Cooking Issues Transcript

Episode 127: William McGee

this is Chris Young co-author of modernist cuisine I'd like to invite you to check out chefsteps.com it's a free website we've created as a place to learn new cooking techniques and collaborate with curious Cooks from around the world sign up now it chefsteps.com you were listening to Heritage Radio Network. Org a non-profit member supported radio station 4 million strong with folks tuning income over 200 countries we are education we are entertainment we are the future of food May is our membership Drive become a member and support us while receiving newsletters Advanced invite special discounts and a membership card we need your support is it our website and put the Donate button to become a member today thank you for believing in us and enjoy the show

Pizzeria on a Heritage Radio Network from 12 to 12:45 music this week, your questions to 718-497-2128 that's 718-497-2128 before I get started on time today guess it wasn't the train cuz you rode a bike that's right I don't know

I really like what I was trying to program on a computer tells me to go from my house to studio and there's one really unsafe intersection so they have to go around not use that intersection I went down another place and went down like for like half a block to my maximum what happened one way street and hit me with a smarter because they no longer handout motor vehicle tickets to bikes which is what they use to do so any biker could just go to court and say yo Jana I was on a bike bike was not a motor vehicle sorry and then I was it but they have a new kind of summons but I can't pay by mail I have to physically go to court will you can go online and plead not guilty right now

hey look I was breaking me traffic regulations like great although it's a little bit of an insult to have a ticket for the privilege of riding these Brooklyn Roads as as Neil Diamond would say which by the way much as I don't hate Brooklyn away massage hate that I have nothing broken spine worst roads that I have seen on the east coast of the United States especially in the bike lane where were forced to drive it's like imagine if amusement park rides weren't fun Imagine like the biggest Moguls you ever seen skiing and those are that is Bushwick people that's what we that's what it's like I drive a car and I basically have to get new brakes every like six seven months or something it's ya ya and all the car is trying to avoid the potholes and try not to bottom and scrape yourself up nothing more fun for them to run into a biker and trying to go next to them at you and they're in their normal spot you know I'm saying so

I am proud to have my money my ticket penalty money go towards supporting the awesome roads Brooklyn and at my usual trick of just you know being extremely honest about what I was doing and nicely also didn't work on this when you guys were there to hand out Regan tickets there on an antibiotic if you want to break the law get off the bike and walk across I wouldn't given you the ticket in like

okay that's not true about biking for Tom Fisher Road in last week I tried making sous vide creme on glaze using the method on your site that everything went fine until I try to bag the mixture it seems like the blending Incorporated far too much are into the mix and the first time I try to bag the mix it quickly Dublin volume I made a huge mess before I get going with the sea dress right so people know what the hell I'm talking about when you make your normal creme anglaise you you care for you so you don't get me air into it you temper the day goes by the way you're making it sous-vide or what you do is you throw I'll give you my recipe you throw 10 egg yolks into a blender you throw 170 grams of sugar in there a little bit of salt whatever flavorings you might want to add you don't have to add the things I've no later cuz I'm going to be in a bag and they won't bottle eyes off you going to add 500 mL of milk and 500 mils of heavy cream and

Ashley what I do is I add the milk I don't have the cream in the blender stuff I had the milk turn on the blender on high Blends it it does are rated which is a source of the one of the sources of the problem with the times that I'm glad to meet you here but it also breaks up the allies of the egg yolks so that you don't need to strain your criminal goes after the two big advantages of while the three big advantages of some of the big advantages of doing a glaze low temperature sous vide R1 if you use a blender you don't need to strain it because one there's no allows it in it and to when you're cooking low temperature never going to curl it so there's no little kernels of egg yolk that you need to straighten out right so you get rid of that hosts training nonsense that's one big advantage to a flavors are preserved very well in the bag and certain flavors like cinnamon it's really easy to get that awesome kind of red hot cinnamon flavor you like right now so I says say something she likes to see the secret things that she likes like red hot

so I could have won that porkchop whatever it is we gave away so it gives you that red-hot thing because the vacuum intensifies extraction flavor out of another Advantage is extremely hygienic right because you don't need to pour it into something and then cool it very quickly you can just take the bag put the bag in ice water chill it down and 3 because you've killed all the vegetative cells and it when the cooking right how to sterilize it so it's not safe you know not refrigerated but it'll last an extremely long time so you are some of the benefits however sugar and salt and maybe the flavoring then I add the cream and just put the blender on low to stir it to combine because you don't want to froth it up too much cuz I stuff you have to give it a waiter now to finish the rest of this question to remember he has a Thomas having problems it was blowing up and making a huge mess which is true right after cleaning sorry Tom that cleaning sucks cleaning creme anglaise make sure I the bottom of your vacuum machine

