Cooking Issues Transcript

Episode 132: Testing Harold McGee

today's program it's been brought to you by underground meats and American producer of handcrafted salami and cured meats in Madison Wisconsin for more information visit shop. Underground food Collective. Org or stop by their butcher shop in Madison Wisconsin you were listening to Heritage Radio Network broadcasting live from Bushwick Brooklyn if you like this program cuz it Heritage Radio Network. Org for thousands more

Amber Lopez with Jack Joan Eddie and I don't know I don't know

we hope to rejoin soon correct Natasha with you know one of our favorite all-time people are old Magee Great Master Blaster of science as it relates to making things delicious he is actually on route now from his hotel in Manhattan to the Heritage Radio Network Studios here in Brooklyn time to travel from Manhattan because they're always working on the freaking Bridge everyone takes the bridge and every girl is working on if you guys notice at Subway what's that sucks

oh I guess I don't understand people who don't go to Manhattan mean like you know we're traveling out here and there in greater greater Brooklyn question before he shows up anything cool happening this out of nothing I have one little message I was at Bonnaroo with Heritage Radio in Roberta's and it was all crazy and everything and we got a little message from a friend that I'm going to play a Jeremiah bullfrog here hanging out with Heritage Radio

y'all know the deal I love myself some Jeremiah bullfrog he's big he's the king of the Miami food trucks if I'm not mistaken gastropod teach at the French Culinary Institute hello everyone I have two questions if you don't mind but I forsake apologize because I'm still catching up on the backlog of cooking issue so I apologize if you cover these topics already please do not feel obliged to listen to our back catalogue I realize she said I realize Base website for moped that's the Museum of food and drink is updated and looking good once in awhile I hope that more has developed I would be so excited if it happened as I live in Brooklyn love cooking and museums I do work in the nonprofit sector so I understand it takes a tremendous amount of work to get them going I'm down to help in any way possible I sent an email to them with an offer.

whatever it takes to get those doors open the southern food and beverage Museum so much when I was in New Orleans and was when I was in New Orleans it's about time New York has a spot of their own I'm sure working alongside the New York Historical Site she was a recently had a beer exhibit well good news too good news is one Kate we are going to have a Kickstarter laundry when does

Saturday Kickstarter for the Museum of food and drink so it's going to be a lot happening and a lot to look at in a lot to look for so please everyone look out we're going to put it on Twitter glass but the Museum of food and drink Kickstarter on the gun is going to be up it within a week I'm told by Natasha she knows all these sorts of things and the second piece of good news I have for you is that

iPhone first time 718-497-2128 that's 718-497-2128 graduation okay start up Kate also said I just listen to the cooking issues episode that was recorded right after Valentine's Day and I can't help myself but let Jack know that I would have inquired about a potential Valentine's Day he sounds sweet funny and interesting I'm flattered I'm also taking the show until I can say this he he may be able to be over maybe there's no pretending that they maybe won't last I don't know I don't know

how you doing I'm doing well except for having taking the red-eye and and had problems with a hotel reservation went to the second place in a reservation up in the air and this is probably the only chance that you have I've never he's never been tripped up and he's never gotten angry at anyone so here is your here is your chance to maybe try either because he we have with us at tired Harold McGee but thanks so much thanks so much for coming on the show so I have some questions. Here's one that you might want to weigh in Casey rights in please please address factors that contribute to food around me now that's very broad so I'm not going to ask you to do that cuz that you're that's like a topic of a whole book that you're probably working on now but i e g how can the aroma of almond chicken soup the enhanced and fill the room and you've done some work with this in classes with the simply with fans right

yeah a bunch of different ways that's certainly one of them as much as possible and it turns out that if you have room to do it if the suit could use a little salt salt will actually help Drive Aroma out of a food and into the air because it makes the food more polar more electrically charged and the Romans don't like that so they they get out into the air where they're more comfortable saturation point or can you take a small portion of a suit put in a wide vessel on the salt out of it I've never tried that experiment worth trying

I'll see whether or not you can really amp up the well in frying pan why not try it I mean put the heat on the evaporator I guess that's true about that but you might get bonding and stuff with the oils right now Max my Surface area that's right into your nose in the air first have done things like put things in vaporizer or you could use ultrasonic humidifiers actually don't boil things they create the tiny kind of Miss droplets that can carry have your molecules with him so you could use an ultrasonic humidifier but a chicken almond soup I think that's going to be kind of a nightmare

send for that to work another thing you can do not fill a room but the Japanese are very following to have their soups of covering their soups with a bowl on the way to the table with an inverted like a smaller bowl and it has the effect of concentrating to headspace directly above the soup so then the person grabs the lid lifted and the soup walks up into their nose and they get the full of Rome of and that's how the Japanese get away with having relatively under flavored broth and you don't get if you can smell it coming then your nose is already beginning to get adapted to it right it's it knows what's coming it's just going to say okay yeah that's that's chicken almond to but if you presented with no

