Cooking Issues Transcript

Episode 119: Acetobacter, Eggs, & Ice

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cookie cookie she's coming to you late and lied in the back of Roberto's Pizzeria. Joe back from lunch or Joe how you doing I'm doing great as long as we have no Jack today because Joe thought he was handed all by himself now that he's coming back to dool how was the tour it was really really great went to Watts awesome Saison ever been to before Chicago Memphis Buffalo got to hang out and I play some tunes when you were in Buffalo know I ate buffalo wings though they're okay cuz you take your roast beef and yeah the juice to dipping sauce there but they put it on a roll and the roll is covered in salt and Caraway which is the wet part of beef on weck and it's a local

kind of Buffalo thing any of that area Northern New York and I don't know why the heck it hasn't spread because that stuff is delicious got to try it I guess next time you're in buffalo buffalo wings whatever I guess you have to have some because that's what that they're known for because they put the word buffalo in it but if they've called it Buffalo beef on weck maybe it would have sold more yeah that's the marketing was off on that one. Do you want some corned beef on weck what about like like Buffalo roast beef sandwich that sounds good so how many dates do you play

I'm we it was six a writ of a 6 on the way down then we went to South by Southwest we played five shows in 3 days at South by Southwest and then drove back up in 3 days from I was in Arkansas by two days ago was crazy generally yes but I don't think that it doesn't happen the store are they going to hate it energized yeah it's sometimes a little hard some people just mad at a really famous rapper who shall remain nameless was Busta Rhymes who went to go play you know up near where he lives and Busta Rhymes with mad because you know all these kids were just sitting here listening to it to you know him rap and he's like bus was like what the hell get up you because I think you know that feeling up there from the vermonters is that if we don't want to get up and dance

you're not enjoying the music I don't think they understand that given take it's hard for someone to give their best concert if there's not a lot of movement in the audience not saying exactly when it's your responsibility to kind of go off as hard as you can no matter what the audience is like but the fact of the matter is that the audience is Intuit they're going to get a better performance. That's human beings your person Felix to this in a ziplock bags people SC Johnson a family company so we pop Sleepypod we pop and Suki lot from the number to send someone was one of his supporters on the kickstarter because we've got a lot of flak over using the Ziploc bags were doing low temperature cooking low temperature cooking both of you I guess what I'm talking about its cooking usually in a water bath at a very controlled temperature and usually those temperatures are somewhere in the range of 54 to like 65 degrees Celsius occasionally hire for

containers for vegetables and what not but anyway so cooking low temperature for the control water bath with Ziploc bags miss the technique for a long time and there's been a lot of kerfuffle over it and I got word from SC Johnson wax but you're going to have to stay tuned because I got to call her I got to deal with color are on the are you doing I just wanted to follow up a little while ago about I use something like I smoke weed but I'd like to stop the heck out of it and okay here's help Pop Rocks are made so what they do what they do is they take sugar and they heat it and turn it into

the candy temperatures letting rid of what's it called pressure with a carbon dioxide at those temperatures and then they let it set under extreme pressure then when the when they release the extreme pressure bam it explodes into pop rocks and so kind of the crystal type you get is the crystal type you get you can grow mold in style crystals in a pop rocks kind of a technology so if you're okay with the crystal structure of Pop Rocks then you're you're okay now you can you correct should say you could make I think there's nothing there's nothing that it in the chemistry of isomalt that leads me to believe otherwise you could make Pop Rocks from isomalt

so you could do the pop rocks with isomalt you might put the salt in before you might put the salt in afterwards in the form of a powder but there's nothing to leave me believe that you can't do that the problem is is I don't see any way that you as an individual even I can't and I've I've tried but leave me I don't think that we can make Pop Rocks on our own I think there's company is it show neutral pop rock Sugar Sugar that you're supposed to then mix your own flavors and afterwards Chef rubber I think sells them I don't know what their batch size is there's no reason why you couldn't call them and say if I'm willing to buy whatever your minimum batch size is could you just make it with isomalt once ruin their equipment what I'm saying so it's just convincing whatever you see the flavors have to be heat stable that's the thing so if you're going to put a flavor into it other than Salt which is clearly keep stable it has to be a heat stable flavor but then again there's nothing in it