sucks really sucks after cleaning I move the mixer hotel pan and tried to deaerated in the vacuum sealer but even after many cycles to make still had a frothy bubbly texture is true I eventually baguette and Ziplocs and circulated makes me came out firing where did I go wrong text Tim Fisher okay here a couple of things one creme anglaise bubbles like a weasel and there's no way around that right if you are going to be a write-in a panda for him which I don't by the way but if you are going to do it you have to start with extremely thin mixtures in the hood when I say same thickness not like same consistency mixtures in the hotel pan like like a couple of milliliters and do it in four batches then you can get a full rise bubble pop drop and boil out of a creme anglaise in a vacuum machine not a heat boil I don't wanna hear anyone talk to me about heat boils not heat boiler system vacuum well and you can do it however at what I like what I normally do is I remove all of the plastic thing a majig like things that look like cutting boards the space or take them all out do not use a bagging attachment this is worth

do it in a normal like like 10 or 12 inch wide vacuum bag August 10th I think since only put half a liter of product into it already know how to be if you make the leader back with 10 egg yolks 170 Britton some more than a liter half in each bag right put the bag over the edge of the vacuum machine and then cut a hole in between the seal bar in the edge of the machine to let the air come out this way you have the maximum expansion room in the bag before the mixture start boiling out all over the vacuum machine gives you the maximum space for it to inflate right then drop everything I'm sure you're mixed wasn't cold enough it vitally important to use cold cold cold egg yolks cold cold cold cold cold cold cream sugar is never cold usually unless you do your mise en Place beforehand and throw it in the fridge for a while but very few people do that unless you're working for demos so sometimes I'm doing demos unfortunate enough to be able to have the sugar be cold like that but we've already are rated in the vacuum machine

even though it's cold it's going to want to boil over a lot so what you do is you close it and then you wait keep your finger on the stop button to keep your finger there do not take your finger off its going to start sucking a vacuum right and then all the sudden start boiling up a little bit and you like I'm okay right okay no problem

order start spraying up out of the back at that instant right before the mixture hits the seal bar. As soon as you hit stop right now you have me getting rid of all of the air in there so it will get some flotation in your in your bath which is why you should weigh it down and push it down but it's good enough and it gets rid of and then the further cooking is going to pop the rest of those are bubbles and so you do not have a frothy mixture when you're done right you simply don't now if you do pack your stuff in a zippy right I've noticed that it can it Cooks is fine and you don't have as many problems with your with the Overflow like you say but there are a couple of other unintended consequences first there's more you're not getting hardly any air out from the planning step when you do it in a zippy so what you're going to have to do is let it sit for a while for the are too kind of like come to the surface and then kind of re get that are out in the Zippy before you cook 1/2 Inside by

Thai taste test I've noticed that cream on glaze not with it with it then put in a blender one and it's cooking his VP without using a vacuum has more of a cooked egg flavor more of a sulfur is cooked egg flavor then I'll come and Clay is cooked in a vacuum bag that's just been our experience with Jason side-by-side it's not that bad to say if you tasted side-by-side you would always choose the one that I vacuum bag and last but not least vacuum bags are extreme Zippy's are extremely fragile at creme anglaise temperatures and they feel really really flimsy now this is kind of dovetail into what genre brought into us a couple weeks ago but I haven't had a chance to read yet if there's no safety issue as far as SC Johnson wax family company is concerned but there is a possibility of structural failure okay so there you have it filled vs. Latino filbert to the Hazel

you like those suckers right he looks like wood that kind of talk about this morning that John sent me on a little bit of a native nut kick I'm on a kind of even though they're not native with a name like to chilly how's it going to be made of anyway but airport but whatever they're older Heritage brightest but I became interested very recently in Hickory Nut Shagbark shellbark Hickory nuts and also butternuts which is white Walnut you know what I mean so interesting that you can't get Butternut this time of year anyone that had them is sold out and they supplied extremely rare because all the white walnut trees are dying because of because they're dying from disease kind of horrible story but I do have some even though it's also very hard to get Hickory nuts at this point I'm getting some paper not saying so we'll test those who play around with the made a mess and we'll talk about it it's like it's supposed to be as good as the pecan like as good as a pecan like some people say even better than the pecan and yet nobody uses anymore because it's more difficult to harvest and no more difficult to crack

it's like it's like a grown up my whole life thinking that Southerners have a lock on Native nuts the pecan being you know fundamentally a gift from heaven and here I find out later that us Northerners also have a you know a a a god-like gift from Heaven nut. The Shagbark Hickory and and I'm 42 freaking yourself and I never had one is there any justice in that might my iPad decided they didn't want to go to SC Johnson ever since they've shared their email about safe cooking with Ziploc bags few weeks ago in my experience is pretty rare for big corporations to go out on a limb over much of anything so it's worth applauding when they do more useful though is a chance they'd throw some sponsors support your waves you hear that doesn't answer my question or not they don't listen to don't know if they don't care but I am glad that they did write us that email saying the Zippy's were okay to use and I haven't

