Cooking Issues Transcript

Episode 116: Pork & Dessert

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cooking issues is a cookie sheet in the back of head during the intro little stunned how can you call yourself a New York the laid-back life here in in Brooklyn only requires two cups of coffee you understand you know being residents of the island of Manhattan 3 show up by the way speaking of Joel is that is he coming in next week or next week cooking issue songs that true or false

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we have it's almost rap season people it's almost Ramses and everyone knows Mustachio love

you know why she hates ramps it's not because they're not delicious cuz they are it's just because everyone else likes and that's why she hates them in each in each episode Mark barter about 1/2 hour behind Anastasia Jack Joe and Dave 160 life on the enigmatic oil solidify in Katamari what's important enough light I mean I wish I could actually get the product of 1

why is it supposed to be so good as a fry coating or for making pie pastry if it's described as a pre gelatinize or instant wheat flour does that mean that is simply a retrograde of starch or is it the very opposite a pro-grade in starch like Kona poke black toilet professionally graded anyway because it is mechanically modified starch rather than a chemically modified star could I realistically make my own wonder by taking a low protein cake flour and hydrating eye heating it to Wichita to what temperature I surely you have a after you cook it and pulverizing it is diastatic malt flour critical component and finally I have been able to find a retailer Cleveland to wonder here in Australia so I look instead for an Asian African Middle Eastern equivalent until next time Mark butter okay for those of you that aren't hip to the Wondra what wonder is is a it's a wheat flour so you're gluten folks can't can't mean anti-gluten folks can't use it

Piper hat it's a weird what it is is it it's two things it's pretty gelatinize meaning it's already been cooked right but it hasn't just been milled down to the powder so you can't just use a pre milled powder it's also agglomerated rights of the two key things about Wondra is that it is pregelatinized and agglomerated I want your head because we have a call around to take a college question then come back to one draw color you're on the air

hey I got a question about country ham uncooked I was lucky enough to be in Lowville a week or two ago and picked up a ham at finchville farms on my way back great place I visited them great great place could him

I'm hoping it's hanging in my basement and with just two people in the house a big ham is going to last a long time yes there's a lot of stuff I want to do with it I want to cook some of it I want to make broth with some of it I want to eat some of it raw my question is how do I go about taking this large ham and using the different pieces making different pieces and using them for different things but by the way even though a Kentucky ham is a Kentucky ham their extensions of the culture from Virginia ham in fact a lot of the people who are his families are very Oldham cures in places like Kentucky and Tennessee are actually direct transplants from from Virginia so big the culture Virginia ham stretches across and Country hams as we know them which means that this current phrase I'm about to give to you applies to Kentucky hands as well as to Virginia hams but the old joke goes

that the definition of forever is two people in a country ham because it lasts so long and you can use it for such a long time that it almost never never goes away I haven't found that to be the case because because I eat so much of it whenever I have one in the house the first thing you want to make sure is that you're keeping it properly so in the old days Maurice Berger who suffer from Burgers Smokehouse in Missouri you know what they used to do back in the days before Refrigeration was they would cut slices of the of the ham out and then wipe hard over the cut services so they wouldn't lose too much moisture and they would hang them from thin thin like wires in their in their in their shed to stop a Vermin from being able to get down there like a sick road to get it that's how they used to do in the old days but I mean typically what people do when they have a country ham nowadays is they'll cut the cut the cushion which is

so if you look at a country ham right here look at the face in the face of it state that the part that was actually attached to the pig that's not skin that part is typically very very dry and so unlike a prosciutto which is designed to have a fairly even salt and dryness level throughout the entire thing of the meat and American country ham typically the face is going to be very dry on the reverse side of the face you'll have that pushing and pushing is the kind of thick muscle apart and because of the way country hands are hung in the US are they tend to be a lot thicker and therefore a lot less dry then the rest so what a lot of people will do is remove the cushion right off of that off of the ham and then slice that one separately for more of your presentation pieces you're eating you're eating it as a Crudo situation and then you will take the cliff a section and use it for stocks and whatnot I tend to do very very little cooking of it because