Fanfare at you just open it up and there it is powerfully it's a much more intense experience that I hadn't thought of and the reason why we should have her on the be here all the time all the time yeah in fact you know what's interesting point modern cooking when I say modern modern American Home Cooking is all about kind of integrating the kitchen with with the dining experience in part of that is because people who wouldn't ordinarily 80 or a hundred years ago be cooking you know people were actually can running the house now take pride in in in what they're cooking so they want to be integrated with their gas and how did I become part of this no Aroma of the kitchen is considered a positive thing where as you know a hundred years ago it would be you be horrified to smell what's going on in the kitchen in your house horrific a sign of Vino property and discuss do you know what I mean and although I definitely fall in the more interesting

presentation if they didn't smell it until the moment they were good at one kind of waskey welcoming Aroma but that's not something the trucks are going to serve at the dinner by the way of the heavy metal version of cooking issues rights and with a rib problem your idol Harold McGee is here you ever hear his song he sang to you personal performance artist still Wicked excited to hear my song being used in public at the Heritage Radio Airways and still waiting to hear more about this searzall attachment progress is trying to figure out like my partner's a little worried about safety and people burning themselves really the main action somewhere that's or dealing with right size

ribs boneless the first year the specifics 40 pounds of ribs at 57 degrees Celsius is 135 Fahrenheit for U farenhajt heads out there I cook them for 60 hours in the bag contents were seared unsalted meet reduce red wine Ramirez followers reduce chicken stock cold in the walking for a few days all items bag at room temperature in vacuum-sealed and play some to separate created fast and cover for 60 hours left to run for the weekend and attended one batch two batch came out Greek no sign of bacterial growth or off smell at 8 about 6 oz and I'm feeling fine as you should eat all the bags in the second bathroom puffed to mirror explosion I open one bag it smelled like death and gym socks if you could come up pretty close to what my grease trap smells like besides a few hundred dollars worth of meat I threw away the only thing I can take away from message to turn into a learning experience myself and my team so I need help finding out what happened I know it's hard to figure out if both password at constant temperature since I left him unattended the both bags were plugged into the same outlet and running when I return

there's no sign of anything because they can turn off and they can turn back on again like a plug-in getting kicked up by the way in the future never plug to circulators into the same Outlet it's possible to still continue running and then it's also quite possible that you blow a circuit like very possible you blow a circuit because even a 20 amp circuit like it mean they're not running to the same they're not running full-bore all the time but I have more than one more than three occasions and has even even on a 22 it cost way too much age on it being the culprit do not think that was the culprit I kept my vac bags very close to my baking area my kitchen where I use natural starters this may cause a reaction from a reason for microbes to find their way into the bag I do not think so one circular maybe off calibration this is possible you should calibrate your circle ice Waters the very first batch of the new style circulators had an issue where it was very easy to set the temperature offset incorrectly and have prom

so I could be a possibility but it's fairly unlikely because red wine causing some pickling fermentation not the culprit cross-contamination also not that I've heard the temperature is a good safety step I'll try that next time help me help me please love Joel you have a couple of problems once you put raw mirepoix in the bathroom mirror fog has a lot of air in it and sell it unless you suck for a super long amount of time there's probably a lot of residual are left in the mirror plot as he started cooking it started heating the air migrated out of the mirepoix creating a air gap Gap in your back you probably had a further complication at the bags were very tightly packed together that's a lot of meat to be putting into to circulators at the same time right so if they're packed tightly together and then you get any are you have to Major insulating effects in your bag as we are puffs up your also taking up more space and it's more difficult for the water to get into the center of the bags

as that happens if your bags don't get up to bacteria killing temperature within a couple of hours you're going to get lactic acid bacteria growing in the bag the lactic acid bacteria is going to create some awful disgusting funky smells and cause the back to blow and puff right and then subsequent cooking will actually probably kill those bacteria over a long. Of time cuz they probably won't survive at those high temperatures however wait to meet already ruined in the bags already packed so you a couple of things you can do you one good way to deal with over cramps bags is to like you say put them in the simmering water for a minute or two to kill all the bacteria on the outside starts cooking looks like we have a caller info Patrick Patrick going crazy with you

here is a Padgett art our founder

so you can get them in very hot water like 85c simmering water to kill the bacteria on the outside you can start the cooking in a Combi oven and then throw them into finish and just don't overcrowd him in general if you cook the mirror pause the the air cells will get ruptured as the vegetable shrink down you also get less puffing from the air and you can suck a hard vacuum Don't Be Afraid by the way to Salt your ribs before you put them in the bag because everything for for a long time and you don't want a fresh steak steak texture on them anyhow and also over reduce your stock right here on the game

and today's brake song is the Hustle by Alan wilkis and you are listening to cooking issues on Heritage Radio Network. Org