I need push back from that if we had any emails saying that were bad people because of that mean we got email saying we're bad people but not because of that write write Dave nastasha etc etc today

they're not they're not happy unless they're they're glowing in the other room okay to make a wheat free Alex Inc wheat with these separate gluten components wheat flour is typically 11 to 13% protein 80% of which is gluten and gluten is about a one-to-one ratio between glutine and included in everything depends without wheat flour I've not been able to find a detailed list of flowers and there gluten in gleed infractions there gluten free websites that list gliadin containing grains since we did it as a primary issue and celiac disease but decided to not post hard numbers I have not found references for a good source of lutein in this approach to constructing a loaf of bread work for example while Rye flour contain gluten

Panthers and Panthers fans are a 5 carbon sugar the polymers of 5-carbon sugar have similar negative interaction the bakery Network website isolated glutine and into a domain of weed and a flower with the protein relax and reincorporated Adam okay first of all I mean clearly this approach would not help really supposed to not help if someone actually had celiac disease because they can't have the gluten regardless where it comes from

but the question is is there some sort of just straight glutine and not not that I not that I know of and I wouldn't necessarily see the I wouldn't necessarily see the point of getting something is high in Glee it in and then adding just continuing when you could just buy vital wheat gluten at the store you know and add the vital wheat gluten to your bread mix and increase the protein compound and ask for pentas and repent of penicillins are interesting I think you can add enzymes that break break them down some what are some enzymes that break them down naturally that kind of reduce the viscosity what time of day they seem to reduce the ability of gluten networks that form in two different ways one they actually interfere with the interaction between the the polymers that are formed when you hydrate the gluten right and secondly they increase the viscosity of the water Matrix within it and therefore make it difficult

difficult for the gluten to hydrate so they have a two-step thing that you're actually inhibiting the formation of the network you know on a molecular level and increasing viscosity making less of the water available to gluten dependence and they're doing now my presumption is that buy doping up to a certain level with vital wheat gluten without used to do all the time and low protein flowers just took it with vital wheat gluten you can ameliorate some of these effects but I don't know that you're going to be able to make entirely wheat-free IE from no wheat products including no wheat gluten stuff that has gluten in it on a separate note that's interesting pentas and I don't remember any human studies but people are very worried about feeding high pentas and Grains to animals because they can lower the feed conversion ratio because what happened to his is the same thing happens in that in the dough the pendants and increase the viscosity happens in your gut cuz they don't get broken down right away and so this increase viscosity can lead to a lower absorption of certain nutrients in

Branson said are fed grains high in pentas and if you want you can read the article increase small intestinal fermentations part responsible for the anti nutritive activity of non-starch polysaccharides and chickens and go read that if that's the kind of crap you like to read which I guess I am on a side note I was looking through and I saw Time Magazine a couple of months ago came out with an article saying you know how thick is a 28% of people in the US said to the Time Magazine people something wet clothes of 20% said that they were trying to reduce the amount of gluten in their diet and a crazy is crazy so what's happened is that the gluten free market has freaking explode it like it's like it's a multi kajillion dollar industry because all of these people who like well there's some people who are allergic to it so maybe if I just don't have it to it's going to be better for me even though I'm not allergic to it even though it does no harm to me at all even though it does nothing but make my bread delicious it may be organic

it makes no dang it's makes no damn sense but you know what good here's two things good good good good like make a buck you know what I mean if you're going to do gluten-free so like Piper who works with me to call him out here Piper who works with us she's the booker and Dax lab manager there have been on the show once or twice right sex with Piper is celiac he's legit you know what I mean like the man can't have gluten in fact he like muscles through it like when he took his test the French culinary ate all the gluten got the huge rash and all this other stuff and you know it was horrible problem right so he's legitimately gluten-free and so and there is a huge rise in actual cases are so it's reported to me of people you know with actual intolerance to gluten and so if 28% of the people around there or sheep and believe this craziness a day should get rid of gluten to even out has no effect on them that say God bless him cuz it means that there's more people pouring money into problems are going to help out actual people with problems like Piper Wright