it just gets so it gets so tough and salty when you cook it but it's amazing like sliced and put over over eggs you know and then just letting a little bit of heat headed or as a substitute for things on Pizza thrown in at the end of the of the cook time usually on the pizza to just sit still sealed up a little bit slicer so what I would do is I would bone the thing out hole and then just slice it and enjoy all that all the different portion for your home it's very difficult to bone out a country ham so bad the way to do it is to take it and to locate where the kind of that the joint is in there right saw through that with a hacksaw you have a meat saw that good saw through with a hacksaw the backside of it has some meat that can be sliced when she get that little piece out but there's less and less meat as you get towards the edge of that phone I would trim off some of that very outside fat you want to keep the majority of the fat there but the skin itself sometimes can have a little bit of funky flavor and sometimes you can have little areas of taint none Church stuff running down the bow

sections of it so you want to remove any parts that you don't like and then the parts of the tail you can use for a trim that we added to ground hamburger meat anything like that or stocks and soups the face also because it's so dry stock suits or like grated sometimes if you really dry it out and then the cushion for your more you know fancy applications once you saw through the the ham at that joint then you can then you can either cut the cushion off whole or take a knife and and debone it just takes a while and be careful not to be the only time I've ever broken a knife in my entire life of cooking is on an American country ham

okay you so you don't you say you don't cook them but they recommend if you're going to soaking it

yeah that's true be a shift if you're going to cook it the salt level is too high so you need to get some of the salt out of it and equalize that the salt content especially in the face so you know my grandma my grandma used to do in Virginia was she would throw it in a in a pot of water let it get all you know that she would so could have been a couple of changes of water almost like you would do like bacalao you know it were or bright a lot of pain where you're from it's not necessary if you're going to if you're not going to cook a big issue with the cooking also is the recommendations on American country ham because of USDA guidelines You're such perverse American country hands are ready to eat product you do not need to cook them however in terms of safety however I like our Traditions come from England on this an England hands are traditionally cook even though our hands are more akin to the ham that you would get it in terms of Spain and and parts of France and Italy in terms of their actual drawing

they're at their usefulness in that way and so we tend to cook them even though they don't need to be cooked and in the old days where you would cook them as you might soak it for a little while and water and then you stick it in a giant a large pan with water bring the temperature up and then just let it ride overnight you wouldn't be until the actual inside of the ham wouldn't be cooked at that high of a temperature because it doesn't actually need cooking they're just softening it and cooking it a little bit to see what I'm saying so the recommendations that are on the packages for country ham because they're based on USDA cooking of meats are absurdly high it is not possible to make a country ham that taste good following the recommendations are on the package the other problem is is that were used to eating ham in general slice extremely thick lie and you don't want a piece of country ham slice that fixed so if you are going to cook a ham in a cooked hams are good on things like this gets are fried and put on eggs you want a slice of extremely extremely Finley and and Country Ham is not meant to be you know your main source of calories in a meal country ham is meant to almost be a season 2 seasoning me


all right, thanks for calling in and I always have any sort of country ham questions

what's up where time until I can Chicago thanks for taking to call the best way to handle a whole pigs having a circulator and second of all, it's like an adult they had wow so big can't do you have a vacuum machine capable of bagging it two schools of thought about this if you want it to taste me if you bag it and cook it the circulator the meats going to hold together nicer which is going to make it easier to do like a whole a whole prep the problem is when you cook it in a circulator that way and you pull it out but usually the skin is going to get a little bit damaged and so you're going to have I'm assuming you're going to crisp up one or both sides of it and have the

that's inside be crispy right or no yes yes so the the the issue on a lot of things like pig skin is it gets extremely delicate during the cooking process and so what you're going to be doing is a two-part cook right where you're going to be cooking enchiladas noising the skin and the meat in a low temp cook and then you're going to be doing a crisp off process and you just have to be careful that you don't damage the surface of the skin in the in the in the process Meats why you might want to think of doing instead of a circulator if you have access to a combat you might want to think about doing a comedy or but you know it will work fine just had to be careful careful with the skin as long as you can bag it you should be all right to vacuum levels not going to hurt meat in it in a pig head I've never done a pig have never done ahead with the bones in it so I'm not you're going to draw some of the stuff out of the of the bombs and I don't know how much void space there is IE how much bag problems you going to have around things like the teeth which means you're going to have to put oil into it to take

