohol first night the glazing not because it needs to be alcoholic knows I don't think they're using the properties of the alcohol to dissolve the stuff on the bottom of the pan if that makes sense cuz I can't pronounce g r a n e l

different ways Inc during Limitless current use canola oil for frying many people use a lot of olive oil isn't that a bad choice for hot applications alright here's the deal olive oil is not bad for hot application however you aren't getting any awesome taste benefit if you keep the olive oil too much we talked about this a while I think maybe like a year ago or six months ago that we get a bunch someone called in and we talk to Maggie about it we get some side-by-side taste test of eggs cooked in an olive oil and I was here that day and we were chasing a member and it turns out that is fine cooking with olive oil is fine but you know all the awesome fruity notes and kind of the bridal characteristics and all the things you love about the taste of all of our wiped out by the cooking's not bad from a technical standpoint so that's the other problem is is that a lot of olive oils will degrade quickly if you're frying

and so they're not a good choice for frying long-term or frying a lot of stuff if you can have a lot of particles sitting around in it because depending on which kind you get what's going on the smoke point in lower faster than some other right now that's where the canola oil is good or bad I used to hate canola oil hated hated it really hated it like in the 90s like I hated it so much because the stuff that you would buy it was cheap just hadn't been properly deodorized and so it's tasted wretched awful but the canola oils that I've tried recently and it took me many years to after I done some initial frying test with many many years that's an early nineties to like 92 Neo 1992-93 it took me many years to go try canola oil in fact for a decade or so I was like hell canola oil crap when I don't care to be the healthiest thing on Earth that can save my life I'm not going to use for frying and then I tried it again

sometime in the 2018 they fix that problem with the average deodorization of the canola oil is fine now canola oil canola is not a plant canola is a contraction I think of Canada and oil because it really developed up there from a variety of rapeseed talk about a crap name for product rapeseed is from the mustard family and so they developed a variety of grape seed that had was particularly low and I don't even know how to pronounce it but like I say, it but it was the stuff that that that they unsaturated fatty acid is in mustard oil Rich if you had large quantities some people say bad for you which is why you can't get the real deal mustard oil here in the US easily unless it's labeled not for consumption even though the studies are crap. LOL it's out there has a very low lesson 2% of that fatty acid in it and so there's nothing out there that shows that that is a health problem there's some studies I couldn't read them because my internet was crapping out on me that the

that certain trans pufas trans proof of polyunsaturated fatty acids trans pufas are formed during the deodorization process that I can't attest you because unfortunately I couldn't get to the data with my internet this morning but I don't have anything out there that says that that I believe that I trust that says the stuff is bad for u i n n e Santa Ana. A lot of people say it's good for you I don't believe that either but I can say that I no longer believe that taste like crap and it's probably good for frying some believe the smoke point is fairly high on the way out cuz I'm going to kick me out of here I forgot last week to give a shout out to Mei Mei in Boston MA food truck I guess I don't know whether the kitchen on food truck thing is is open yet but they came to the talk we gave the whole crew came to talk that we gave with with McGee and then you know I want to spend some time with him afterwards talking to them and you know I shut off the freaking fire alarm and so we had clear

and you guys gave me a set of pastries you said this is the best pastry in all of all of Boston and it got lost in the shuffle the pastry horrible but I did get from those guys are two bottles of liquor from Boston and I really appreciate bringing kind of Boston in a Boston local product for me to taste when I'm in Boston or Cambridge in this case although I didn't bring any of your own stuff next time I go up there I want to try your own stuff but they did bring two things Grant and which is in Boston distilling grandten distilling Angelica liqueur which is Angelica look for made in Boston which we enjoyed we might work that into a cocktail us as good and and this is what I'm going to go out on a bully boy rum which is are Boston Rob and for those of you that don't know

Boston Medford actually specifically you know if you're into the pool Medford thing known back in the day pre-prohibition for being a center of rum distillation since before the American Revolution fact Paul Revere famously as he's riding down the road trying to warn me that the British were taken from him like you know like when he was in I think Lexington got his horse taken from him and ended up sitting the rest of the night out and it was another dude that they didn't get caught escape with his horse they kept on riding out the real freaking Hero of the Day Paul Revere you know got caught and they write the poem about Paul Revere because it's all the props on the way out to get captured by the British because he got he going to get some

that takes famously takes us will of Medford which was supposedly pretty good and anyway about this in Wayne Curtis's book on rum and they re-enact that to this day people will ride fake ride past there and I'll take a swig of rum but no one from Medford and I'm hoping that the Medford ride people are now using the bully boy rum we enjoy it now one last thing about Medford and Boston drum the Boston rum with produced from molasses because guess what they can't grow in Fosston you guess it's sugar can to can't grow it take the Molasses they would ship it up there and so there are lots of stock piles of molasses in Boston prior to Prohibition and just prior to Prohibition one of my favorite history crazy facts happened the great Molasses Flood in the North End of Boston in 1919 just prior to Prohibition even though it was actually for rum that was for industrial alcohol so in 1919 a giant tank like imagine you know those those giant tanks of fuel that you see in Elizabeth New Jersey as you're driving down the turnpike those big kind of fee

tax dodging talk about Manchester with molasses all of a sudden people on the street and there's like a like an elevated train is courses is all this 1919 the here and all the sudden a 15 foot high wall of molasses running 35 miles an hour right exerting a pressure according to one thing I read of two tons per square foot right and just snacks into you knock down like railroad cars like horses just got glasses and a bunch of people died and you get Smackdown tackled by molasses and then you drown in molasses in Boston and the and the story was that for decades even to the seventies when I was a kid with my first read about it and Smithsonian Magazine remember this day reading about it because one of my great-aunts from Medford whether you accept my stepfather had these like three made not to never got married no boil eggs so they remembered it they remembered it and

into the seventies the streets of Boston when it got hot out still smell like molasses in the area where the blood was at Alicia's thanks for listening to this program on Heritage Radio Network. Org you can find all of our archive programs on our website or as podcasts in the iTunes Store by searching Heritage Radio Network you can like us on Facebook and follow us on Twitter at Heritage underscore radio you can email us questions at any time at info at Heritage Radio Network. Org heritage