Cooking Issues Transcript

Episode 125: Milk & West African Cuisine

this is Chris Young co-author of modernist cuisine do you want to learn cutting-edge cooking techniques you could buy modernist cuisine where you can save yourself $450 and check out our new free website chefsteps.com you were listening to Heritage Radio Network. Org a non-profit member supported radio station 1 million strong with folks tuning income over 200 country we are education we are entertainment we are the future of food is our membership Drive become a member and support us while receiving invites special discounts and a membership card we need your support visit our website and click the Donate button to become a member today thank you for believing in us and enjoy the show

y'all today sorry I wasn't able to do it last week live from Senegal but you know how sometimes these things work is in Philadelphia attending a conference by our good friends David Michael's flavors in food chemistry folks down in Philadelphia

food Innovation seminar today and the stash is there also Jack his Mia today but would you have Joe thank goodness he do to you I think for the first time ever maybe in the studio with Peter Kim is at what's your title of their executive director of the Museum of food and drink and we ate oh yes the founder I was at what's my other title mission of sure you have it memorized our mission is to change the way people think about food and inspired day today curious about what we eat and why and why do we need

making water Museum devoted to this and watching TV right so in this Museum it's not going to be as someone that wants to ask me if you know a long time ago are we just going to be looking after you know shellac two pieces of bread or some sort of plastic sushi with stuff like that going to be looking to hear you know little boxes this is going to be like me sometimes I just grabbed it like like Willy Wonka's chocolate factory but with an educational focus and why have most other food at museums Wisconsin White why do you find them I lacking why are they laughing there so they try to cover everything in food and drink which you know as you know very well the covers that said that covers a lot of ground and so most add will be actually focus on specific topics instead and the other is I think you know a lot of a lot of food museums really end up being corporate sales

and that's something we're really not going to be sweet good to hear a good to hear these words out of out of Peters mouth we hope to have this Museum in an actual brick-and-mortar location and how many years around five years start with a large donation of money or a large donation of a collection right so they start with that kind of that kind of a nut they simply is an idea but I think you know that the great part about this idea is that a lot of people like the subject so we're hoping to we're going to be going to be pestering and soliciting for the museum more and more as time goes on I just wanted our listeners to know that the project is still going great guns slamming forward not in a way that people outside might see

but that there is actually a lot of work going on and hopefully you know can't talk about it much right now and hopefully good news in 3/4 months maybe if possible and tell you what the bad news is it wasn't good news because he was also a volunteer in the Peace Corps and Cameron correct interesting ly if we have time because of course, too. Experimentation with cot over on the east of Africa right side by side from being the executive director of the Museum of food and drink and a an accomplished Spanish style guitar player is a lawyer and so you know probably shouldn't Cop 2

illegal drug use in in this country

I guess technically if it's a schedule 1 narcotic and not allowed to consume in any country is that true I'm not sure how it works well maybe you can talk about the experiences of some guy named meter meme that you were sitting next to Enterprise in East Africa later just feel free to call them into 718-497-2128 that's 718-497-2128 ok first question in from William about milk for a dollar fifty nine a gallon at her local store that's crazy milk should not cost a dollar 49 a gallon a lot of money as they haven't figured out a way to screw their system in the people making it Nick how so hard that the milk is actually only worth a dollar 50 90 gallon maybe someone

mislabeled it I've done that like I walked into the store once and passion fruit where labeled per pound instead of for each this was back when I was in your just graduated from college I had no money and so I bought every passion fruit in the store for like unbelievably low price and the person I was a rooster one person have two under the price you put on the thing and they did now I should have just purchased to passion fruit that price and let them recoup their mistake but it's not when you have no money and you and you love things like if she know if you feel more of a justification for a gherkin people around like that you taught him a valuable lesson and precision with their pricing I did I'm sure they didn't give a crap

Stop & Shop back in New Haven I'm going back to the soup I've never know no question was are there any drawbacks to freezing whole milk will the texture consistency or taste be adversely affected I would think since it has much less milk fat than cream that the ice crystals wouldn't affect it so much thanks can't wait till the kickstarter torque is available and I actually so it's interesting question William

now there are a lot of studies out there and what happens if I haven't tasted and have time to actually do the test and see what I need to do tasting what what happens is that the me a fat globules in homogenized milk are altered by the freezing process and so it's possible that you will get different and in fact there's some studies I didn't have time to sit through the mall that's a bunch of stuff out there on this but a lot of them are older so I couldn't get the full text of them they weren't in the in the date in the database that I was searching so I couldn't get the actual nitty-gritty of it but yeah so when you freeze especially if you're going through multiple freestyle Cycles which is going to happen unless something's totally frozen to depends on how much wood do you say get in the in the fridge you can alter the fact lobule side now if you alter the fact lobule size you will alter mouthfeel and you will alter possibly you know how it works what weather it's going to you know the Fatima glomerate more when you when you heat it I would think that it's going to be relatively

small affect you know when you're using the milk in cooking situations where curdling might not be a problem and it might not even have an affecting in a curdling situation but yes technically it is affected and although I apologize that I don't have more information on that I came across and this is one of the reasons I'm actually late is because when I'm researching something I guess I can in my real life when I'm researching things I go off on tangents and found a very interesting tangent session going to try and later we have a question about pregnancy and eating later but there's a study on freeze freezing and thawing human breast milk and this is a actually very important because we know most mothers who breastfeed also at least that I have met you know will also express some of their breast milk and freeze it for later use this way if they're at work you know and caregiver can