got any spaces there in the teeth sections is making sense or no yes the only other thing that you have to think about now is whether you wanted to be more of a traditional low temp cook or whether you want to taste more Potala what you would get in a head cheese right and so if you wanted to taste more poach then you're going to have to put some stock in with it instead of oil it's it is a totally a question if you do it that way it won't hold together as well as if you do it in a oil which is essentially what I would think of it as a dry cooking technique even though it's in a bag underwater right coach had she say is the opposite of what I'm going for here in the bag just oil and then you'll get more of a dry cook thing I would unbagged the pig's head when it's when it's hot and although remember when it's hot skins most delicate right because we take a pigskin you cook it it's extremely delicate cuz it renders out the gel it and then when it gets cold then it's it's it's fine again you can work with it because of gelatin reset so

the reason ton bag at hot is the flash off some the liquid off off the surface of it so that you was going to be able to pick up a smoke better right but if you're going to have a long time between when you're going to cook it and and and when you going to finish it then you can pull the whole thing down gently on baguette and then I would I would like kind of bring it up to Temp blow the excess moisture off the surface if you can in like a in like a local infection we know with the door open so that the moisture leaves it that the skin section and then you're going to need to do either a roast off or after you blow the moisture off of it put it in the in your smoker smoke it up a should take a smoke fine after after it's been cooked so long as it's not wet on the surface smoker I want to circulate first dry it off and then put it in the smoker

we're not just the way I would approach it but now that you say it I see no reason why you can't smoke it and then throw it into the bag I mean it seems like it would work either way I mean leave the issue with me up resume we have a cold smoker right I mean the only Advantage I can see of smoking it afterwards as you have no there's no safety issues involved because you've already done that could they kill staph and if you were going to smoke it hot then me depends on how long you're going to smoke it if you're going to smoke it only for a little while pick up a little bit of flavor you're not going to get like a huge cooked through on it it's not going to be a problem but on the other hand if you're looking for the opposite of a post flavor you're going to want to evacuate some of that moisture off of the surface of the meat any way in which case I think it might be advantageous to do the the drying after it's been a little bit of drying after it's been cooked along with the smoke process you know what I mean and then and she going to smoke it then Chris Pitts

we lost him going to smoke it and then crisp it or no

yeah I mean at least you could do it either way and I'm also assuming that you're going to do a pig's head at a relatively elevated temperature compared to normal low temperature cooking yeah well it depends me so like for instance it depends on how traditional you wanted to taste you know what I'm saying so if you want to take some more like like a confit I would do it at traditional coffee temperature when I do duck for instance I do duck legs at traditional temperatures just in a bag so that I won't require and a lot of extra fat and it won't overcooking it won't dry out so you know I do duck lay eggs all the way up at you know 80-82 in that range you don't even like a traditional ranch simmering ranges whereas if you wanted to taste a lot if you want an entirely different result then you're going to go in the much lower range in the mid-60s let's say but it's going to be a different result from what people would normally expect from a pig's head and it's going to take a long time for the skin to tone

surrender to gelatin at those low low temperatures I will try to do the splits lancehead like roast in the oven good stuff yeah hey Daniel from Austin Texas I recently bought a rotovap ibuchi I mean are the 110th and I got to dry vacuum eBay but I don't have a controller and I keep my costs down and I don't know I've recently got modernist cuisine they don't really give any guidance says where to get a vacuum controller and what to look for I know I want something digital but I really just don't know where to start okay so the vacuum controller that you're having a vacuum pump you're getting as it isn't Edward boc dry vac or just like a Welsh drive back is a piston what kind of pump is it

so how good are you at Electronics

I'm okay at it I have a BS in chemistry at the electronics courses around by my wife people were talking about is rotary evaporator is a vacuum distillation you know a piece of equipment it's used in chemistry labs and increasingly in kitchens and the premises is that by doing your distillation at under a vacuum you can reduce the temperature and also reduce any possibility of oxidation of the product that allows you to do very gentle distillations was very clean flavors of things like the good news is for home so the good news is that you can allow it to be a little bit fidgety right if you're doing it at home especially at the gecko bad news is vacuum control out so we can get this done that's not a problem the bad news is actual