I'm going to put him something crazy that they think they're not going to go to clean out of their equipment I don't see a reason why they wouldn't do it for you assuming that you bought an entire back from them I don't know what they're what their size is now you see they'll charge you more for it but I have not figured out a way to do it on your own in a safe manner but so far I've never tried it but you know what I've done my car but I know I think it's how I forget it's been a long time since I looked it up I think it's higher the highest I've ever said something I was CO2 is 125 psi when I was doing I was doing Jell-O shots and I set them at 125 psi and sharp bubble but it's not but you remember when you're when you're doing Candy the temperatures of the candy or much much higher

you could slip you can try it you could the problem is you can't do it in normal soda bottle cuz soda bottle can't withstand that kind of pressure right are you sorry sorry temperature here is what you could do you can melt if you have a Cornelius keg promise Cornelius kegs only go up to about 125 psi so what you would do is you melt out your candy and then you know you keep it hot then you'd throw it into your Cornelius keg put under tire pressures that Cornelius keg can take and then shake it back and forth to agitated and let it set I think that's safe right because it's all stainless is down at the bottom it's going to be a nightmare to clean but I don't think a hundred and twenty-five PSI is going to cut it mean you can look it up and see but I don't think a hundred twenty-five PSI is going to cut it

eggs if you do try it remember check to make sure you think it's safe beforehand because I'm just thinking it's off the top of my head but if you do try and you're successful at something never would want to know so please send it on in LOL thanks play on the Run by a family so the problem is is that SC Johnson got back to a grant Achatz because of a video he was doing it for Millennia using Ziploc bags and low temperature cooking and said don't do that at least that's what the word on the street is and by word on the street meaning Grant told me that so then after that there's a number of other chefs who were saying that you know their impressionism Ziplocs were unsafe to cook in X Y and Z and then because it became known the SC Johnson wasn't supporting it a lot of other people are wondering why it wasn't supported long story short I called up SC Johnson wax and S8

wax is a person who picks up the phone was like you know press that big giant oh my God so it's ask me a question that I need to ask one of my superiors about and they kept pushing that big red button I went up the chain until I finally got in touch with Michelle Johnson I think no relation I don't know I don't know whether she is a Johnson from the SC Johnson it is I don't know if she happens to be in the family so here's what I said to her she asked you know who it who from SC Johnson told me not to use Ziploc here's my exact email to her how did Michelle has not contacted by Jesse Johnson I want to get using zip locks in a low temperature cooking and the word on the street is that the SC Johnson does not support low temperature cooking Ziplocs probably because of the presumed contact with Grant here is what I know it's me writing Ziplocs are made of polyethylene with no plasticizers added Ziplocs have a minimum of residual solvents compared with other polyethylene food grade films I've used Ziplocs are rated by Jessie J for reheating foods and zip locks are not rated for boys

I merely because of structural Integrity issues not toxicity issues low temperature cooking uses thermostatically controlled water bath are accurate within 0.2 degrees Celsius and the applications using Zip Zip locks are always done at temperatures below 65 C because some low temperature recipes cook for as long as 3 days 72 hours up to 65° C some people think the bags will somehow become toxic after that length of cooking I disagree given these points I would like it I would like it if SC Johnson could put their official stamp of approval on the use of bags or explain why I shouldn't teach people this technique best Dave and here's what I heard back ready this is from this is from Miss Johnson here is what they are Ziploc this is directly from SC Johnson wax a family company Ziploc brand bags are designed to withheld being held in high temperature water including being

used up to 82° C for up to seventy-two hours boiling so that's it so I mean I wouldn't boil them but I gave her the I gave her the number 82 you so you know that's where she's it might go a little bit higher but there is direct they are okay with Ziploc brand bags designed with stand being held in high temperature water including being used up 282 for up to seventy-two hours bang baby bang bang There You Go safe to use according to the company safe to use as far as I know the one thing that I've cautioned on is that they are not good for long-term preservation I wouldn't count on them as being oxygen barriers in the way that you count on us another bag especially cuz you're not talking using a vacuum your packing at using of the water technique but that's good news right so someone please come back at me and tell me why I'm wrong call me an idiot I'm sure you will have another caller