speaking of gluten-free flours in Africa dirty talk about this in Africa they have a type of millet called fonio That's So Others May increased interest in kind of the Lost crops of Africa and there's a bunch of different reason people interested me taste right people in Africa economics 3 I guess those are the main ones right I cannot bus economics politics ecology you know soil use that you know and you know taste and a lot of crops are originally from the area are different species of millet Millet is not a single type of grain in the way that you know wheat is there a bunch of different grass families with small seeds that are called millet

use the small mail at the large male in this tiny tiny tiny one that's known in Senegal is fonio with an F are very high in proteins but apparently not glutine and cleared in so they can be consumed by a gluten-free Pho so I had a loaf of bread in Senegal that was composed they said it could just be lying right could be lying but they said it was 80% fonio and only 20% wheat the texture with like 100% wheat bread so maybe there's some good ideas there for gluten-free people with fonio if anyone has any experimentation that they can send it if they've experimented I would love to hear about it I hear that long fermentation times make for better Millet based doze but I haven't done any research yet I did bring some back but haven't had time to play with play with it I've also heard that Thomas Keller's $15 a pound!! Gluten-free flours pretty good but I would bet not for Beretta Bedford pasta that's what Mark Is it supposed to write he was the Thomas Keller's fantastically fence flower

he likes it right I wish I could be there when I was there Yeah Yeah Yeahs side-by-side gluten in your leg and take the glue but like you're pretty good it better because they cooked it better better than a lot of normal people's real gluten full pasta that was right

this is Chris Young co-author of modernist cuisine together with the target for Ryan Matthew Smith and Chef Grant Crilly we've created something exciting and new at chefsteps.com each day in our kitchen at Seattle's Pike Place Market we are working on new recipes as well as updating classic ones that we love and we're always looking for new techniques that make the impossible possible at chefsteps.com we publish it all online with detailed step-by-step demonstrations as well as explanations of the science that answers the why behind the how in the kitchen and threw our Forum you can engage with our team as well as a friendly community of curious Cooks from around the world if you're interested in becoming a better cook if you want more from the creative team behind modernist cuisine and if like us you're a fan of Dave Arnold in cooking issues than we think there's a lot you'll like and the best part chefsteps.com is entirely free to learn

how do I love that they say they're fan of cooking issues in that at and we're putting the awkward position of having to cut Chris Young off to play a Chris Young from the first time it's ever happened as good as nice things that even the people who do you who does their webwork Michael natkin really yeah he does their wagons hours that's what I like doing the web work is like a loaded and love food figure membership Drive May is almost over and it if anyone by the end of the show I'm going to go ahead and title the episode their name so so

is it but it seems like a real life now not like where you call in and you get five shamwows for the price of one or two know that the right side right there where to say we should have contests for but there is an awesome pair of cow hair Chaps in the studio that I've tried to steal like three times I think we should make shamwows that have the the logo about the cooking issues logo on that be sweet and then if you call in and become member is Grant he's liking a grant and Chris Grant apparently huge badass awesome guy I met I met him a couple times at the Wynn modernist food was doing there like a tour de cuisine around the

around the country and in the Seattle but apparently just like a monster cook that's what I hear Anyway by the way 72128 Mark Jensen rights in regarding eggs Mark Jensen here fork in the road mobile Galley Galley Kitchen in my next apartment and a depressing I don't like you like Kelly kitchens right now in my apartment and moving my proposition it's good because it's my kids are going to have a room but my kitchen now is like kind of Bean is kind of beat down at this point has been 10 years since I've done anything to it like literally but it's like sweet because you can fit eight people in my kitchen cooking and interacting and having fun without bumping butts you know what I mean because I'm not worried about I'm not a commercial kitchen in space is not a huge premium I'm a little worried about how tight is going to be the next time around waiting cuz I don't care don't care

I need to go back to Kentucky some point since I had a good time I like Kentucky I like bourbon I like him if you like Bernie like and of course it's okay you like horses Kentucky three yeses in a row she hates everything here for sure okay yes over eggs left over 90% of the eggs are you going to use our one of three temperatures 6262 cells in an immersion circulator to cook a chicken egg is 62 Celsius for 45 minutes to an hour you're going to get like a classic eggs benedict egg in terms of the yolk in the outside going to be custody if you want to make it harder on the outside white you can drag me through simmering water on the way to service okay and you just cook it in the Shell you crack it out and cracks out beautifully it's 1

George mazing life-changing technique yada yada 63 degrees Celsius right or anything really above 62 862-562-6263 you get what's called me York weather York is creamy throughout but it's more like a sauce almost like thick on Glazier custard really nice I really like that for like soups where you don't want to bleed out entirely but you want to build a mixing eventually as a fine sauce or in an ass bag sometimes I like it we don't want to run out entirely 64 is really really creamy but only sags a little bit and I would I call it is just so those are the three temperatures that are going to comprise 90% of the eggs that you cook in an immersion circulator all right I never lose some leftovers in a service never wearing two waist especially a delicious fresh local egg I show them in an ice bath and using the next day as an ingredient other dishes so far discarding the album end in jet that other wife and just using the yolk