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honey water to stop fruit from browning I thought it was interesting alternative to ascorbic acid which is Vitamin C different from citric acid member that people are always like I bought that I bought the citric acid and it didn't work I'm like no vitamin C ascorbic acid citric acid will prevent Browning somewhat by lowering the pH but not nearly as much as actual antioxidant the video in question is by Rebecca Marsters on America's Test Kitchen and it's available even if you don't pay so you can go look at it and what she does is she so. Slices of an apple in why don't know if she uses that I remember about that the paper and paper say about 10% honey Solutions

what's the did honey would do this but a couple of things one of the reasons I think we haven't heard more about honey is that the experiment suggested that there were peptides pieces of proteins that were responsible for this and the people who wrote the paper in 1990 saying that honey would inhibit Browning said they were going to follow up on that and find out which peptides were responsible and it's been radio Silence from them ever since so it never got followed up on another where was a paper in mm that did follow up on the honey but said that they got really variable result depending on which honey they used somewhere good somewhere not so good so I think my guess is if you actually did a in ascorbic acid honey side-by-side probably ascorbic acid would be more reliable right well have a free which one it was I read another paper on the various different Miss Corbett gas is also interesting because it can actually reverse some of the some of the browning after it's already occurred but they said also some of the

really conflicting information just to be clear though the paper 1990 specified clover honey right so like you think hard to say good thing for somebody to follow up on my way honey is always described you describe this whole allergen honey paleo or no show up on a place and you're going to have a seasonal allergies and some honey from that place and that they wiped out your seasonal allergies I wish I'd known that two weeks ago incredible phone for me a gin cocktails because the extra proteins so we use that in conjunction with

are some of our milk wash drinks at the at the rest at the bar to get really dense head the phone used to keeping the temperature up in the winter by being close to each other and buzzing and also how they kill how they kill the giant the giant hornets so you know by climbing onto them and shaking so hard that they heat them up and kill them so babies don't have the same problem with overcrowding that we do although they will swarm out of their colony if they're too crowded they'll swarm but yes so if you talk to Natural honey producers as I have done my point is is a feeling of sugar water to tide them over on the winter that's what the honey producers

the water but not up I haven't been up on the colony collapse papers in for about probably 5 years or something like that but another used to think that overcrowding and to closer proximity of commercial highest was part of the spread of colony collapse you know anything about my lots of different things has mites in a virus and crowding and pesticides and all that kind of thing but one of them is the fact that it's big become more and more common to feed bees on either sugar water or high fructose corn syrup and and what they found is that honey actually has lots of stuff in it that's good for bee elf and if you deprive them of that

I just give up sugar water or high fructose corn syrup they're going to get sick so they the ideas give them enough honey to feed themselves and maybe things will get better and then nothing nothing no problems with that heavy do you know I just read this if I don't know if it's true certain Linden flowers are irresistible but to be for toxic to them know how to research that might be crap but I read it somewhere but it could be crap because many things that I read our there's one that you might want to truck timing on I have a good recommendations for where to go look at it but Joe Blow which is like kind of the best all you other joblo 67 what's a good what's it called sweet Twitter Twitter name quickie why does OJ taste so horrible after I brush my teeth well I need go to www. Brightside with a Y as in small like as in bits and bites bite-size science.com the American Chemical Society in a regular

speaker where there are things a web series of short videos on science that people might find it interesting did one on this and they say that it's a sodium lauryl sulfate in toothpaste that that egg surprises sweetness and be washes off the phospholipid so it's pressing sweetness and enhances your ability to taste bitter give her anything on that buy commercial commercial tasting thing where people who have to brush our teeth in the morning because that's what we do and they show up to work and need to taste and they actually cancel the effect of the toothpaste and get them ready for tasting by pounding several glasses of OJ so there are some studies on that but I recommend you Joe Blow to buy signs.com website I'm always hypersensitive about how I eat you know cuz I eat out a lot for my work and my wife's in the food world to so I was wondering about the effects of that on my health and I read Michael pollan's peace.

I was wondering I mean that should people were worried about such things have them important is DNA in all of that year is your poop as important stuff that you like in that microbia to DNA in terms of importance for its effects on human health and I was wondering is that true I mean is was that a real Seminole piece I'm going to go ahead and process when the herald in fact you read more about that in in scientific journals these days as well and that's I think we got the lead for this my feeling is that we're just beginning to understand how important the gut microbes are and what to do

give them and at the moment what we kind of know is that people in different states of Health have very different communities down there but whether it's possible to change them quickly your overtime By changes in diet or weather changing them more drastically by taking little pills with lots and lots of them is a good idea we we have no clue I think we're Square still figuring that out so to say that it's as you can for all intensive antibiotic regimes or like super sickness plus antibiotic regimes I mean I've got a situation that I was lactose intolerant for a week and a half because I had no enzymes left in my body

but fact matter is you could re-establish those colonies if I were to supply enough radiation to you to destroy your DNA very difficult to concentrate right so let's leave DNA at the top of the heat but maybe microbes are right up there. Just just underneath critical from an everyday standpoint right you know we've got to see how you doing how you doing I'm doing good looking for some advice on the addition of mascarpone to cheesecake