8 a.m. and crude Brian San Francisco how are you have a recipe for Meyer lemon vinegar there and then throw them together for a few days and that of liquid starts bubbling then they strain out the solids and let the fermentation get in the open air and my question is is this is a pretty unique way of making vinegar I've never seen this this this before usually you know you have any wine is this is trying to create I guess a lemon wine first with sugar and some my questions are what do you do what do you think of this and can I just use Reg

Easter do I need special kind of yeast like champagne used or something like that all is it separately with onions and salt and pepper flakes are you thinking that this method for making like fruit vinegars

like this let it hadn't hit how much sugar should an East but I need to ask right well I mean as to what yeast to use mean I haven't study of the effect of different on vinegar production what happens if you take some form of sugar some form of fermentable you ferment into alcohol first right and then after that you acetobacter takes over and a seat of actor eats the alcohol that's produced and turns it into acetic acid which is vinegar that's why vinegar has a low alcohol content and that's why when you leave Wine open it turns to vinegar now the tricks with vinegar is it obviously if your alcohol level is too high then acetobacter can't work and if acetobacter can't work

then no vinegar right similarly if you use preservatives or agents in your fermentation that prevent it from turning that that prevent the growth of acetobacter no vinegar so you can go about it one is the more traditional two-step process where you take an alcoholic beverage and then fermented with a vinegar mother let you know or Let It Go naturally and produce vinegar that's two step process or you could do a 1 step process where you convert both the same as same time so for instance a 8 voucher is roughly a one-step vinegar process where you have different strains of yeast and bacteria and different strains of acetobacter making stuff now they're very particular strength in the seat of back there so they produce kombucha right it's not very acidic kombucha prepared to vinegar right so with their thing presume

they're adding enough sugar to it that they're getting the acidity level right now in a regular fermentation the yeast is vital to the that one particular used to use in the temperature at which you ferment is vital to the end result right now if you use up if you picture yeast with let's say like fleischmann's whatever you happen to have lying around and you like the result than the good thing is fleischmann's pretty consistent right but typically you wouldn't pitch beer with license because who would do that you know what I mean to get you go to home brew shop and you would get you know why you know something that you like like you get like you know I don't know some like you know what you said it's designed to do like a pale ale or whatever you're working on you know and you choose a temperature ratio you're working on and then they would write this one produces a lot of Esters at between the temperatures of 60 and 70 Fahrenheit based on that because you're not ever typically dealing with a fermentation it starts with such a high level of acidity as a

maceration so I don't know whether that's affect the Adam presumably everything's perfect mean yeah but I mean that means some used is going to be your you're changing how to use is going to react by increasing the acidity level mean I'm not nothing you're going to kill these but you're going to change it based on how much acidity you're you're adding oh and Elliott Elliott have no rights in that what it what it is saying such as to speak speak

Elliot Pappadeaux asks ideas in food what kind of used for the Meyer lemon vinegar so they don't know and ideas in food said montrachet is that montrachet like Elliott said thanks and that must be a yeast strain that I'm not familiar with champagne versus hyena hyena sitting there so there you have it so yeah so they're doing that and are doing a one-step fermentation but that works yes whether or not it's going to make you the best possible fruit vinegars that are no no I mean you know what you might want to do traditional format the fruit out first and then and then hit it with hit it with your acetobacter they're clearly also using wild acetobacter strange because they're not adding a vinegar mother to it unless they added some live vinegar that they already have the kick-off the fermentation did they do that

got to get alcoholic and off first and then and then has a vinegar mother going to be a lot of there's not going to be a lot of acetic acid fermentation at first because once you have a vigorous alcohol fermentation going is constantly producing carbon dioxide and the layer of carbon dioxide is forming on top of the fermentation will prevent acetobacter from growing cuz I see the back your needs oxygen that's why if you go to a Distillery they can have these giant Vats of things that are fermenting in the open-air without them turning to vinegar because under the constant production of carbon dioxide on the top birthday

in order to look up the bricks that you need to add to something I mean I would probably have somewhere in the area of like fruit juices are usually somewhere like 14 15 brick something like that so maybe somewhere in that range