I feed the actual breast milk to the child or an alternate saying is that you know the mom then can sleep a little bit longer at night and the dad can wake up in the middle of the night and feed the already expressed breast milk you know natural breast milk to the baby right so you know you can either refrigerate that the milk or you can I freeze it now so the question is does freezing the breast milk do anything bad to the milk and and others also important other countries actually because there's a thing called the human milk Banks human milk Bank you know mothers who are lactating continue to lactate and express milk and then donate it to donate it to hospitals so that you know babies that are born early let's say and maybe that did the mother's milk doesn't come in right away they can feed this you know actual human milk to babies that couldn't otherwise I would be a great idea right

the freezer to preserve it so what happened well it turns out that aside from the structure of the fat you know changing like I said I said it would the actual fat level in the milk as it's fed to the babies decreases substantially on freezing and along with that the protein of Hannibal in the milk decreases not as much as the fact the factor decreases significantly you know but that the protein in it as well can decrease in the fiery is this that on freezing the fat globules agglomerate when they glomerate you know they're not as well dispersed in the liquid phase

on Stine write the the fat preferentially sticks to the relatively hydrophobic walls of the plastic vessels that breast milk has invariably stored in they didn't touch touch touch glass cuz it's not using starting glass right so the fat the fat sticks predominantly to the side thing and so the remaining liquid is relatively depleted in fat and that some of the proteins also are bound in with the fat and it here to the Fowler and so you're also somewhat reduced in the protein levels as a result and and turns out that it's statistically significant

interesting right now so I don't know really what to make of that the name of the study should you choose to look at it is and I my iPad side that I should no longer be able to read so it turned out early human development is called analysis of the influence of they also tested pasteurization but I didn't read that section is my patch freezing thawing and other processes on human milk macro nutrient concentrations by Viera at all in 2011 the reason a reason not to pasteurize a human breast milk is that it activates the bile salt stimulated lipase which is greatly responsible for the digestion and absorption of fat in newborn infants to Patrick decreases the maximum utilization of the delivery human milk that's basically a direct quote

oh yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah I'm just saying that you know it's not saying that you did that you're not getting you know all the benefits it's just that there's not going to be quite as nutritive I thought so recently heard my story about that I've always had for years and I never gone back and done the hard core research which is what you should always do before you make a statement people say well should I consume breast milk make sure I who should should I consume alcohol while I'm lactating that's a question people ask and my response has been well looky figure that human milk although it has fat is mostly water Vasily mostly water and therefore you would assume that the alcohol content of breast-milk is relatively similar to the mother's blood alcohol level blood alcohol level let's say you know that they were you know on the limit their .0 5.05%

so assuming that the blood that the milk has a roughly similar alcohol concentration of .05% alcohol in my mind from a from an actual ethanol level concentration that's roughly zero 0.5% that would mean 50 mg milligrams per hundred milliliters is opposed to a glass of wine which is you know like let's say it's 12% alcohol that's 12000 mg per milliliter right so roughly zero or talking about

no sorry a hundred twenty thousand so 35 you know what milligram should be roughly zero so here's the story right it's it it what is true is that human breast milk does roughly correlate with blood alcohol level right and so that for a woman that the consumes roughly at 3:35 3003 or so a little more of the less grams of alcohol per kilogram of body weight

alcohol level of Lake Pointe free your milk will be roughly Point 3.35 someone in their right percent so they was right when I said however it turns out there's a study that was published in 2000 that shows that that small amount of alcohol in the breast milk can actually have an effect what they studied was sleep the Sleep patterns of babies and so that were fed in this study was they they had mothers and they expressed breast milk your with Medela and then over the course of two different testing days they either took that milk and added 35 mg 400 mL of alcohol to the breast milk bottle or didn't and it turned out that the ones that they said the

alcohol to did not sleep as well and didn't have as much activity during their waking hours is the ones that didn't so you know it's only one study I haven't seen it replicated since 2000 on her way to the information is still there but it's interesting to note that that that's out there so Alex from Toronto rice and Dave need Jesus Carlos I'm still catching up on back podcast to write in because of Dave story about the person rapping out loud and episode 83 so I was talking about how your people rapping out loud and how they suck that's what I was talking about my wife and I recently visited New York and probably the strangest thing about our trip was how many people we saw singing as they walk the streets or waited for subway trains