I started with salad dressing Caesars of course but as an emulsifier in and almost anything and I just went the next step and sub them in a modernist cuisine hollandaise recipe with you talk a little bit about last time instead of cooking the raw egg yolk bags and Zippy's in the circulator I simply Blended the whole 64 degrees C yolks with the vinegar reduction to make a great base for the butter to emulsify it into it's freaking fantastic it works better than the original recipe take that take that it works better than the original recipe and the thick texture coming out of the isi cuz they were shooting their holidays are the is a gun is fantastic my question first I can't think of any dangers outside of temperature control is doing this can you know as long as the as long as you you are using it with it it's an RTE food right so you treat it like any other RTE food where you you know killed you know pathogens in it and you know use it accordingly so if you let it sit out for a long time cold then you shot that you know what I mean if you keep it up two temperatures

going to be like if you put it in an isi and warm Bane and you keep it in that vein Marie at a temperature above the killing of the kill point for you know whatever you're interested in salmonella listeria whatever then you know know it's totally safe I can't think of any extra problems 2nd you must have had leftover low temp base from time to time what do you like to do with them. Thanks and please send me a call ASAP I still thinking a Sears on is the name to go with get it on vs. Marc Johnson I've never done a whole bunch like four service had 64 eggs we know would mostly run 62s for Benedict and 62s you can honestly reuse the next day straight up you know what I mean like you can't cuz what we do is we cook the 60s here and you might be able to do this with a 63 or 64 as well so we cook the 60 let's say 62

we cook the egg at 62 for an hour and usually we over we overload the thing and so you know what to get back up to an hour an hour and 15 minutes and then we drop the temperature to 57 at 57 Celsius there's no creep at all it's totally safe right and there's no creep at all in in the egg yolk texture over the course of a whole service you can take those same eggs put them in in cold water would ever put them in the fridge bring them back up the next day you're so you can you cook off your next days eggs and then you put a note after you cook them when it's time to re therm you throw it the eggs from the previous day and when you when you had in 57 they come up to Temp so it warm enough to serve in about 20 minutes and then you 30 and then you can and then you can use them obviously use them first but you can use them like yesterday's eggs with

I've never noticed a loss in quality unless you're up with him in the white can suffer a little bit now that's a 62 once you get up to 63 and 64 in the white start to get more set you might have a little bit of weirdo whites on the second day but you can try it but I think you're used to the the egg yolk is awesome I can't think of any I couldn't get many uses for the whites but someone will call in at me and you could always just crack into a pot of boiling water the same as whites will go away hard cook those suckers and then using an egg salad and everybody knows it everybody who's anybody like snakes out stars do you like even stars like snakes delicious Jack Joe my right on this yes receive is kind of like a low-rent kind of a thing but it's really delicious I why would that be a low anything you like celery salad

Mattia right saying about sous vide and safety hi Dave nastasha Jack and ready others like that. Thanks for a great show a little bit of like the blue button need a boo but that's true we feel like a ghost or something what did Boo-Berry ever say a blue on air for blueberry cereal I'll go through YouTube and I'll pull one out contains the FTC blue one I think it's one right and I we have a container of it make it to I can't remember and if you eat enough of that you don't defecate blue you defecate green

did you know that no but did you tell everybody about your cereal puffer yet can we get to that before the show ends so it turns out in the olden days when I say old and I mean or currently they still use this machine in Mexico make puff cereal here's what you did you took your grain your temper it out too I think around 12% 12 to 40% moisture somewhere in there right tempering very important I think you can do it but that's mainly what they did and then you put it in a sealed chamber right the seal chamber has a porthole on it with a dick a door that shuts down really tight got a huge giant locking mechanism like a giant Vise grip on it then you spin it so that it keeps on spinning so they everything's even it's like a Tumblr almost like a dryer right then you put a propane flame on it like a big blower like for a furnace and you keep that sucker up

until it gets up till like a hundred and seventy or 180 PSI like 365° Fahrenheit something like that and when it gets up to their you stop it and you hit the lever with a lead pipe might get steel pipe but I'm hoping it'll lead pipe cuz that's good that's food safe trip instantly into paw sweet popcorn of rice topped anything and this is how Puffs cereal was originally made and it's called a puffin gun and that is that's why I like if any one of you remember that you know I don't I was not born yet but I used to listen to a comedian named Stan freberg from the fifties when I was growing up because my parents listen to him and so you know I'm familiar with all the old marketing term for the bad guy still alive and that and that the old model used to be shot from Guns because that's what they used to say how about Puffs cereal that was shot from Guns cuz legitimately was shopping