I was working the three pounds of cream cheese 5 lb of mascarpone and anywhere from two to three eggs per pound of cheese sometimes when I cut through it and cornstarch flour Edition and sous-vide time and temp

how do you say sous-vide mean like you're not in a cvap or something like that I've never put a cheesecake in a bag cuz I'm sure you could no reason why.

Large Chick-fil-A in 34 small bags and after like two and a half hours pull it out and I put into the mole well I would imagine mascarpone has a higher water content and the water in it is less bound than it would be in cream cheese when you think so Harold and so I would guess that it would be a lot looser under all conditions I mean can you hang mascarpone desserts from it up a little bit

I probably could but I don't know is know how much you'd be left with you know would that be an economical thing to do if it eats that's what I was thinking Tapia

yammy I wouldn't use mean if you got to go to Malto dextrin I mean maltodextrin doesn't Supply a lot of thickening power you might want to go to an actual starch you know what I mean something that's has a little more sickening power to it as a multiple multiple dextrin more of a bulking agent so that when you dry something back out again you're going to have more bulk I mean I think that the addition of a starch to it to thicken it up maybe me and you can up your egg quality a little bit which I think what they do in the Italian cheese cakes that are ricotta base right now they called the egg content in those things and then go throw it has been a long time do you know Russia on what to do for that I don't I don't but I mean like the classic Italian style cheesecakes are using a much looser a cheese without all that together using ricotta base typically things which are going to be they have a granny or Texture I happen to love them I happen to love those are the styles of Cheesecake but I don't make them myself but they're typically much rain here and I would imagine they're bound with a higher a proportion really taste like

turn up your eggs on moved to perhaps a starch one that has a good thickening power maybe one that doesn't require a complete boil to activate so maybe something like potato that has a lot of swelling but then he's not going to hold as much benchley if I break but I would definitely have it starts to it but you think of anything where you're just not going to know for sure without trying it

yeah I've done a few test runs and cornstarch and AP flour I'll just looking for any others start to testing as well you could use a picture to get around the problem of the temperature if you're doing is suvi cuz you might not be functional eyes and start you might want to use a pre agglomerated I mean in the clown rated pre-cooked starch like not Ultra text Ultra sperse or something like that cuz I wonder is still going to have all of the lights in my have a more of a flowery note to it cuz it's flower where is the ultra sperse is going to be more neutral and you can pay I think you can pick up Ultra sperse from the guys at monitors pantry...

I wish what's the percentage of ultra stars on how much water you need to bind right because it's the free water that's available in the maskar pound but I mean I wouldn't guess that you probably need to add more than a percent or two right I mean it depends on how much you need to bind up

also just cheat you can just cheat and set the stuff at the jail means cheat you know what I mean like I don't know any sort of jail haven't setup you have you can do it you can do it you can do like an Iota carrageenan aura or a Kappa that will melt into anything you can pipe it while it's hot it'll set into a gel and you're done very light gel you know what I mean especially cuz there dairy in there you could use a very small percentage of carrageenan and have it set up pretty nicely I probably try one or the other and see how they were working I see what the texture is a difference is but might try that

okay I appreciate you all have a good day in from a Brian regarding my start at you like you're the Italian fruit FaceTiming me to I haven't had it in a long long time no one else in my family likes my wife but my kids are not big on you like that stuff says no man's land just floating around meant to be in all that you don't need all the gel you just eat the fruit the whole damn thing hope you guys and gals are staying cool we are not it is hot as hell not in the studio but it's nasty out okay after some research I must start at does not contain mustard powder

mustard essential oil which they call sonapa in Italy to not be how do you pronounce at Aurora Show Low from Studio kitchen. Blah blah Studio kitchen blog does use a rotovap to expect it from mustard oil do you have a source of this product or a substitute what does cesare or Mark say about this I didn't have a chance to speak to them do you speak to Mike about this thank the job

essential oil is available on the internet on eBay from navel come the company is Nev out and I V A L pure essential mustard oil it's available on eBay and also from essential depot.com in Florida but the stuff expensive say that there's two things if you go to Laika an Indian rest Indian Mart like you know like kalustyans here in the city or dual specialty shop in city and you can buy stuff called mustard oil press mustard oil and that's tough it can be pungent or cannot be punch it's all labeled as not for human consumption because of you know what contains was it gets something so I have it here are everything but we haven't gotten around