just casually singing along we wondered if this is some kind of special New York thing the Broadway equivalent of La waiters hoping to be discovered by an Asian or director judging by your reaction to the rapper apparently not what we saw at least a dozen people doing this on a four-day visit our favorite was a girl practicing her ballet moves in the subway totally unselfconsciously Waiting for a Train weird yes it is weird and and it is quite, here I don't know what the hell it is what I think it is I think it's that when you live here first. I remember years ago and I might have mentioned this in the other episode like I was learning to try and play bagpipes and they told me just go outside and play because just you know cuz what else you can do you live in New York if you can't practice anything in private need a private place in New York you can do anything you have an apartment you probably have family or roommate there you know you don't have a basement you don't have a garage you don't have a backyard woohoo what the hell you going to do you know if you're going to play bagpipes you know what do you do if there's no real choice and so same thing goes with a bad rapping or bad

are you that stuff is that you said you have no place to do it you go outside to do it and furthermore I think they're like a living in such a big busy City strangely dehumanizes all the people around you and they become like trees or shrubs you tend to stop thinking of his people and then so you're not embarrassed about sitting in front of them because they're not human beings to you are you positive that there is a correlation between population density and bad public rapping possibly possibly think that everybody is just crazy here to like I hope there's a lot of crazy going on New York City people everyday I think that's a day but there's just so many people around there's just got to be more crazies right when you're walking around the city view everyone is as kind of like a like a blur but you know any way they went to New York and

trip to New York we found that after three years of trying we are expecting a baby which is nicer New York did the did the deal the counter doesn't quite back this up when I get partial credit to the Bangkok Daiquiri and Son of a peach that we drank at Booker and Dax bar Good Times well thanks thanks I'll take that I'll take that credit where it where the man wouldn't say that we're at and I would have anything like the awesome New York bar scene here in Toronto but perhaps I'm just underwear the best of Dave Chang just open free restaurants in Toronto any plans to expand the booker and Dax Empire let's put it this way I don't know

Jose no I won't say Yes evil evil emperor vibe that I can bring to whatever I did to me someday that's my goal now that's my new goal Evil Empire by be okay but I guess it's about you no longer able to enjoy her favorite drink by the way that's a phrase and I pride myself on being well-versed in slang an idiom I mean it's kind of you know I do I never heard it before your that was for up the spout is a British informal according to the Oxford English Dictionary for one broken I ain't no longer working which hopefully that's not what we mean in the case or two of a woman pregnant but according this is possibly related to the other thing like seeing how you're broken by getting pregnant because I think it was maybe an unwanted pregnancy in the pack clearly not in this case and it's lost that meaning and 3rd

Pawn your stuff off you can say it's gone up the spout I wouldn't I wouldn't stay with whatever she usually drink white wine and Caesars Caesars possibly a Canada specific drink basically it's a bloody Mary with clam juice know that that's a drink also known as a Clam Digger or a bunch of other things we clam diggers and when I normally heard by judge Clamato which I love saying that word Clamato tomato tomato tomorrow is fine but Clamato juice that just sounds weird, I wish I wish we all know that the mr. peanut with monocle is one of the most action figures and all of you know and all of whatever those people are called Spokes and spokes characters right I mean like

peanut with monocle simply dashing team for the museum and they took a freaking peanut which is ridiculous looking thing you know I need a peanut it's like it's like if you squeeze the hell out of a golf ball and I colored it beige and made it dirty that's a peanut really put a top hat and monocle and all the sudden it's like amazing that very same conversation was Grimace who is the opposite of classy what the heck it is like kind of prototypical schlub

I choose you drink white wine and Caesars I finished by the way if you're not going to drink alcoholic drinks and she likes Bloody Mary those kinds of things that's terrific because they don't have that much of a perception of alcohol so it like that hardest things to do you know master or the ones that are heavily alcohol flavored bourbon drinks likes things that are if she likes things like that they're relatively strong flavored you can easily make you know a virgin version of that if you're going to use any sort of fresh plan product obviously pasteurized shitt by the hell out of it you don't want to get you know anyone sick but they're Clamato juice of a cell has been you know he passed Horizon so it's okay so if you know so you can use it so I mean not be an ideal the white wine obviously you can't you know drink the white wine but you could do any sort of you know acidic price some people say like white cranberry juice Adult Swim