vacuum controllers are ridiculously expensive Pfeiffer vacuum MVP dry Pond Side and I don't really know much more about it since it hasn't come in the mail yet frankly easiest cheapest way to get started is there any leak in a vacuum system in a rotary evaporator that happens prior to leaving the condenser unit is completely detrimental to flavor kills your flavor but a bleed in the vacuum system in between the condenser in the vacuum pump is a fine way to regulate your vacuum pressure at the get-go and four years before I had a vacuum controller I just used a needle valve like a very small you know eighth inch npt which is natural high taper needle valve that I put onto a

tee off of my vacuum line and I just had my vacuum pump going great guns the entire time and I would bleed a small amount of air into the system to regulate the pressure right and so as a first approximation the first test right then that'll get you off the ground running and figuring out distillation in your rotovap and all that stuff for you know under twenty bucks right now the next level of butt and you should be constantly searching vacuum controllers on eBay right Next Level above that as you can get yourself a vacuum gauge and if you get a vacuum gauge then you can at least tell where your digital vacuum gauge you can least tell where your system is sitting at any one point in time okay the next level above that is you can build your own controller if you go to Auburn instruments they have a lot of the parts to do this for reading vacuum and they can be tweaked out in because

feedback loop essentially if you need if you're going to have a drive pump which means it doesn't have any oil if you have an oil-based pump that the control logic is a little more difficult because you have to worry about switching an oil-based pump off and on cuz if you switch an oil-based pump off and on without you know just keep doing it you have possibility of Backstreet me of oil into your system but because you have a dry pump that's not an issue so you can put a you can just put a valve like you know it like a solenoid valve there that's rated for vacuum and then you know a vacuum sensor and just put it on a loop and just have it Go the problem is is that the really expensive nice vacuum pumps and controllers they have the motors are controlled by pulse by Pulsar pause control and so they can actually slow the motor down towards the end of the vacuum cycle rather than just you know going on and off with a set number of millibars hysteresis

that is so that's what the nicer vacuum control get get you the really nice vacuum control bases it on the really that no one has because it's only in the bigger systems is here's a secret is that you want to know what the vacuum level is because it's telling you what the actual boiling point is the boiling point of your platelets are the set point of your water bath and a rotovap really has only a marginal amount to do with what the temperature of your product is in the same way that when you put a flame underneath a pot of water the flame doesn't have a direct impact the flame temperature doesn't have a direct impact on what the water temperature because it's not going to go above 100 right Celsius so your water bath temperature is not an adequate indicator the only thing it's adequate is the vapor temperature right until you could develop a control I would put a vacuum gauge on it but if you really want to be you know kind of you know ahead of the curve for most people is I would put a thermocouple gauge in your in your condenser and measure the

set that measure when the temperature knee happens between the condensing and non convection at the condensing section and run your vacuum that way

oh so that instead of looking at the vapor line on the condenser I have something to detect it automatically and turn in for the backing down to reduce America line is it so when you about to get a handle on the distillation works and then but if you if you're used to rid of apps at all when you put your hand against your back of that your hand against the condenser and you go up and down the condenser you can feel where it goes from warm to cold right and that's where you're in and you can visually see it on as a condensation line but you can just measure the temperature between VapoRub of the condensation line and below it you'll see a shark break and so if you just control the vacuum to put that break exactly where you want on the condenser you can keep it at saturation for all day long and you don't really care what the vacuum pressure is so long as it's not wildly higher while below so I would also have a gauge so that you know where you are

I hate leaving condenser without breaking news when I'm worried about it cuz it's very simple to try it that way so try it external to it and see what he can get an accurate enough result and if not then try to figure out a way to put it on the inside but it's also made me lazy so they haven't built it the way I want it which is temperature control the way I'm telling you so if you don't have plastic coated glass then I would recommend always wearing safety goggles on that thing because it can be it could be and I Hazard if it implodes or wrapping electrical tape

okay I have one other question I'm having some problems with a bath if they sent me it occurred to me that I could just use my sous vide as the water bath if you think there's any problem with that you know what I mean like it's just like using a regular irregular circulator I mean I've done it in a panties just really messy and the circulator had doesn't really fit nicely with with the thing so the water bath and Zack Bia convenient way to do it you don't have saying because it's built for it but if you're having problems with the water bad there's nothing to stop you from starting by using a circulator I have done it

there ain't no very helpful I appreciate it the first commercial break

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I'm not forgotten you I have not forgotten you Mark we're talking about Wondra Wondra flour okay so if you go back to the beginning section to show it's a wonder is two main things it is both pre gelatinize me it's been cooked and it and then wonder is cooking a moist environment because trying to cook out a flower in a non moist environment doesn't work the same way doesn't do the same stuff so it's cooking a moist environment to gelatinize or function Library want to call it the starch and then it is milled and then agglomerated what agglomeration is it is it means that if you look at wonder you can see it it looks poorest it looks like I'm trying to think of what it looks like it looks like it looks like little like mini pumice stone tiny rocks at the Guam right stuff looks different and what are the benefits of agglomeration okay well it's of the benefits of of a Preacher latinizing is is it will go it will go into