Chris Cornell Road in before regarding caramelized Tomatoes I tried pressure cooking and I could recon at full pressure is 15 psi second bring home canned tomatoes for 40 minutes over the weekend I use 3 quarts of product which yielded to two quarts of Flesh in 1 quart of juice I only added the flesh to the pot with one on in one head of garlic and 3 grams of baking soda that was all I was looking for with caramelized tomato sauce or whatever this is more of an iced tea flavored soup will I be able to achieve the desired effect using the technique but adding time or lowering the pH well I'm assuming mean raising a PhD writing the baking soda to baking soda to Tomato to raise the ph when your pressure cooking and the reason to raise the pH in your pressure cooking all about what they do in Madras Cuisine for their butternut squash revered as they doing that thing is to buy raising the pH by making you more alkaline you are shifting the temperature which wire

reactions happen to a lower temperature such as those that happened inside of a pressure cooker and things do get appreciably brown in a pressure cooker do it tomorrow reactions over fairly short. Of time however tomatoes are an extremely extremely acidic product so a couple teaspoons of baking soda I don't think is going to cut it make it more caramelized in fact it's interesting if you look at it I was looking at the women's Christian Temperance Union cookbook from 1900 from Kansas City because of a separate thing I'm working on and what was interesting to me is that I looked at a couple of their tomato soup recipes and all the tomato soup recipes that use milk in them that have baking soda added in the reason to have baking soda added it is there is to decrease the acidity so that the milk won't curdle presumably cookbooks and try and steal ideas so

I don't think of the baking soda is going to help in that here's what I would do I would pre caramelize your potatoes Tomatoes potatoes. I would pretty caramelize your Tomatoes before you do anything I would just cut the tomatoes in half roast until you get rid of a lot of the liquid and they start turning kind of dark and caramelized and then blend those in to make your to make your product because I think you're going to need to just reduce the water enough to get it to get that care of my stuff before you make the soup and then pressure cook that thing could be delicious what do you think that let me know another question in this one is very interesting I love questions like this because I had not thought about it before unfortunately because it turns out it's a huge issue and I haven't thought about it before I'm not going to be able to answer it today but here it is I want everyone to be thinking about this is very interesting Mark templeman rights in Thai cooking issues crew from Philadelphia hear my questions about nanoparticles I seen a few articles here and there and I gather their food out of his that are used in some Industrial

when has flavor and texture and they may be dangerous to help I haven't seen anything that satisfactory explains what they are how they made so my questions are what are they at 1 could they be made or used in professional kitchens and what good would they be for thanks Mark templeman okay I have to admit I got so entranced with that thinking about the safety aspects of it that I haven't thought about how to make them yet or what they would be good for banana particle for those of you that don't know are just extremely small and usually very even sized particles make me made a bunch of different ways they can be made through like vapor deposition that goes from Vapor to to go to a solid very you know it very control ways which the particles are small they can be made

by grinding if you happen to have a grinding thing that they can grind well enough although that's near you don't I don't know when does that is normal they can be made about the easiest way I think that was we would ever be able to make them is by making emotions with very fine particle sizes in it then when something's in a motion form shifting it from a liquid to a solid so that the the the the droplets are emulsified in all of a sudden become a solid again so solid gel change right then breaking the emotion and you get the nanoparticles out and I think that's how the majority of the nanoparticles that in a separate I guess things like the titanium don't know how to make the titanium dioxide nanoparticles which are the ones that are used in toothpaste making some really bright and no end and they're used in sunscreen to Shield you from the Sun titanium dioxide nanoparticles anyway and I don't know how to do silver but other one that we be most likely to be able to make is Wonder based on sol-gel Transformations like that here's the issue that's interesting