may I think they take the key thing or Fashions Rose wondering if you suggest either some other recipes or somewhere to start looking for serious drinks which happened to contain no alcohol and easy to make it home I tried making a peach sipping vinegar based on recipes for other fruits that I found online but that was a bust it just tasted gross any thoughts I'm hoping to find something with enough complexity that will make a satisfying to ship for a long time and I think that's the key by the way is the shipping for a long time because that's what you know kind of separates an alcoholic drink that you don't sound too hard at least you're not supposed to be with me I might but not supposed to vs. you know on the one hand the reason why coriander the coriander seared especially if you make it spicy if you increase the spice level of a drink or the kind of spice impact of the drink it tends to

shift towards a more sipping drink right so that's why the coriander syrup which is more akin to let's take ginger ale right I love ginger ale ginger ale as hard as you can Sprite right I don't pounce I say you were going to answer right you don't count ginger beer as hard as he pound ginger ale right so ginger beer good candidate for a non-alcoholic drinks that you can sit for a while because you were going to take it in small doses but the other key is it that you can't do that by making something that you the reason you're taking small doses that you don't want to drink it but which is why ginger beer is such a good candidate and that you know if you're probably done with out with that with them making into a soda would like some lime as a good candidate because it stays good tasting but you take it in small doses you're not like

so you could do that but the other thing is that I think you know it's very difficult having try to do this for you know the way you can make special drinks the other thing you can do to make and make drinks more Super Bowl and I hesitate to use because I don't like these kinds of things myself but it's just make them physically sick so drinks that contain purees 10 to go down slower but if you like them at all tend to be enjoyable and it's especially good in the summer months is there as they come up so you can do like frozen things things like smoothies and you know she'll feel good about the theoretical health benefits if she's getting from them and also be sipping them slowly so I hope this is somewhat helpful what you think Peter did you have any I had a whole boatload of

weather if you concentrated those flavors that could become something with sippable red Sorrel not to be confused with wood store or the Herb Sorrel Hibiscus flower and you know it's used in Africa where it's negative it's used a lot in the Caribbean and Mexico who are naturalized and makes a fantastic beverage the bisap that I had in Africa was of higher quality than the dried stuff that I get here but I have used stuff here and it's good you make like you make a tea that she make a delicious also they make a delicious bass up jelly in in West Africa least in Senegal and it's amazing because it has a textured apple butter but with that really tart acidic fruity thanks. Would be great make a tea out of it sweeten it and then actually piss up in ginger works and also gets up and mint works or all three or all three together and feel like a combination of

VSOP and ginger to make a really great drink that could go on the shipping if you make it a little bit weaker than It's A pounder and if you make it a little bit you know I have your in flavor than it's more of a sipper but the great thing about it is that if you're a fan of the flavor which I am you don't Tire of it when you're drinking it you know you can drink you can make a good bit of it could call Peter I don't mind the question is about a coffee I do not have an espresso machine would not be able to justify the expense of buying any new equipment would love to be able to make phone milk for a weekend coffee I tried to look for Solutions on coffee cake and various other websites but I've had no luck I did find a video or someone seem to be able to make a decent phone with the little ones you can buy at Ikea but I've been unable to replicate this either either way they identical Gadget might be more expensive one that Cooks Illustrated recommends what am I missing is steam an essential part of the process am I not getting the right temperature or just using the wrong that's with a hold of milk is there a stabilizer that might help

the milk is cold but I can't seem to help keep the milk out to even moderately drinkable temperature is like 60 Celsius and keep the phone or the phone the milk at higher temperatures the coffee geek shirts laugh at me and say I am Sol any ideas but here's the issue

it like many things you know what else has another question on on on coffee makers that got to put that one off till till next time. But the deal is this the coffee coffee geek was one of the early websites that introduced me so you know those who have been making coffee for a while you know like the art movement kind of came out of Seattle in the late 90s I guess 1990s that right means Harmony look back you know David Schomer from the vatche was the first person I knew about who you talkin about it and I bought his book but you know up with whatever it's called professional Barista technique whatever is where he explains it and amazing stuff but to get that the lot you know and by the way I'm talking about her last day or two pictures in that you may fight by me of doing the milk and the highest form of it you don't even touch the top it all it's just how you pour the milk makes it in order to do it you need a very specific textured milk right that is serious but that's extra milk is also

textured milk but call the microphone and so there's a lot written in coffee geek about how to achieve microphone and that particular type of microphone is produced by steaming right and trying to create that in any other way I mean you might be able to come up or I might be or you might be someone might be able to come up with it with a similar texture product by doing a host of other things to it but there's no simple way right now here's the question is that the best tasting phone I don't know it's a taste of foam is espresso the best Taste of coffee I think it is but other people like other forms of coffee making so what I would do is stop trying to make latte art style foam in any other techniques and just find a foaming technique that you like that makes a taste that you like you know what you're a very severe doubts that you're going to be able to it without a lot of experimentation and we could stabilize it and whip it but you know the microphone