Lucian in a cold liquid right so because it goes into solution in a cold liquid it doesn't require a lot of heat and moisture together to become functional which is why and low-moisture things like pie crust or like in kegs it it can function I was very quick in fact if you look at if you look at a pie crust under a scanning electron microscope most of the starch granules haven't actually been cooked out they're mostly still intact because there's not enough moisture in that recipe to get them to do their fine so you can which is good because you actually don't want to last October sometimes do you want it let you know sometimes you in it but the theory being that because you're adding a preacher latinized thing you'll get some extra start functionality out of it I guess it's also love by chance I guess I tell if I don't know in that cake I read about it to you soon in in in cakes in the idea there is that you don't need to do a lot of mixing to get the starch to perform its functional equivalency so you'd

don't have to overbeat that that the dough because it's already pre hydrated right obviously it's you know main I used to have one use it for is making gravy without lumps and the reason it makes gravy without lumps and also can be added cold right is the agglomeration and normal particles fine particles have a couple of problems with their Dusty right there's a lot of dust involved that's one of the early reasons that people want to use the Wonder always have stuff around it wasn't Dusty to when you agglomerates the particles together it's very easy for water to infiltrate the particles and break off small small pieces of this flower and then hydrate and that is not possible if you just add flour and fine particles because of start of particles tend to Clump as they're trying to I go into solution and as they Clump they form a layer of gummy crap around them and that layer of gummy crab actually prevents the stuff on the inside from getting wet at all and because doesn't get wet it doesn't dissolve so they glomeration

helps with dissolution right and the preacher latination pre gelatinize to thank me that's already cooked out so it will thicken stuff when it's cold that's awesome but also I normally when you use flour are you happy with called cook it out to get rid of that raw flour taste and there is no raw flour taste in wondering cuz it's already been cooked all right that's what's going on with the Wonder the questions how are you going to do that at home you can't really make Wondra at home you can't but there are a couple things you can do that you can buy the outside of the US of a one thing is National start National starch makes a product called Ultra sperse 3 and it's a free gelatinize waxy Maize starch right that is ugly, rated so there's a big thing like a lot of a couple times some chefs used to recommend Ultra text but I always recommend using Ultra sperse because ultratex is a pregelatinized starch that is not agglomerated and so we can form lumps and Ultra sperse is a pre gelatinize start

that is agglomerated and so will not come up on you the only reason to use to not use Spurs his first is a little more expensive than text but for most home Cooks that's not really an issue and the other good news is ultra sperse is available on modernist Pantry, they will ship all over the world and I don't mind saying that even though they're no longer supported I said I like them so yes they will ship that all over the world now if you don't want to do that for some reason right you're going to have a tough time making your own Cree gelatinize agglomerated start but instead of agglomerated if you don't mind cooking the product out and you're going to use it in something like gravy you can separate flour particles using some old school methods and the one that I'm going to tell you now is our money burn money is where you take butter which will not you know does not solubilize the flower right and you mold butter and flour together into little balls and then you can stir those be

listen to your gravy and because you separated the flour particles with fat they no longer stick together and as the butter melts it releases small flour particles in your solution and it tends not to lump up as much so there you go either by Ultra sperse 3 which is a very good substitute for things like thickening and can be used in baking application or go to something like a burn money if you just want a quick way to thicken gravy you can't get your wonder where things last hello Heritage Radio Hey Joe and the rest of today I know right it's been from San Francisco again Dave my apologies for not reporting back on the Valentine's dinner I made from Jolly your advice was excellent