right yeah I mean cultures have been using it for thousands of years internally and hasn't seemed to be a problem but we're worried about it but he purchased it mustard oil in Indian stores or I guess Korean music free as well it's not that strong it is not I mean it's got some sort of mustard thing to it but I once had a pure vial of the mustard essential oil that was given to me by a Japanese Jen and Nat stuff is ridiculous like two drops in like it in in like your mashed potatoes and they're like completely mustard it up you know what I mean it's like it's like crazy because it's distilled but not distilled like Rhoda that start with a bunch of water left over like distilled the oil floats after the top you take that supernatant top of us. And that's your mustard essential oil and it's almost as if it's some

like I don't know I still have cyanide some sort of aliens phobia sulfur derived thingamajigs quite well probably the same way that horseradish does wish this feels like a demon but yeah I would recommend it is just really expensive but it goes a long way by it I would buy it I'm thinking now buying I don't know whether this one's any good if you ever bought it on Amazon the best you're going to get to look for a while is mustard oil like press mustard oil not mustard essential oil that's not the same you have to like dump a whole boatload of that into your what's your favorite kind of mostarda you like them all

I think actually the pair that you know that the grit goes really nicely with the with the heat buildings is the best mustard ever made really is James Beard's assistant Cummins is the best Mayo why would you ever make a better than almond unless it's really better than Heinz if it's just all so servine anyone is listen to the backlog your nose at Anastasia doesn't care about different brands of ketchup which is one of the my main gripe with her is that she doesn't see that there is possibly a difference between different brands of ketchup and I haven't tried the new fancy stuff yet from Portland that fancy ketchup however let's just be clear on that that

what what European Heinz Ketchup it's delicious but there's somebody in San Francisco makes a nice 1-2 June tailor good for Heinz but it's delicious is it catch up in like the 1820 sense of mustard. Mustard on mushroom based places showing I don't care that much about the nuances of different BBQ sauces

I don't I mean I see that there are differences but to me they're all fundamentally ketchup molasses and and like vinegar and sugar and stuff right might agree with you about the ground up nuts in the barbecue sausages pretty good ground up nuts really good actually yeah pretty good kind of nuts probably know you probably subbed out for northerners new home had just recently open k-paul's and in Louisiana and he was still famous for sticking really red hot peppers into into liquor and calling them Cajun martinis and fact before everyone had no black in this that and everything he came out with a cookbook early on that I think was

influential so I have to admit but you know whatever we've watched the old Julia Child episode when she goes on David Letterman and they don't have equipment that works and so she has to say she was going to make a hamburger and melt the cheese with torch which is Sears all gray. By the way instead has to make beef tartare and David Letterman is being vicious her the whole time you seen this man said she was probably what in her seventies late 70s and he's just like ripping her up and down and she completely as a good sport and it's every bit as quick as I let him in and she's like a kind of wish that I had dinner with her once

this was when she was in her eighties and afterwards help just totally inadequate because she had read you know 10 books I hadn't read and seen 10 movies that I hadn't seen and I just couldn't keep up choose an amazing woman writes in about Orangevale if you like aren't you I'm not a big limoncello fan do you like Michelle or aren't you are shallow baby orange base variant of it every once in awhile episode where it's like a little bit sometimes for my tastes are in oranges or something and I don't know I haven't had it over there they have only been to the north of Italy they don't play that game

are also known as calamansi which is sold mostly green but is in fact orange went right back okay I've made some calamondin orange Jell-O from my yard I soak the pills out of food have almost no piss in 190 proof Everclear for 7 days then mix with equal parts one to one simple syrup sweet as some sweet there's a pretty good but anyway what's going on here is this excess Citrus oil what can I do to prevent this from happening on my next batch my tree produces three times a year I want to make enough to give as gifts but the ring around a mason jar make the end product less appealing because you can absorb alcohol

thanks for all the sweetness the density of the liquid state yeah that's a good I see again I hadn't thought of that hearing things I thought I don't go and try to buy brominated vegetable oil which is what everyone used to use back in the day to keep Citrus oils and suspension and things like sodas see what happens is they add bromine to vegetable oil it discreet exceedingly heavy it gets in close contact with the Citrus oil and the average soda you no work they don't use it anymore much they use something that you also can't buy which is as sucrose acetate isobutyrate saib which is a Supra Lester derivative but also probably can't buy that here's what I suggest you do either reduce the sweetness try that also put it it get one of those old school

like a who makes Lipton sun tea think one of those giant ice tea coolers that has a spigot at the bottom put your product into it your entire batch let it sit for a week and a half or more after you deleted it the ring will form around the top then drain it from the bottom now I'm just thinking of mechanics and what to get around it so that's that's very in lies the difference now we have a question in from will about sours whiskey sours and a zucchini where to Dave and Sasha Jack Joe and the new guy I like mine with egg whites and I make designs on the phone with various Bitters and eye dropper bottles and a chopstick I use simple syrup that has Gum arabic for a better mouth feeling a strong Rye for a better flavor what I want to do is premix in Duluth this hour