is a very specific very dense bubble size very wet phone and you know right meme I just figured out where she's going to use it a different way but I will think more about it and maybe talk about it more when I talk about your coffee question coffee maker question later I came in and he last week unfortunate was here as in Senegal and he gave us some really interesting hazelnuts does real quick things to hazelnut we all know hazelnut swirl around it but they're not all around there's a variety call Dadu chili hazelnut they did long almost looks almond and looks like Woody on the outside so John drop by some of these are likely direct super like old cultivar Heritage heirloom variety of a hazelnuts and he drop by some roasted ones and unroasted one that was talking about the what happens to the development of flavor and hazelnuts that as as their roasted so says I

got back yesterday I tasted them but I haven't had time to do a lot of experimenting some next week John I'm going to go more into about these differences but you guys should take a look at these two chili hazelnuts are supposed to have thinner skin and therefore be less bitter than there their they're smaller around her Brethren but there are susceptible to certain diseases that's why they're not grow much if you want to research it while I took before I can get back to you guys go to Holmquist Orchards where they grow them in in Washington okay

Robin Wright in about meat grinders Dave please say some words about meat grinders I'm primarily using a meat grinder for making dog food from chicken turkey and rabbit parts so I need something powerful enough to not bog down so grinding soft bonds with a fill hole that will accommodate something as large is a chicken leg without me having to further invest in a meat cleaver to cut the parts that are small enough to fit in the Chute I made a mistake of purchasing and Lem number 5.0 horsepower motor grinder sold by your local sporting goods Big Box store it is underpowered it is underpowered the fuse had to be reset frequently even though I'm not forcing to meet through and it is overheating and smoking it requires disassembly to unjam it and was a waste of money is going back to the store tomorrow without breaking the bank what do you recommend it will serve me well thanks for the money radio show all your Robin okay here's the deal yo Pierre you might be asking yourself why would they want to grind grind the bones

I am asking myself that question calcium suppose there's a movement called the barf diet for dogs need quite a bit the Bell Tolls to the dog taking all things cats also had to be careful not to do not to do with cooked bones because cooked bones are very sharp and can damage the insides of your animal and then there's the debate of whether or not there's microbial problems do in raw food diet when you feed it to him about it I've never thought about this but I did some I did some research after the ileum that you looked at that you had the OEM number five quarter horsepower one which sells on Amazon 496 99 has a quarter horsepower power motor

it's pretty small motor the good news about that grinder that you have you hate is that the gears are all metal and so they're really tough and it's all stainless all that's really tough but that motor is underpowered until it's going to jam overheat and the fuse will blow as or it's not really probably the fuse is probably the thermal overload in it so that's probably what's happening so the solution to that is they do make a larger motor one they make a .375 horsepower which is only $70 more $267 you can go get and that might be a solution I've heard other people say that that one grind chicken bones better you know then you would like without breaking the bank that's the problem the larger ones can do it so the Westin the Westin number 22 professional on Amazon for $551 everyone says that grinds do chicken like nobody's business right but you know that's well over twice almost three times the cost of the one that you had

did you go I need a store on eBay now if you look at the STX turboforce 3000 Series it is a 3000w admit all types of people ask someone how they rate it so I'm assuming the motor is there actually talking shaft horsepower power at the shaft right which is different from the input power into the machine right because Motors on 100% efficient so the question is how you do it one 740 something watts is 1 horsepower right so these guys say that the STX turboforce 3000 is 3000 watt but that's a load of malarkey that's you know that's the motor as my dad would always say that's the motor like as it's about to explode from burning out like when you're holding the shaft and plugging it in and drawing all the current that you possibly can and everything's blowing up and dying right or Pekin post death Powers he calls it

amazing Back to the Future doc you know yeah yeah yeah right in reality this is actually closer to 3/4 horsepower in real life but that's still significantly more powerful than the one you have it has some plastic gears but they claim that these plastic gears don't break it does have a guarantee it also has something you might be interested in called a reverse switch so that you can reverse the Machinery to unjam it without disassembling it so if you do jam it there you go now there are a number of people on the reviewing thing to say they've browned chicken bones and then there's number people whose call BS on that and say supper doesn't grind chicken bones that well right so what those guy says it's a really grind chicken bones you got a freeze debone your thighs or legs free V I break with a hammer and then grind them in which is what they say to do but clearly you don't want to do this because you don't want to believe it up you say with a meat cleaver so you know I'm not sure where to go with that but

it is on Amazon it does have return policy so you might be able to you know test your luck it is even cheaper than the one you already had Alex Roden different Alex Roden with questions about Moka pots do you know Moka pot Peter on the stove and they're little and they they make coffee actually know the gender knot espresso people make that mistake I mow the top is its own kind of stuff it's not an espresso so Alex has questions on the mocha process but I think what I'm going to do Alex's fold your question on Mocha pods into the other question on coffee that the other Alex at and we'll talk about him both on the next show since I apparently my time here is drawing nigh right now right in any problems with infusing chopped hazelnuts me to Ellis Haven or so it's always happen to me into cream with an isi