I thought about I started researching kind of safety and nanoparticles because to be honest I never thought about it before and it what's interesting is is that you can take something that is safe to use instead of the safe product and by decreasing its size sufficiently you change the way it's absorbed in the body so that it might no longer be safe right and they're the problem with it is no reason I don't have an answer is that I'm going to have to spend a long time researching this because most of the articles that are anti then anti Nano particles in in food are written by people that I think are biased and most articles that are saying that you shouldn't worry about nanoparticles in food also come from people that are biased so far that I found and so I haven't been able to do enough research for my own my own feeling to be able to make any statement one way or the other but it definitely is something that I think needs to be looked at more than it is now it what are these things doing

so I thanks Mark and I will look more into it and expect to hear more blithering when I finally figure out what I think I peed her name. She can find the email address for saying the comments so I don't know who sent it to but here it is the new torch tip appears to work by radiating infrared at this time by radiating infrared and near infrared radiation what makes it similar to an old fashioned French salamander it was heated in a fire tail red hot and then held over the food the French name would be something like set amount of them all day I'm at least we wouldn't work with American audiences 21st century salamander I like Sally maybe Sally 21 I like Sally cuz it sounds friendly Sally sounds friendly salamander by the way I was taught when I was learning cooking that it was called a salamander because it used to have like a some of them had a shape that was similar to sound better but I don't think it's that for my research salamanders because of the markings on them I've had

Lynx amateur that you know the New Black and Vivian has had a link with fire sense since recorded since recorded history because I think those are the markings on it so it's used to be thought that salamanders were impervious to flame in fact they were fake that people used to sell coats made out of salamander wool and everyone to see a sound that annoys they don't have wheeler hair but you know Europeans were some time back in the Middle Ages so that they would import salamander wool coats from from east from that you know from what what the time is called the Orient if you were having you like this pastor sayings and then we need to get dirty because Europeans a dirty fact that a no offense and it would like that throw him into the fire and it would get clean that way it's pretty pretty pretty cool you Twenty One Pilots here's hoping that sells a good so it doesn't become an endangered species thanks Peter

okay Bob Berry. Which I got right last time the probably not this time rights back in in response to a couple things we had on our show before cooking issues inquire about food science textbooks I found at Cinemas food chemistry is helpful and accessible if you have a chemistry background that is I have that book is pretty good I have an older version of it and you can find it online pretty well if you want to look through it before you buy and send a message to available extremely cheap Leon a b e bookstore on bookfinder.com if you're willing to get an older version of it that's how I got mine I also into PDF because that's how I roll I also I started with modernist cuisine at home which I found that was blown away by the detail found in the five volume version it is well worth the investment for anyone with a serious interest in cooking science having spent nearly the same amount for a single volume medical textbooks it's a bargain that is also myhrvold point that if you go out to a super expensive meal you can afford to buy modernist cuisine and it's worth that they actually said that to me then, almost verbatim

and second question this is respond to a second, brother this is response to a podcast on a few months ago the polycarbonate tub of I buy Williams-Sonoma with a polyscience circular is not the same tub that the police I'm so I sent out on their website the pre cut polycarbonate lenses sold in a polyscience website will not fit the William-Sonoma tub fortunately any restaurant supply store that sells Cambro containers sells a lid for the Williams-Sonoma tub which is soft and not so I can have to cut a circular hole with a pair of heavy-duty scissors I believe I paid $7 for it so it's worth it seven bucks although I tell you the ones that I get cannot be cut with oh I don't know what the weather was no one is as that little plastic he one that sits on top the red kind those can be cut with scissors if you have the the tubs that we use that are ugly also made by Cambro those live can't be cut with scissors I think it depends on which kind you have anyway thanks thanks for that tip Bob also Steven Rhodes rights in on the name they fairly show me when I say name I mean the name of the kickstarter thing that we're working on the you know the torch thing I thought of a name is a Kickstarter project see her right

Sallie Mae Twitter I forget who it was cuz I don't have my Twitter up but said we should get what they suggested searzall and it was like to be searzall because you like Sawzall so much and then he did a pound hash thing saying did I miss anything but I love Sears all it's just that you know some of my partners believe that it sounds like Sears Roebuck and therefore they don't like it but I like searzall because to The Seer some things that Sasha what is here all things right all things all things okay maybe we should take a quick break and then come back with some blistering finishing off