this is what they said he did on Valentine's Day. On Thanksgiving correction of 55 C for 2 hours I'll bring it down to 50 c before deep-frying I saw it after I'm bagging from severe dizzy when others that suggested and I got better results than normal deep-fried lamp that is a bit funky butt with a side of a Ratatouille and Harissa yogurt sauce everything came out really well I also did biscuits biscuits also did biscuits with apricot preserves and thinly sliced smoked pork chop sorry about the biscuits and stuff finally I had to do I find that I tried to do a jackfruit see but it didn't set up in the fridge turn it into a jackfruit Jackfruit Clement creme anglaise nice save then poured it over lemon vanilla cake and no one was the wiser just a quick note Jackfruit is awesome taste like Juicy Fruit gum and looks like a Facehugger pod from Aliens ya ya doin' there's two there's a shovel main kinds of Jack remember Stiles me cut the Jackfruit off the trees in Florida and no one told us that like you're supposed to like cut it and let's

on the ground for a while and I got the latex all over my shirt and ruin the shirt and I ruined my knife and I was screaming person cuz I couldn't get the latex from the the Jackfruit off of my night was a huge nightmare we have I guess what's his name Campbell Richard Campbell and Norris leads it is delicious I don't like the conversions whatever okay but really good first introduction of Jackfruit few people. In Asian market and get the Jackfruit chips not the crappy ones but the nice ones that are all puffy and delicious and they do have a juicy fruit and they're awesome anyway so I've been questioned is my question I'm planning to barbecue pork shoulder and brisket I understand the to avoid the stall caused by evaporative cooling I need to wrap the meat with foil when it stops rising in ten hundred 55 fahrenheit BBQ joints don't seem to ever wrap their meat though what if anything am I losing when I wrap the meat are all these famous Southern BBQ joints just doing it wrong thanks again then okay

update the proof of the pudding of the Southern BBQ joints is as they say in the eating and having eaten in in Texas style BBQ with actually Chris Young from modernist cuisine well in fact discussing the stall that you're referring to doing to evaporative cooling right we we learned one thing and we learned that that meat is delicious is delicious you can't argue with the urinal saying like to the barbecue joints are not doing it wrong similarly in North Carolina in the meat sit there making there are delicious and so it's not that they're doing it wrong in Mars Cuisine their Advocates of stopping the stall by rapid because their Advocates of doing suvee cooking in general however I do not find that suvee cooking is better or worse it is different if you like so the meats done in a traditional way are going to be dryer in general and going to have a different outside surface texture than you would if you did it sous vide

loss of different internal temperature because they're going to go to a much higher temperature than they normally would CV and the meat tends to actually have a different structure so to me it's not a matter of better it's not a matter of worse it's just a matter of a different and what you prefer

it's Brian San Francisco how are you guys heard an orange card and grapefruit card I have seen some recipes with you don't use the traditional eggs and some add a card to them and I seen some that gelatin to them and I'm wondering do I need all those extras and and what do they do or could I do with just eggs or egg yolk what do you think that technique well I haven't made one in a long time presumably you're adding the gel it and I mean you don't need to add gelatin right or a good meal of the reason to add agar is so that you don't have to use gelatin right and agar has the agar has a second benefit

silver gelatin in other than just its vegetarian it has the benefit that if you're going to have this thing sitting around in a hot climate right then a guitar won't melt out on you a guitar is not as good texture for things like this because it breaks in more of a brittle way which isn't necessary which isn't pretty you know what I mean so if you're going to do it. That was going to be like you know start and then spread then I would say I got ours is very poor choice but it would it would do suorin are you can make a fluid gel for that matter out of it then you wouldn't have said it would have her much egg yolk you want so many agar I've never I've never done but she seems like it would it would work I don't I don't think their nests are there more like insurance right when you think so

hello just in case he doesn't use anything but a joke that seems me to make sense of work

okay so you think Skip the skip the Jonathan skip me I heard just go with the egg yolk cuisine cuisine at I haven't looked at their concert section and in a million years because I haven't actually show that the money for the book yet so I only looked at it when I'm hanging out with Crush over there at home yet and so like they have like these a parametric things with Maeve. A lot of tests on the number of egg yolks required in the temperature required to set various various things and so I think they're their research on things like that in particular is probably extremely reliable