and then running a blender with dry ice to chill for service and top of an egg white foam decorate and serve I've got to wish that goes into a power drill for stick mixer like a fax egg white SantaCon the American nationality cetera how can I get a good phone without IRS I have not yet Incorporated gelatin but my efforts and I was holding her phone is too stiff to decorate wall with Bitters and tends to break when added to the shower I see many people online to get in the cocktail foam should be its own fully realize beverage drink that's true in normal sours the phone with essentially fully flavored by the drink Modified by the approximately half teaspoon of various pictures I decorate with you have any suggestions on directions to take the flavors for this phone I'm looking for directions to take my generally very tasty experimentation let's hit that before we go on to the next thing 1 be very careful blending dry ice into something with a blender because if you serve any chunks of dry ice is someone if they ingest that can be extremely detrimental that's 1/2 when you blend dry ice into a product you will get a very light

Petty on carbonation in there and you have to make sure that that's not going to hurt the flavor of your whiskey sour that's too so I in general I am somewhat loath to chill with dry ice and blenderz although I've seen plenty of people do it but I just makes me very nervous and I'm not a what are your thoughts on that I have no experience and I take your point you say a normal cocktail okay so normal cocktail with egg white in it the sticking effect of the egg white is Manifest most visually buy a foam on the surface however the body of the entire drink is changed by the protein Edition

so you're not going to have the same drink by blending with dry what you mean where you're going to be doing is making a slushie and then putting the foam on top of delicious by the way I can just get flushed out because but but drinks are slushy are so freaking cold they're actually somewhat painful whiskey flavored drinks actually tastes best when they're not so cold at their slush doubt in my experience right you want to just when they start going clear after you chilling liquid nitrogen is when I start being good again otherwise like they don't end up being balanced than anything too much more than slushie in it is really painful it so cold in terms of foam to put on the top you know

necklace lf50 makes a nice phone but it's still pretty dense have to think more about this you might they might end up being shorter for you just to just to shake like pre-planned some egg whites and just shake understand what you're trying to do something different here and what do you think I mean I know that should be my kind of of a thing I mean you could use I aside and then do like a really like a like a lighter a lighter phone but I mean the egg white Foams are also somewhat fugitive which is nice and most of the phones that are made aren't there either have a very large bubble size or they're not so fugitive but TriMet the Cell at 50 or versawhip under a percent they make a really nice phone that's quite stable and you can probably make a slushie and then stripped like literally spatula the phone man strike it off the top and then draw design it in using recently

he's been making some phones recently for cocktails

could do that to whipped egg whites or egg white powder hydrated with some flavors and then whip it now it alcohol though but like whip it and then and then strike it off the top and Robert both smoke and flavor is out of this world being flat pack and treatment might help here I'm cooling eye with a raging grill a cookie with a raging Grill in the polls right up under the food it's charged my satisfaction about two minutes if that helps thanks very much. Work looking forward to the mofad puffer

I don't think they need to firm it right I think it's more of a water problem right that's what the militias I would I would party hydrate the stuff what do you think of but put them in ice water so that when they go on to the grill they're really cold and so the inside will just take that much longer to eat out I'll see you think he wants to keep it then he has too much freaking water in it in my opinion shoes with it if there's no way to get the water out of the inside right to you you have two choices either try to keep it raw on the inside or try to get rid of the water before hand

won't change the fact that moisture is going to migrate from the inside of zucchini to the outside of the Keeney ruin your crust

except that's not what he's saying right he's saying that the crust is fine it's just the insides a little mushy so

I think maybe the first thing I would cry because it's very simple and just put put the zucchini and ice water for half an hour before they go on the grill see if that takes care of it if it doesn't then take more drastic actions but if it's just the matter of preventing the inside from getting quite so hot that should take care of it man Drayson do the paper towels microwave thing or or I don't know how how exactly he's presenting them but you know you could also come in two slices and salt them a damn rights and here's a good one for you we just want a damn rights and my question is for Dave and for Harold what do you make of the recipe for fermented juice and mushrooms and oats in the Fab

look up book you haven't seen it which I have not the basic idea is steam salted mushrooms and grain after cooling combined with sourdough a sourdough starter overnight see you in a jar for 6 months when you open it up if you have a fleeting peaches at the cookbook Pro right there the fresh juice doesn't last long so Nielsen Magnus Nilsson recommends allowing it to turn to vinegar or pasteurizing it describes a pasteurize project being like soy sauce he also stresses that anyone should not eat it until it's been analyzed by a lab to determine whether or not as edible the procedure is somewhat similar to mix yeast bacteria fermentation to the Chinese yeast ball that Nicki likes here you are ready to talk about it but I've never read such a long sourdough fermentation or one that isn't cooked afterwards it's strange just what is happening and what you're paying on a food safety thanks for the thought I looked into sandor Katz has a book I think I'm going to let you just take this for a minute but the sourdough thing is just a kick-start the fermentation to get the pH low enough so that botulism doesn't grow first right cuz that's what the deal is and after that's when it's going to take over and whatever it wants to do part of it