adjust infusion without heat and I decide to the nuts aren't that tourists usually you do a heat infusion or better yet grind them and make like a nut milk that's the way I would do it grind and make a nut milk and then strain the stuff out and they got the best way to going to go I don't know that I say is going to be the technique to use of that but I'm probably wrong with you I have not although that's not true I mean I may be aerated chocolate before it with a with a vacuum machine but what I'll do is go look at Heston Blumenthal has done a lot of work with that has a recipe online you need a vacuum machine and a way to set it set in the freezer but it's not technically difficult I've never actually done it though but heston's recipes out there for all to read so you'll go check out if you have more questions or problems on it back on it. You got Tony a carry on as a question in there about on the Twitter feed about freezing and thawing to increase or change the flavor of juice extraction a freezing and thawing ruptures

call him so therefore will theoretically increase the yield of juice but I've never done an actual test on it I will look up over the course of the week hopefully whether or not whether or not there's any studies that I can publish and I'll talk about my experiences of the differences in flavor of Susan's like Frozen thawed lemons and also its effect on stringency and tan and things like Persimmons where you can clearly reduce the tanning in the expectancy by freezing and thawing but that's but slightly different from what it doesn't the Jews that's just the flavor change from overall freezing and thawing and other questions are just going to put it right away all right I want to make large format clear ice at home have a chamber vac rotovap liquid nitrogen and a crappy home freezer you know what Square One rip the top off of it use hot water poured if you can use relatively pure hot water right pour it into the warm water you don't have to

medical downtown put it hot in here freezing to screw all your stuff the reason for hot less dissolved gases right right right it's not strictly speaking this area but you know it's it for you know a number of days should take like two days maybe they dated two days test it right what's going to happen is that the energy is going to go into the ice preferential through the top and so you going to freeze from the top down there for all the stuff at the top will be clear as you expel out the various impurities at the Ice Water layer that's in the bottom then pull it out of the freezer before it totally free to solder you can let these totally saw the bottom of its going to be crappy let it temperature out pop it out of the igloo soft any bad parts are on the bottom only when it's temporary and Adolf Hitler do I have a 3 minutes

what do I have your 3 minutes

yeah right at 1 so I'm going to do is is that on the out of the show can we go to the actual commercial breaks we can play are sponsored by the way they are sponsored today is Joe

it is the chefsteps from Chris Young rice a Christian who has been a guest on the show before is one of the authors of modernist cuisine but not modest was being at home but it's an interesting little dig that he had your save the five hundred bucks that's kind of interesting little dick I just met with our friend Michael natkin yesterday book written by the way to all of our friends were winners at the James Beard last night including Wylie Dufresne brother-in-law Brooks Brooks Haley from Del posto Del posto itself and then a bunch of other people I don't have the folders in front of me but bunch of good people so I can talk to me to buy to say the writer for the aggravation website and also working with Chris on this project and so was talking to him about it maybe maybe we'll do some work with them some point but I found out that they respond to the show wheel of them great guys he know all all best all up but I love that little dig Rite

I figure they're targeting two very different markets there though yeah yeah by the way I hope I want to force him to come on the show today but he had to go back back home but I hope to get all of those guys may be back on the radio here at some point and then you guys can all have questions of them before I go to the last question so when I was in Senegal I think the most striking thing I'm just talkin food now write the most striking thing about the food was there seems to be a much more of a Continuum between the unfermented and the fermented in West African food then we would get in the states right so lot more fermented grain products like a lot more products of fermentation in all of their grades that your experience down a camera as well

will be fermented you know she s awesome Millet porridge called someday and in Senegal that is you know it's fermented Millet porridge and it served with fermented kind of thin milk yogurt on top and like a little bit of sugar and great and is a flavor that you don't get here or you know the main starches that will be made into pools at 8 or batters fermented and then and then cooked off you know so like various fermented foods and things like that but one of two things I had that's from Cameroon maybe you remember the name of it because I can't remember the name of it because I couldn't write it down and it was very interesting and it was it was manioc be like a rice cake yes had the texture of Mochi but it's fermented you have this what's the name of it

right okay so they have a real Bounty texture like Mochi right and they're fermented and they're like the first bite your like am I going to like this but there's freaking addictive yes but here's the interesting thing with a particular one I had had been you know made by the cook was House made and the particular fermented flavor this one was unlike most of the other fermentations that I've had in that it didn't taste like a lactic acid bacteria to me the one I had it tasted the most similar fermentation taste I could put on it was Salt Rising bread and salt to talk about Michelle before is like a very kind of like weird old like kind of rare bread techniques in the Appalachians where the main fermentation agent is clostridium perfringens what you normally is a foodborne you know illness patenaude pathogen cause a lot of problems but I'm with the one time I made salt raise bread one or twice if this had is that somewhere for me to flavor but I