okay one question is in a must these recipes are for lemon curd but if I want to go with other kinds of citrus will that and I do choose to go with a Garmin or gelatin will any of the acidity do you know the acidity level for something like a gar mean I've done plenty of the sets of things like let lemony things with a guitar and a similar things with agar that have a problem are things like to see sings with high tannin levels or things that are extremely acidic but you're not likely to eat something that is so acid that the agar is not going to set as a result so I think you're going to be you're going to be okay you know the only issue is that you might add less sugar to something that's not as start em sit in your texture is going to get changed by the fact that your sugar ratio is changed is that makes sense so if you're gonna do it from a different Citrus I mean I think the main thing is going to be your ass and sugar balance has to come in and then your sugar level has to be the same

or the texture won't be the same

to the sugar level impacts the agar agar because you're impacting how much water there is available to the agar to set but it's sugar level will also affect egg yolk protein if you're saying it that way so I don't know whether the weather tomorrow is Cuisine has that mean that specific sugar ratio for the egg yolk to they talked about but I know that different sugar ratios affect the setting temperature and the Finish strength of egg protein gels sugar ranges

okay wonderful thank you so much I think I'll try it the old-fashioned way first nice between us and tell us what happened

okay great thanks have a good day and here's what's going on and anyone else who cares project the reason we can't talk about it is our lawyer are patent lawyer is not allowing us to stay a darn thing about what we're doing until he files a patent but it's supposed to be filed this week so if all goes well I should be able to say what it is next week right now talking about something you can't see that's typical massager style somebody is eating some sort of what looks like a low temperature cooked piece of beef in the audience have to blast through this ice cream Jack and Joe due to health reasons my mother cannot have dairy this wouldn't be that much of a problem for her if it weren't for ice cream she's been buying tofu ice cream for a while but getting tired of it probably because it only comes in one flavor are there used to be a whole bunch of different flavors of ice cream

early because only comes in one flavor any ideas for creating a dairy-free ice cream base I've heard of people stepping out coconut milk for dairy milk but she doesn't care for coconut that much and I be worried about the texture since coconut milk has less fat 4.25% compared to most ice cream base at 10 to 20% I've been thinking about making a fake milk with the most of my oil and water any input what oil should I use neither have similar fatty acids make up to milk that I don't have any emulsifiers are hydrocolloid at the moment but I'm planning on getting some stuff from modernist Pantry anyway although also I have no vital prep do I do have a blender so that's out of the question for the time being thanks one thing

okay so I know that your mom doesn't like coconut but I'm just going to talk about coconut for a minute anyway first of all numbers on the coconut milk that you have for the coconut milk that I use are or are not is not the same coconut coconut milk and this morning I took a can of coconut milk Goya coconut milk out of the back of my out of my pantry and looked at it and the stuff that I have is running at like 16% fat milk that I have runs between like 15 and 17 in that range percent fat and so is actually useful for doing ice cream what I typically do when I'm doing ice cream is mixture of coconut milk and coconut cream or cream of coconut AKA Coco Lopez no relation to nastasha and then but I know your mom I know your mom doesn't like I was breaking ice cream recipe real quick all right so my rest my ice cream recipe is 500 oz of cream with roughly 36% fat 36.6 at 10 a.m.

I also really like 26% fat and 500 milk at like you know 3 and 1/2 or we know 4% fat 170 grams of sugar and what that recipe makes out to by weight is 18% 18 and a half percent fat by weight in about 12 and a half percent Sugar by weight alright so what you need to do when you want to come with the recipe is just balance out those numbers now the reason why everyone uses coconut milk and coconut fats for ice cream recipes is because coconut milk and coconut to the fat from coconut has a very similar melting profile to butterfat so it's a solid when it's cold and it melts by the time at the body temperature and that profile is very good for ice creams right and that's why they do it you might want to consider looking at a little article done by

the American Tom there an article on using pom pom oil and not the liquid stuff but more solid stuff and you could go get that article or just get palm oil and just use that maybe Anamosa fight in the other vantage with using it in its already in coconut cream or cream coconut is that it's already done for you if I could you buy Coco Lopez it's got all kinds of stabilizers in it already and said that you can't I just like saying Coco Lopez coconut cream which is the Asian stuff there not a lot of people by here is 26% fat with no sugar on average person labeled on the internet egg yolks are 26% fat cream of coconut which is the Lopez is 13% fat and also 56 bricks mean very high in sugar coconut milk is 15 to 70% fats or something and what I did is I stand all this stuff into an Excel spreadsheet and then came