pandas why do you have to seal it I mean because that would remove the issue about botulism bacteria anyway for magic mushrooms that I could get where they were all pushed under the water to encourage anaerobic stuff after the pH is dropped Right Stuff sauerkraut kimchi style right then why'd you have to seal it I do it like a like a sauerkraut fermentation where you can kind of check on it see how it's going whether you've kept everything

submerged or not that kind of thing also I don't think I would ever myself want to make a dish that I had to have a lab check before I could either believe me like you check the pH before you start the fermentation then it should be everything should be copacetic if it's acid enough you won't have botulism

yeah acid men salt imagine there salt in there as well how much shrooms are dangerous to to keep for long periods of time in the absence of oxygen that's the classic thing to kill yourself with poorly can non certified Mushroom in about chica Gmail and bottarga hate questions for you Dave and a cookie if you screw a year-and-a-half ago about spinal cord destruction which is very special education swim around a lot and when you kill them you can increase the quality of their flesh by shoving a needle through the spinal cord to disrupt it in the theory being that you would buy by destroying the spinal cord

you're presenting any sort of electrical messages from going to the muscles that happen regardless whether the brain is still present therefore increasing the amount of ATP that remains in the muscles because not being used to respond to these are electrical signals and it therefore takes longer to go into rigor mortis and when it goes into a less strong rigor mortis when it comes out the flesh is firmer and better that's in a nutshell the theory was going on for us and I always made sure that people don't do it I'm blue fishing it's because I don't think in Japan they eat my food I wrote about destruction test on Blue Fish in Alabama I'm heading back at one she only use ice salt water or seawater as opposed to Fresh I was using fresh water from the rinsing host the end of the pier and there's also we're clearly still far superior to non-gmail spinal cord

any thoughts on this I will be course trying it but I may not have the capability to side by side salt versus fresh any other suggestions for test that I can run while I'm down here will the reason for salty sow at the heart keeps pumping and that you're not putting it in the shop right away so that you can keep that going and also you want to keep it relatively isotonic with the fish the salt water is obviously the best call but I don't really know what the effect will be me and you have no idea and I don't have any suggestions right now for other testing to run but please just let us know what all your tests are because if that's fascinating me and I want to know how good blue fish is after it comes out to keep but if you were to do spinal cord destruction but don't delay it now so the oils are exposed to the oxygen I couldn't become a fish to keep longer if you always salted that your bro typically from mullet and what's the other one the one that was the other one in make the car go

cast netting for mullet I'm quite interested in making my own petard really expensive here really freaking expensive here

not sure if this is the right season but had a couple questions anyway are there seems to be a fair number of recipes techniques out there in this scene perhaps the best soap there overnight and salt water solution 10 grams of salt for 1 liter of water by the way it's soaking is there just a leech out the blood and I sort of other strong flavors that are there I don't think it's actually Akira Step Down Transformer 1% of that's roughly isotonic right it's just a not ruin it not blow the eggs up at sope stuff and get it out you don't want to soak it in pure water because then you might blow the eggs up remover solution and pat dry and paper towels all good we have fresh paper towel and try to liberate sprinkle of salt okay play throw on top and come with more so so far so good places in the fridge replace a paper towels daily add more salt right to the Cure is taking place at low temperature after three or four days a rosewill firmed up uses fewer to poke a hole and time with butcher's twine along Loop hang the road a cool place to drive for 10.

working days or longer if desired other better ways I would put them I would put them in a curing chamber out of course I won't have it in Alabama also wonder if cool dry place would cause a case hardening my thoughts assault a few days in the fridge and put them on a rack or hang them outside in the sun to drive to dry them the error be humid and hot and most likely Breezy with enough salt I'm not that worried about contamination but should I be then I could take them home and put it on my curing chamber for long hair drying eventually backpacking for storage in the fridge I would come in wax that's the traditional way and not a backpack that although backpack into work but Tiffany wax is a Christmas and pretty cool I got a treat for you it's not Alabama to Florida but if you go to the Department of Food Science and human nutrition or simply type this into your browser Stoller drawing of seafood products colon mullet roe they did a bunch of experiments literally on the open air drying of mullet road to make bottarga in the 70s in Florida which is fairly similar Alabama you can look at it and your main problem is actually not

any case hardening they do mention that I think in the paper your main problem is going to be that unless it's fairly covered you said you needed the temperature of the mullet roe needs to go above atmospheric temperature gets humid as hell as soon as it goes above atmospheric temperature which it will start giving water off so it doesn't matter how humid it is as long as it got so freaking hot by the way they use the word that I hadn't I didn't know insolation meaning how much sun had not insulation insolation which is awesome but they were testing that had like a plastic covering my Greenhouse at let the sun hit it but had screens all around it so Eric and walk through 150 Fahrenheit that stuff that up to hot enough to cook your huevos but anyway so go read that paper and that should give you some good suggestions now before they ripped my microphone away from you kick me off the air since Harold McGee is here I was