cabinet time to research it yet but did you notice in Cameroon that they had a different kind of permit to flavor from other things or is it the same or research on that other thing you know that they they have so many fermented products over there first of all Senegal is predominantly Muslim right and in fact they had me serving alcoholic beverage at this event and didn't put a French translator next to me and so I was in a position to my French isn't my actions not good enough to immediately tell people to these people descended on us and then people started picking up the drink and drinking it was it was made with Mod which is numb a m a d d e r m a d r m a d e which is an amazing fruit from Altamonte switches in southern Senegal so Amazin fruit fruit has like kind of like taste like kind of passion fruit and like kind of got a lot of acidity more acidic part in The Way Lima start not in the way the password is Tarpon like

passion fruit in up with another tropical fruits like maybe someone a banana flavor in it and I made a juice out of it you are trying to do Booker and Dax buttload text I also like I strained it was really pure and mix it with rum fantastic I wish we could get the future anyway so they're picking you up in like one person doesn't spit like a Hostess next to me like wagging your finger back and forth like no no no no don't do that it's not poisonous you know when some of the people here aren't aren't aren't you know most of them they can have it but I was like what is going on in my life that I'm here in a Muslim country trying to serve alcohol to people like it's exactly like the worst thing that could happen but the drink was in fact delicious aneta to is the fermented seeds of a some acacia tree and it's amazing stuff the I forget that the genus name but the speech

it is Big Lo Bosa globosa but it has a taste and see if you've been a lot of Stu's like and like other things I T pajan which is like the traditional me know National Assembly station but it has in it it has the flavors of like coffee and chocolate and black bean so it's like really kind of answer it's a boiled in fermented the seeds and pods for met them and insulting looking bright fermented onion balls fermented fish is famous I get fermented conch yet which is amazing but all these four men to things but what people don't mean to Smells in the market can be overpowering but the food's aren't at all like that overpower and it just really I thought really delicious I really interesting unique flavors I'm definitely going to be working with them in the future

just up the fruits and vegetables. You're good stuff here so I just had the very like the smallest taste of it going to a Senegal and I hope to be going back it's at some point I think it's one of the most undiscovered collection of cuisines in the world I frankly you know what I mean is like that and that's the reason that we are doing this thing. Tom you know a friend of a friend of ours who you know how to restaurant Grand a car in Brooklyn is from Senegal and you know I'd spoken to him by organizing a series of trips couple years ago and he finally made it happen even though you know I have no I've been so busy I haven't done it but the basic idea is that in Africa when foreigners, they feed them non-traditional food because they assume that you know that you know Western you know when it was like your oath Euro and American style folks don't want the traditional food the right which is best

all right like people nowadays like people like myself or other like Astro Torres so you know I got you a tour as much as big thing they don't want fake food if I want french food I'll go to France fly somewhere I want to learn about the food is from their right so so there's that is showing people there that Outsiders respect the indigenous stuff and if that's what they should do and then there's the flip side is that we don't know hardly anything about it and there's a lot to learn there's as much diversity and interest and amazing stuff going on there as you know any one of the Asian cultures that everyone here knows all the minutiae of or any one of the European cultures everyone knows all the my new show that the food products from right and yet there's not the exposure to it and therefore not that level of Interest talked actually I tried to point out like look you know Ava in here in the US I was like take a look at Sean Brock who's been doing at eye-level work with you know specifically South Carolina stuff right and so he's doing some amazing work but that's you know not that much of a stretch because he's here

here and people respect that's going on I was like okay well you know look at 20 years there ten years ago even 10 years ago who thought about Danish food did you know all that stuff now all the raid why because of running would that be so I put my name is Epi up and I put Alex Alcala from dlm in Brazil who was like you know everyone in South America looked at what happened at that restaurant and how he's using incredibly local products to do this really high-end Works he's not doing French work to happen to have a couple local ingredients seems like using modern cooking techniques and use incredibly local ingredients in your bandages is it can't be copied you can't copy that restaurant somewhere else because you don't have access to the ingredients and goes for Noma same goes for Sean you know down in South Carolina is they have Cuisines that respected the world over and it can't be copied we need to go travel to have it and you know I said that this may seem irrelevant to you that says the people in a country where

you know a huge percentage of you know your population is suffering from problems like iron deficiency you know what I mean and other things but in fact we can you can you know you can generate some good Revenue if you know if you do it I don't know and of course introducing people to these these culinary sort of treasures around the world is one of the major goals of the Museum of food and drink damn it we'll talk more about maybe some of that if it was bailed out there feel bad stuff down and animals called that they use every part of the last question on the way out and then on the way out and we're going to play or a commercial break sponsors cuz I didn't go to work today