Knology call continuous poppers that no longer work on this batch technology and they're only using countries that can't don't have the infrastructure to support moving the larger pieces of continuous popping equipment around but they're still used and they're made by the Puritan Manufacturing Corporation of Omaha Nebraska in the same way that they were made the decades and decades and decades ago and the Museum of food and drink just received a couple of weeks ago our very own popping gun I could not be more excited because I'm going to pop up everything like anything you I'm going to put the hell out of that they dried shrimp I'm going to see if I can tell strip I don't know if I can because protein out of car but whatever you name it I'm going to act like I'm going to take all these books of this bushel and try to puppies bookshelf

so this summer if you're in New York City late summer because we have to build a truck and we have to make it food grade we have to get our permitting and all that but look for the Museum of food and drink be hauling a puffin gun around as the first step towards our cereal exhibit that we're going to have is the first exhibit at Museum of food that I put that we think is being stored at the Heritage meet at the Heritage meet headquarters Heritage Foods USA Heritage Foods USA but yeah because not only as Heritage Radio and heritage heritage lose hair is musee a long time supporter of the museum but Patrick Martens are found it on the board the board that's okay I've got great news what's that William McGee just became a member so that will be the title of today's episode name the game nice thanks thanks I appreciate it

catch up on your archived many hours of listening to do I start learn about suvee cooking as I'm totally amazed by it specially cooking tough Meats for long numbers of hours Canon 24-70 2 hours I would like to try to learn to cook most food sous-vide especially all kinds of meat the benefit in both long time cooking tender cuts of a shorter time I'm currently using the polyscience create a circular which I think is great so I'm curious about the safety aspects where in the temperature zone is the actual danger zone or save Stones if you and is the so-called danger zone between 3.3 and 54 degrees for sale or between 3.3 degrees Celsius and 60 degrees Celsius 644 you guys out there 1640 always remember 60 Celsius hundred 40 Fahrenheit one of those magical numbers you need to remember okay at what temperature can I safely and keep it there for long cooking does that temperature to 55 degrees

I need to move it up to 60 degrees Celsius this is my main question I am which interval shall I avoid especially cooking long hours this is my second main question though I'm aware that there are many other benefits to work in the 60° F meets as enzymes get more active excetra although they get the Oxbow going to get it and take too long but I'm curious for a pure bacteria parasites perspective in this to be contradictory person below I'm interested in knowing that I get a decent reduction of all normal pathogen and parasites including trichinella when cooking for what's the story behind the different statements 54.4 vs 6t need references. Douglas Baldwin sites who usually has pretty good numbers Thomas Keller's book under pressure at Thomas colors book Under Pressure specifically put the danger zone at 4.4 to 60 so otherwise Refrigeration temperature up to 1:40 and that's my main gripe with that book actually that's just it's wrong I think and let you know what I've heard discussions of it with people who are involved and the issue is

didn't want to get into complicated they want to get into complicated discussions about temperature versus time about that book is them saying that you shouldn't keep meets below 140 with 60 degrees Celsius for a long. Of time when everybody knows they cooking at 55 degrees Celsius for 72 hours is entirely safe ant about 54 for for any length of time in meat and beasts any length of time not ground beef for any length of time for a whole muscle cut over 50 44 / 117 minutes 170 minute and above a minimum of 117 minutes guarantee you safety according to the old food codes so under pressure numbers is like entirely strange I think and kind of I think like the weak spot of that book

then sous-vide looking at Cuisine technology website is Stacy the danger zone is between 4.4 and 60 but then they say the rule of thumb is a vegetative pathogens pathogen and parasite development can grow only below 54 for which team spare compared to that Baldwin sides and then not a reference is an interesting people are are are basically wrong there's you know there's one site that's he mentions it's interesting called The Authority was it something I have to look at it and then and call you out later but it's basically saying that it needs to be more study which is absolutely true here's the real deal okay a hundred and forty degrees 60 degrees Celsius is the temperature at which most of the pathogens that were interested in are killed in very very quick order right so that number is on the safety in the food safety thing

anything below that is as soon as this is danger zone because they don't trust you to do accurate measurements at anything below that temperature and if it hits that temperature you're pretty much guaranteed to have wiped out anything that's a problem right and that's why they choose those numbers and because they assume that there's a lot higher contamination on ground meat even though the pathogens of Interest or the same on ground meat as on Fresh Meat they put the ground meat numbers even higher because they want to make sure that you rapidly kill everything on there right does that mean that in order to kill bacteria you need to make it up to that temperature absolutely not okay so most pathogens grow very well up to about 40 degrees C and somewhere between 40 and 50 degrees Celsius go into a static no growth phase right so anything above 50° Celsius so I don't trust