I talked about clostridium perfringens and Rachel Dutton and these papers with Salt Rising bread that I promised I would talk about before so you want to give us a little little clue in there who why don't you get a started because I was a few weeks ago and asked me about Salt Rising bread and I never done before so I made some is a test and Salt Rising bread is a an interesting interesting because bacteria Lee Reyes product in fact it's raised with an anaerobic bacteria clostridium perfringens which is a pathogen right and in fact certain strains of it do really nasty things like cause gas gangrene which was a big problem in the world in the World War 1 I guess I'm probably even after but that's when it first became a big deal right so anyway so I made it and the bread and it had a very distinctive taste to it

went to Africa and tasted a cassava like a like a dumpling it was made from cassava cassava as you may or may not know is Reddit so it's so for a long. Allowed to and that's it to get rid of toxins in it right but also goes through some sort of fermentation and picks up characters to flavor the weather it's 5:30 a.m. and I met up with Rachel Dutton who is a microbiologist at Harvard studying various fermentation saying what's it actually feels what she what she do for a living besides helps chest with that thang she has a five-year postdoctoral Fellowship essentially to kind of open up this whole subject to it to academic study which it really hasn't been open to before nice I like that

I forget who the fellowship is from behind it which is why she's taking his to study Cheese's in particular but other fermented foods as model systems for understanding microbial ecosystems because these things generally cheeses for example now each cheese has a different set of microbes that ripens it and that it tends to be for 5 and it's relatively stable and so understanding how all that works she feels will help us understand microbial life in general and that's the The Proposal that the got funded indeed involved

clostridium perfringens but when a piece of butyric acid I'm going to be tearing his hair so it turns out that you know if this is in fact like half of how I ever accomplished anything is that I taste something different I put it away in my memory bank and then like years later if something comes up is that how you work as well and then Harold cuz I said well I wonder whether or not they cost per diem in Salt Rising bread is in fact not her friends as I wonder where this other one as well and Harold found and emailed me possibly the best article I've ever read in my life and I don't have it here and fortunately but they didn't get to Payson to my thing but it is

1923 and you wanted like from a traditional starter standpoint and then they also made salt risen bread from a culture they had taken off of an injured gas gangrene patient in World War one so like some pour some poor fellow who you know in the trench got hit with something developed gas gangrene with the they isolated that strain and he baked bread with it and then ate it presumably because he said that you know he describe the texture and I was good at it and then then then then took the bread and reculture the bacteria from the bread to prove the spores and not because I remember folks spore-forming and was in fact able to call trinette

and injected into guinea pigs and noticed that the Salt Rising bread clostridium was active but not as virulent as the one that was developed from the gas gangrene patient so it is fantastic stuff and then specifically said it wasn't this other one because I had a different kind of fermentation fantastic paper something you could never do today right now in the guinea pigs eat bread baked bread with baked bread with gas gangrene stuff now so but then later work later work including someone says that she has a salt bread blog Susan Brown it did some paper where there's been never been a case they don't prove that it can't cause disease it'll show there's never been a case of disease from clostridium perfringens to Salt Rising bread what do what do you think about what you have concerns making that in your kitchen

and now I'm going to do it again because you've raised this whole thing for me again up some milk and cornmeal and things like that and it kind of intentionally let it rot right for a day and then make bread with that and you do end up with this really interesting some people in my own family found it off-putting but I found a really interesting flavor reading isn't very interesting reading you do for cassava little bit of a reading literally you just take the stuff and you throw in a big bag of water and let it sit for a couple of days and in West Africa doesn't take very long for it to do its thing because it's hot as hell but you know what hat what Harold's is for now for several years been telling you about Reddit amouranth stocks

yeah yeah which is how you make stinky tofu in China you you let vegetable kind of waste vegetable materials you can amaranth leaves are delicious but the stocks are so tough that there inedible you throwing water and just water no salt so you're not doing a lactic acid fermentation and other things take over and you end up with something that's really stinky and then you can either serve that or you can put tofu in that same bad of stuff for a few days until it soaks up those flavors and that's how you get sticky toe has a microbiology that been studied yet not to my knowledge not not in English accessible materials Harold thanks so much for coming on the air we love having any time your New York please come by and see if they'll wait thank you for the bacon Matt and the bacon Band-Aids whoever you are pretty issues

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