Greetings From Paris Leah for season of Top Chef has just ended here in France and I wanted to get your views on culinary competitions in general sorry to sound like a good question right more specifically the top chef or Iron Chef light shows really Crown good cooks or is it more of a mix of luck contestant personality excetra what do you think of the professional competitions such as a or the Moa athletes that stands for something made me out something over your assets for any sort of the whole list of crafts that you can have them ofm friends and others also feel free to say bad things about are Betis

people in the food world that I don't have a compunction just saying bad things about because he doesn't care whether or not American say bad things about him and be he is a huckster charlatan and says crazy false things all the time and I always hold up against him Harold McGee who is you know awesome so they're kind of like opposites are BTS who thinks that cooking an egg in an oven is a good way to measure how it responds to temperatures which by whatever because then you know I only have a couple minutes to answer your regular question so my thing on this is is that contest

contest clearly measure something the question is what do they measure right so you know one thing you can look at is you know which ones do chefs watch right so chefs I used to I don't know if you still watch Iron Chef like they like it right that was one of the very first contest shows that chefs actually wanted to be on right so Wily who you know didn't was like I had a food TV but he said that I always use voice isn't anything like the people that I'm talking about it's just I don't know why I don't know when you got the opportunity to do I was like yes I want to do it everybody has respect for the you know I guess I haven't spoken to rent and it is a mixture of Personality right because a lot of it's about you know you have to talk to the judges and since you know there's some sail ship no sales near sailing list

turn on when you're talking but it is also is real cooking task and you know you do interesting stuff and it's respected you know a lot of stuff done Top Chef Masters in the reason they do it isn't necessarily because they like the format of it of the show it mean to be very kind of blunt you get a big pop in the restaurant after you do the show whether you win or you lose right so it's good for business to do it and it's good that you've done it that allows you to do other things so it's there's an advantage to do you know and what does it measure I don't know that you know

you know does it measure like how much you would like the food that someone cooked had were they thinking about the Pooh beforehand you know what I mean so it when you put in a situation where Iron Chef for those who don't know OK iron when you do Iron Chef it's not like someone's like walks up to you and says witchetty grubs and then it's the first time you've heard that this widget e grubs and then you had you create all these amazing dishes in an hour from witchetty grubs right because if they could actually do that then I would you know I would quit my job and spend all of my time just borrowing it their knees in fact not what happened what happens on Iron Chef is your given a list of three or four I feel it is possible things that I could be and you practice those recipes a bunch of times to make sure you can clock in under an hour that's what happened now there's an extreme advantage to the Iron Chef because they're used to the kids

in a lot of inefficiency comes from not being used to a kitchen but that would they have it so

I don't like it. But still you know it's a lot different from cooking in your own element with ingredients that you choose yourself and he seems like chopped where you have no idea what's going on are extremely different someone winning in that circumstance isn't the same thing as someone who would make the most are the most delicious food at their restaurant or even at your house because at your house time management isn't as important as it is an iron to Iron Chef has his much about time management as it is about anything else because an Iron Chef the goal really is to produce a bunch of in Crescent impressive crap in an hour you know what I mean so it's like really a high Management in which is actually a fantastic measure the shift needs good time management not necessarily the best indicator of who is in absolute terms the best cook right there all measuring different things and you have to look nice things like the I also you know think that most outside accolades or kind of absurd because again they're also not necessarily measuring things that might be in poor

in the real world that's it mof is pretty badass you can pretty much guarantee that there are a badass Bocuse D'Or the Bocuse d'Or

you're a badass I mean like that's all there is to it because it's incredibly incredibly difficult right so it's someone climbs Mount Everest without oxygen right are they the world's best human being now that pretty bad ask me I think it's I think personally don't try and climb climb Mount Everest and I also myself wouldn't want to spend the amount of time of my life it would take to get close to winning any one of these competition if I even could you know but they are a measure of badassery what do you think I mean the thing is this speaks your point I'm not a great cook you know I can practice something and do it well eventually end up precisely why I didn't this situation it was actually a Sutter Home Burger competition the price of $100,000 I came in second place like lost by one point out of 235 so when you get just like a boatload of merlot I got nothing

first place to $500 is how a measure of how well you play the rules of that particular game about the pattern in the speech and kind of what you do and how well you could remove the judges and to be honest like it depending on like some things are Judges are incredibly biased you know and you can just have a bad judge and you can have that so you know

they yes they do measure something but take take you know anything like that with a grain of salt I personally detest competitions unless they are like the only competition is that that I kind of enjoy our ones that are quantitative in nature that you can win or you can lose you know what I mean like who has anyone in Ferris myself in front of my kids and my kids have vowed to Revenge me later and you know soccer game who gets the most goals coming in the commercial break and now with Kobe new shoes

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