as a safety measure for cooking for cooking things for killing bacteria and in fact I don't use anything below 54.4 even though there are probably numbers that but are below 54.4 degrees Celsius that will kill most of the bacterium interested cooked long enough I don't have any data that supports the thermal death time for bacterial those temperatures and so I don't recommend any procedures below that temperature for pasteurization purposes okay cuz remember the lower you go on a temperature just because there's two things you want to do when your when your heating something you want to make it taste good three things you want to make it taste good that's the most important thing from my standpoint to you want to prevent bacteria from growing right and you want to kill the bacteria that are present cooking over 50 and you know and definitely over 50 to Celsius which is Bruno Gusteau's number is going to prevent the pathogens are bacteria that grow well above that temperature is bacteria that grow on thermal vents and 202 degree you know water

the pathogens of Interest aren't going to be growing above it will take you so nice but you know number 52 and I can be growing above that number right but the question is how fast are you killing them right and so for the bacteria that are present that you're trying to kill the lower the temperature above the begin Killzone the longer it takes and I don't have curves it tell you how long to cook a piece of meat to pasteurize it when you're at 54 Below 54.4 and so I don't give any numbers for below 54.4 so the problem is is that your they write the codes and they've this term safety zone danger zone is it supposed to be like kind of a boneheaded rule that we can all just follow and will guarantee safety and it is if you follow that old you know you know fridge up to 60 degrees Celsius 140 rule yeah they're going to make Safe products because that's inherently safe

however it's not nuancing up there are many products that are safe there cook below that temperature it's just a question now you need to actually worried about being precise I need to worry about how long you cook something right so it puts an extra variable in that the food code under its normal guys's doesn't want to handle that much rather just have a Coke with the 60 so would safe kind of a thing you know what I mean because remember the regulatory Boards out there they're not they're not tasked with giving you as a cooked everything that you want to make the product as delicious as you want them to do their only task is to ensure that food that is served to the public is safe that's it they don't care whether it's delicious that's not their job station deer days I've been trying to apply carbonation to beverages for quite some time with poor results and tried the isi soda siphon it got very poor carbonation even after using very cold water that makes sense its I'll tell you how to do it

various types of liquid shaking after each CO2 charge and leave it in the fridge long enough to help for the dissolution of CO2 or does the dissolving of CO2 in the meantime I got a hold of a 300 gram CO2 bottle and a beer regulator that I'm trying to connect with a soft drink bottle through a tire valve see the photo I'm still having poor results because there's a slight leak of CO2 through the valve there no screws to the valve and I believe I have been searching around a lot and cannot manage the PSI that I'm aiming for but I'm working to find a kind of glue that will stick to the plastic and rubber and would tolerate high pressure hopefully we'll have it show up by tomorrow though if you're aware of any simpler way of attaching a bottle to a regular would really appreciate your advice and going crazy on the product and I'm trying to work on a gin tonic made by Cold Infuse quinine bark citric acid and sugar and Jen the flavor is more dirty than a g&t but nevertheless interesting inspired by Gin and Juice I had a few weeks ago on a trip to New York City would like to serve champagne glass my question how do you manage to get such great Leaf in an elegant bubbles I work on it

how to get the right carbonation and do you know the amount of CO2 that you can I get to dissolve per liter I rather champagne holds about 12 rounds per liter is it's about right for the cocktail what are the differences between carbonated soft drinks and other cocktails including alcohol and I understand it but I'll call you need more PSI but how much any other tricks thanks so much in advance use me for sending such a long email and first of all I look at the picture he was using a tire valve which is a Schrader valve that is being kind of bolted into the top of the regular a pet bottle this technique goes back to about 2002 from The Grandmaster of carbonating at home I Richard Jake inch and I noticed that his technique was ripped off in a bunch of instructables without a will of course without crediting him because people are tea bags so you know I had already had at that point at professional professional carbonating when I get home because it's the only way I knew how to get carbonation at that point when he wrote it but when I read his article on home carbonation it was before I had the car