White Oak pastures is the only harm in the United States has its own usda-inspected red meat I'm at Wawa or slaughter house and its own usda-inspected Whole Foods to deliver Ohio quality meat and poultry from Miami Florida all the way to Princeton New Jersey 101.5 Generations other than 45 years full circle return to sustainable land stewardship do you mean I was talking ship was commissioned please visit our website White Oak pastures. Com

I like the way that guy says poultry don't you like the way that man says poetry submission for the Hurst Ranch commercial

Yeah by far stuff to pick one but they seem like sweaty balls and a huge difference to the problem was he was doing it too low temperature too long as we suspected

but the resulting Brewery still cloudy and I have the issue of Spritz a slight effervescent carbonation so my questions are as follows I am from ending the Wine Into Water Seal pickle from is that better or worse in fermenting in an open pipe open pipe will have less pressure in a but you're not sealing a probably enough to keep the not probably ceiling in enough to keep in the membrane fried my brain fried keep in the CO2 and plus some Aaron needs to get to it for the fermentation to work I think although maybe I maybe not so I it's been a long time since I've looked at it but I don't think that's causing your spread to anus is there a way to prevent the carbonation it's annoying to me know you can you can if you let it vent off enough as long as you're making sure that no acetobacter is going to grow in it to make it more acidic then you can let the carbonation go out for you can apply a vacuum to it and zip the out as if the car comes outside right out of it like I do like we do it campaign we're testing it is the cloudiness of floor can I clarify the one I tried filtered through coffee filters but nothing came out I have no access to a centrifuged whether or not you can clarify it depends on what the clouding and say is I'm

fortunately I suspect that what is causing the cloudiness in your case is starch and starch isn't very well clarify by techniques like agar clarification as well as fit as well as other cloudy things are proteins but if it is starch it will settle if you let it sit for a few know like a week or two it should settle out and then you can probably do can't the clear stuff off the top but it's not a flaw if it's not starch then you can just do an agar clarification going to cooking issues website which is working again thanks to I'll Paul Adams our buddy you can look up clarification techniques and get a technique with that guy that doesn't require a centrifuge really cool like this a lot more Madison Road in last week about quail eggs we speak to everybody right I think he wrote he wrote and you know what I said was please someone run the experiment experiment was can you put a quail egg tinnitus icontainer with nitrous invent them real quick to make them peel easier and hear an experiment is that so here it is a question

funny but your pronunciation is not entirely spot on Morton Morton Madsen what do you think I don't know I don't know at least you did not torture my name to Justin and found it quite informing I told me not to come by peeling eggs right back to the issue at hand I took your suggestion on using me aside to approximate the pressure change associated with the pressure cooking of eggs when you mention that the critical aspect of the pressure cooking of eggs is the abrupt change in pressure and not the temperature my thoughts immediately went to the isi as yours as well be able to say when I got the chance I went out and bought a new batch of quail eggs recipes from the last time blanch a bunch of eggs in boiling water followed by cooling step in a second planting I've been circulated the eggs at 63.5 degrees Celsius for a short. From this point on I split the eggs and three and three things at first I tried to feel directly use a grieving harder to feel then I remembered I was only due to the fact that they were fresh the second batch I put directly to the isi canister from the circulator and loaded with n2o followed by a violent venting right away

this time complete success these eggs are much easier to peel the membrane dilution for the egg white and had no problem healing is this solution is really what I was dreaming of I think it will die will be able to peel every single egg with no breakage using this technique lastly I had one more batch of eggs this when I cool down I wanted to test if you guys would do just as fine when loaded cold while the back of her legs are reason that no into old would dissolve in the eggs however with the cold eggs this would make a difference with my small batches of Exile I think I leave work this last batch the one that's cold to be the easiest to peel an egg and it seems that this technique Works equally well with cold and warm it so it seems that one does not need to worry about egg temperature before the IRS I stepped in summary I can easily recommend this technique of the shortcut to peeling eggs I will try to take me to chicken eggs or sometime however this is probably not be nearly as advantageous in 2 eggs are easier to peel begin with and some say we can store only hold a small number of eggs thanks for your help Morton Madison