what's the numbers so if you did if you did 11 egg yolks 280 grams of coconut creme de Coco Lopez and 730 grams of coconut milk you come out with very similar numbers to regular ice cream in terms of fat and sugar but if you don't want to use coconut you could try using I mean it's hard with coconut milk is really good out of used peanut butter and ice cream to the partial substitution with some of it but remember when you move away from using any sort of dairy you're also going to have to not just replace the fat you're going to have to replace the dairy proteins cuz they're also functional so you going to have to move to something like a soy protein or soy protein isolate or something it's a high in protein that can provide some of the effect of the nonfat milk solids sorry I couldn't be more help on that but I'll try to think of some formulations have someone else sent some stuff back Skynyrd energy using coconut milk and coconut cream is that you don't have to use a blender because it's already been made into a nice texture for you but I got to get some non coconut cuz I'm a coconut stuff all the time I actually admit price

assassin people who don't want me to Dairy sometimes so I always have in my freezer some bass it's made from coconut milk and coconut cream and it doesn't really taste coconut if you put a whole boatload of chocolate into it I found okay to listen I'm going to get kicked off the air in a second but Alvin Schwartz you got a question about Savory Pop Rocks I don't have time to talk about it this this week but you can buy Savory pop-rock just blank Pop Rocks online I believe it Chef rubber will look it up for next time Jason Boland already wrote in about cook meat she says you always make sure he gets up to 800 Degrees plus what what residential Evan does that or did you hack ihackedit I put a I put two separate extra heating element in my oven that are controlled with an external PID controller and embedded in a refractory cement so I act like everything else ihackedit no residential Evan does that except for on the self-clean some people out there have hacked their self clean cycle but I'm not going to recommend you do that cuz I don't want you to burn your house down but it's definitely hacked and it wasn't residential

begin with it was a it was a Garland with a it's a gas-electric hybrid that I've tweaked out to do pizza okay dear Jack Joe and the rest is starch a question about broth Thinkin Ramen in particular would it be possible to make a bra fits on rendered lard instead of are in place of some of the bones then cooling the broth and removing the fat layer in this scenario all I care about is Flavor don't care about the clarity or any other cheese thank you okay if you like the flavor of large you can include it I do not think you're going to get enough enough collagen out of just the Lord without the skin to have the effect you want in the broth to get the mouth feel right right so if you happen to like the flavor of just like rendered lard then you can put it in there I'll tell you this though having done like pork skin cook-off for doing a chicharrones the smell of just pork skins cooking alone in water is not pleasant right side

are being a beaver skin much less Pleasant although I kind of like it's very woodsy but anyway to just be careful of that if you include skins then you're going to have enough stuff in there but you're not going to get any meaty flavor from you're just going to get that fat lard and skin flavor that yell at me flavor okay watching dinner party menu crisis making reverse certified mint julep to start but what app to follow some form of pig help do pork belly do pork belly to cook it low top press it after it's done let the air dry a little bit slow render the skin so it's crispy cut it a little slice of make some pretty nice so I was cut into cubes Everyone likes that are in 2 seconds listen I read this article in the New York Times magazine called the extraordinary science would take a drunk food by Michael Moss I was extremely disappointed at the way that article presented things and we're going to talk more about it in general is he the sky want to pull a surprise but this is not I don't think Pulitzer prize-winning work that's being done here I think it's very one-sided very biased

I also miss miss represents a lot of the actual science going on in cherry pits the science about what's going on with with salt and with sugar and with fat I think misrepresents kind of not necessarily the cause of why we're having so many health issues here but definitely provides a no Solutions and be put all the blame on marketing strategies of companies instead of on the larger issues that are going on and the talk more about it hopefully next time I'd like to get some comments in from people I also hope the Museum of food and drink and we haven't talked about it before details to follow I want to do a show where at the Whitney Museum where we are moderating and I want to get hardcore real scientist and food policy experts on the air in real reason debate not one-sided jump it's all either from an industry perspective or all either from an anti industry perspective I'm sick of the way the stuff is portrayed in the media I'm sick of the way the stuff

is portrayed in general and what we need is something like hard ball that you want political Hardball we need like this Chris Matthews we need something like that for what's going on in the in the food in food and it doesn't exist and hopefully we can do something like that here on this network details to follow cooking issues

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