just how I do it now essentially his technique is a homemade version of the carbonator capsule by liquid bread I highly recommend that you purchase a liquid bread carbonator cap and the bottle and bag syrup the premix fall off valves that go with it there they're very cheap that you can get the cat for 15 bucks at any Homebrew Supply online and you can get the rest of the stuff it's goes right on your hose with no leaks and a hose clamp for about 3 bucks and with that you can turn any soda bottle into a really great carbonation thing aside from the league which may or may not be the problem when your carbon a straight water you going to want to be about 35 PSI when your carbon dating a cocktail at the gin and tonic you're going to want to shoot for about 14% alcohol in about 45 PSI meter carbonated water you going to want it to be a better me before you 35-40 if you got to want to be at 0 degrees Celsius there should be chunks of ice in it it should be cold I remember going to keep as you park

play dance going to get warm because you're not feeling it while you're doing it to me a carbonated cocktail you going to want to be about 22 degrees Fahrenheit when you're working that's the number where you want 22 23 at about 14% that's the number and you going to want to go 45 the reason you more carbonation is because alcohol absorbed more CO2 so they have the effect of CO2 on you you're going to need to have a higher pressure the other thing you're going to need to do is get rid of the airspace when your carbon dang it's a classic think that's the reason you got bad carbonation in your in your is I was the Ice is very difficult aspects of use of soda siphon you can actually get better carbonation results of using a regular whipped cream maker than you can out of the soda one because at least you can Purge the headspace do you use and I signed you want to get a good result you throw into get very cold you can even keep ice in the isi you put one charger and you shake it a little bit your phone it all off instantly to get rid of all of the bubbles nucleation sites that are in the thing and a purse to headspace of oxygen and nitrogen whatever else then you throw in your second charger shake it let it sit and then it will be

if you release it slowly when you're doing in a bottle you need to squeeze out all the headspace which is why soda bottles are so great get rid of all that are in the headspace only fill it about three-quarters full clothes it carbonated once met form of getting rid of nucleation site carbonated again phone with off again get rid of more nucleation site carbonated a third time by the third time if she lets it in the in the freezer for a little while to mellow out then you can uncap it very carefully and pour it and you should be good either problem you're having with that valve is unless you shut off the gas you open up the gas when it's under pressure it's going to make a mess everywhere but anyway so go get the carbonator cap make sure that everyone gives a high praises to Richard Jake and the granddaddy of the carbonation cap right from Alaska

I was hoping that you might pontificate a bit on smoking salmon another fish I live in the interior of Alaska and make annual pilgrimage to dip net the yearly quota for various salmon species this is one of the greatest things about living in Alaska I fillet some cut some of the state's Premier immediate consumption leave a few a few hole for extravagant Harvest parties and smoke / dry the rest not like that pallet pasty stuff shave that they sell in the store are smoked salmon should be almost Jerky like in full of smokey slightly salty sweet flavor I love to smoke salmon I love smoked salmon and want to do better learn more excetra that's I'd like to hear what you might suggest including ways you'd like to use this fish candy okay first of all just so you know like that like I'm sure most of our listeners know that like you know there's a salmon Atlantic salmon right and then there's Pacific salmon and they're not the same species and in the Pacific salmon there's a bunch of different species if they get up there in Alaska they get the Chinook / the King which is the highest in fat content the Sockeye which is also known as the Red Witch doesn't have quite as much

has a real kind of Punchy salmon flavors allow people like it The Coho which is also kind of high in fat and then the charm which is lower in the paint which Democrat but also because they like the luckiest flavor fact that you're smoking actually high-fat is nice because if that's going to pick up more on the smoke okay so so here's what I'm assuming you first of all that the stuff that you're saying is pale pasty say stuff in the supermarket I agree smoked most smoked salmon that you got in a supermarket when it's vacuum pack is wretched but the same style of salmon I do not a salmon you're talking about the same style salmon is incredibly delicious when you get someone to cut it hand cut it off of the whole filet and you eat it after has never been vacuumed packed and allowed to get all mushy and nasty I can attest they are not even the same product you know I I don't know who sells it in Alaska but when you go to New York go to buy Russ and Daughters and have them hand slice you some of their sum of their their their sandwich

show the procedure that you're using the last I'm assuming is you do an initial brine the initial Brian is going to kill some of the doors going to prevent some of the bacteria from growing it's going to be a kind of a curing step then you're going to air-dry it they're going to equalize it are you going to equalize it rather than you get air-dry it and then you're going to smoke it I'm assuming you're talking cold smoking actually I did a bunch a bunch of research on on they kind of safety and I guess I'm going to have to leave now. Next time or should I go. Time

next time next time all right well on Pauline I'm going to talk more about it next time it's a really interesting subject especially Safety Dance couple references I want to give you their cutting me off here but guess what came up with the saying if you don't have high blood pressure you shouldn't worry about your sodium intake and not that I believe that study more than any other because I'm very skeptical but also you have for a while

another shout-out to William McGee

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