that was a big we develop with someone who's the show over over the radio awesome awesome awesome breeding Anastasia Dave and all yes you do have at least one other dedicated female listener and one with a question at that busted Stars busted

doctor says Buster whenever you're wrong he's at those you're busted busted but that's required that you cook at about the same temperature as the classic method to obtain the same result being a pork belly and pig ears kind of gal meet me if I was a guy I'd be that kind of girl to Intrigue me my question is from a perspective what are the better off running my circulator at 90 C for several hours or should I put the VAC bag meat in a hot water in an oven of the same temperature at CentraState you can probably eat see the problem with ovens is that if the localized temperature of the bag gets above boiling it can melt out but it's so what we what you could do is put a like a like a bane or a water bath or a roaster on your stove top and then cook that one I looked I wouldn't do it in the oven because I think that the bat localized bag temperature my cat too high and you might get some melting but you could definitely do it on a stove top and that's what I typically do is I do it on the stovetop but I would

Triton oven just because I can't get if you can if you could guarantee that the bag would stay underneath the water the whole time it would inflate with air and then the bag would get above the surface of the water then I think you could do it you want to meet but I wouldn't I wouldn't try it out and I would actually self-regulate because the water won't get above boiling because of evaporative cooling inside of the oven so that would be great but you have to make sure that the bag doesn't come up above the surface it is a pain running circulators at that high temperature especially with larger quantities and stuff and who wants to come see one thing you know anyway so good idea to you but got it wrong I think you should call it shimura a SC400 steering Ian pronounce at Ace shimura Ace says why do you know I don't think I don't have likes and dislikes like you do I don't have likes and dislikes how you do anyway whatever you call it I can't wait to buy one thanks for asking my answer my question okay Dorothy

rip through these like a stun gun Dorothy's fan Brook Road in from Keith Glen farm and kitchen hijack Dave anastacio first you do a female listeners another one double busted stuff I have a middle-aged female from Minnesota Minnesota since I was a little kid in the back like Minnesota miss her when I was a kid I remember being good we fish I got a whole bunch of catfish and don't want to eat them so we had to bury him for fertilizer but that's not even send other likely female listens to your podcast by on my blog spot on top 7 food podcast we females may not be many but we are listening this Tasha my question I am making Harissa sauce and would like to make a shelf-stable by water bath in it like a champ I'm thinking this may not be safe as it does not have enough acid or sugar in it it is made from rehydrate Chili Peppers garlic spices lemon juice and grape seed oil do I have to use a pressure cooker or a Tartan at a ton of acid to make a shelf-stable can I get away with water but where's our bathing or is there a better way thanks so much I do love your show in

okay first of all because you are at a place that you own or whatever he's planned farm and kitchen my something I could be wrong here so right back if my something's wrong myself since you don't want to keep a bunch of preservatives into it because clearly you can kill whatever is going to grow in that with preservatives but assuming that you don't want to add preservative the provocation is usually like I like I like the sauce or just a pace but the pace is that you know what a mixture of oil and garlic and chili is with enough water to rehydrate the Chili's right and another flavorings you at you said you have you said you have lemon juice in yours now the issue is that princess you're making garlic oil the issue is is there's nothing in the garlic to prevent things from my botulism like growing and so when you add oil if I had a new oil you're making it an anaerobic environment environment without oxygen because coding all the stuff and then by doing that you're increasing the likelihood something like botulism grow

it was only that's what you're worried about and rightly so not a problem is normal heating it if if your product is susceptible to spoilage buy something like botulism write a spore-forming bacteria then then doing a water bath is not sufficient to kill it right so that would not be sufficient if your if the problem is something like botulism then you have to seal it and pressure cook it can it right pressure can it not a pressure cooker to pressure can its they need to follow the right advice to do that now let's put this back a little bit let's say that your product hasn't like let's say you added salt to it right and you can measure the water activity and you can measure the pH of it and it's called a hurdle so what did we do whatever you're trying to stop microbes from growing you have with call hurdles where you put different things in the way of bacteria from growing so for botulism in things like it typically hurdles will be water activity a small amount of water second hurdle will be solved high enough Mountain

third eye will be a pH be acidity and combination if it's acid enough salty enough and has a lot of them out of water then botulism cannot grow so you can adjust those things and by the way interesting thing about your mouth your mouth doesn't taste pH your mouth literally tastes the number of acid molecules that are present that's how it that's how you see signs more less sour to a first-order don't don't yell at me to a first-order that's correct which means you can choose an acid that has a larger effect on the pH right that's going to kill botulism irregular verb but doesn't taste the sour on your tongue so you can give to look up a list of acidifiers that have you know they can shift pH very quickly without it being too too much of an acid perception on the tongue now let's go this way let's say you add enough product you had enough acid and salt and also the water activity

water portion of it you shouldn't that you should have all the songs mixed into the water portion before you make your oil Emulsion let's say you have enough to stop botulism from going you haven't guaranteed you guarantee that no one will die from botulism but you haven't guaranteed that it's going to be stable so there are things that will grow environment like that like yeast for instant things like that they can grow in those environment in microbes that can grow that are not pathogens they won't kill you but they can change the flavor and spoil it luckily for you most of those things can be killed with a simple water bath so if you make your Harissa stable enough to not have a deadly Spore forming bacteria grow in it like botulism then a simple water bath is enough to kill the rest of the stuff in there that will simply cause bad taste and spoil what you think I do not have time to ask answer the last question in from Winter send out where he was wondering if I could help with a recipe for a homemade soda like

sanbitter this is from India and Beijing and massage will be interested in you know saying that he likes me but all right I'll tell you what I don't have time but I'm definitely going to go over that next week in the and the reason I can't go for that is because I've missed one for like 3 or 4 weeks in a row on the bdx ice program so here's what we do at PDX PDX so it is possible we we in general use three main three or four main kinds of ice we use crappie machine ice that that's what we use for our stirring and for chilling things down and for normal culinary use and whenever we don't care right that's just normal ice machine ice and my feeling is that it has just the same chilling power pound-for-pound is any kind of ice the problems are it doesn't look very good and I can have more surface water because it has a large surface area so we l i x will shake it off before we use it but it's it's fine second kind of ice will use his presentation eyes presentation

nice we get our ice made by hundredweight Ice Corporation they freeze it in large machines called clinebell we get them in slabs that stuff is perfectly clear there are ways to freeze perfectly clear ice at home or at a bar that don't involve we don't do it we just order it from hundredweight Ice we get them in slabs we temper those slabs out and then we cut them with bread knife they cut of cuts if so easy to cut you just put the bread knife to slide across at tap it and you can make a perfect square chunks that are beautiful-looking that's our presentation ice that we use for old Fashions and drinks that are built on the Rocks lastly we make shaking ice we have to buy two 2-inch by 2-inch ice cube trays that we get from Cocktail Kingdom there's are made from urethane and not from Silicon the polyurethane ones that they have don't have any Aroma where is Evan Freeman noted years ago that the silicone molds that you can buy and some houseware stores make a taste to the ice that is otherwise unpleasant presumably from the silicone but the one from Cocktail Kingdom we did side-by-side taste test and we've not been able to know any flavor in them

now those ice cube 2 by 2 ice cubes have cloudiness in them so they're not good presentation cute however my feeling is is that they make ideal shaking Ice Cube because the texture and shake and drink with a large to buy to Ice Cube is better as we've noted in side-by-side taste test however if you had just one two by two Ice Cube to a Shaker you're not going to get enough. Lucian because it's so large that you can't get efficient efficient solution that way so typically are shaking drinks we put in one large to buy to Ice Cube it's frozen in the cocktail Kingdom Ice Cube mold and then we throw in a couple from the crappie ice machine to increase the dilution and that's our sweet spot for shaking Drake's we do not make cobbler ice because we don't use highball glasses in our presentations yet otherwise we would so that's it slab I said we couldn't finish whatever shape we want usually cubes on the order of two by two frozen to buy two cubes that we freeze in a freezer that we allowed to be cloudy that we use for shaking regular crap ice

and then also course your boy dry liquid nitrogen which is our other chilling technique and that's it for this week cooking issues

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