Cooking Issues Transcript

Episode 100: The 100th Episode!

today's program has been brought to you by S Wallace Edwards & Sons 3rd Generation cure Masters producing the country's best dry cured and aged hams bacon and sausage for more information visit SRI you were listening to Heritage Radio Network broadcasting live from Bushwick Brooklyn do you like this program visit Heritage Radio Network. Org for thousands more

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Michael Harlan turkell fencing Heritage Radio Network. Org mr. job and so are the greenhouse tavern Cleveland Ohio happy anniversary as well as Aaron from the Heritage Radio Network development and like you are their inspiration and we're honored to have you in our humble little shipping container Dave and Elsia

is in fact a shipping didn't such like shut up and play the Prosecco

what's wrong with you right where you drinking all day. Tober fasting over there yeah she actually you were at Oktoberfest last week there in the shower I was flying back you were encountering turbulence over Nova Scotia as we were having our children

I can help you like half Mexican half Ukrainian I had to get area out of that crazy

OSHA's sobrino today there was a woman over the weekend 18 year old in England who is served liquid nitrogen at a bar in a glass I think that's what happened it was not totally in yet and she lost a good portion for some stomach it was taken out at the hospital because she either consumed actual liquid nitrogen or something it was so hyper Frozen with liquid nitrogen that it caused irreparable damage to the lining of your stomach now I've seen on this a lot of people ask me about it and the fact that matter is is it is exactly a kin to a cook taking a chicken McNugget out of a deep fryer with a ladle and serving the chicken McNuggets with the little full of deep fry oil clearly not a good thing that's a terrible tragedy this is happened but completely irresponsible practice and has

nothing at all to do with liquid nitrogen I've use liquid nitrogen daily for years and and dealt with customers we've had you know both the French culinary apocrine. Everyone knows we never ever ever ever serve actual liquid cryogens to people and we never serve a Foods or drinks that are so chilled if they could cause frostbite or any sort of damage on on consumption and it's actually not that difficult if your if your practitioner it's not that difficult to judge whether something is gotten that cold or not for instance if you are cocktail has become a rock-solid this sucker is too cold to deal with and may cause damage if you see liquid nitrogen floating around on the surface of your cocktail there are issues and you should not serve it it it it would be clear to any any you know well trained

practitioner of a liquid nitrogen use what to do and what not to do and it's horrible that this has happened but we hear all sorts of crazy things I've sewn set a BBC report saying that technology has no place in bars and in kitchens Buddies the knife is a piece of technology or was back in the day the blenders a piece of technology or was back in the day deep fryers are dangerous the trick is knowing what you're doing and having some common sense and respect for the safety of your customers your liquid nitrogen can be used for a bunch of gimmick BS in the bar or it can be used hopefully as we use it which is to good effect to to get the best freshest infusions for instance by doing liquid nitrogen modeling at the bar or by chilling glasses where is clearly technically the most Superior way to do it and have nothing to do with gimmickry so that's my little

hey I need a related question. At Wheaton from Ian Benz you saw the a demonstration we did it to Starships ICC and he's like how how do you get this liquid nitrogen first of all I would go ahead and read the safety the safety information that's on cooking issues block is formatted weirdly now we're working on it I know but the information is still there secondly you get it from a welding supply shop the cheapest way to get it is in units of 100 and 1680 or 240 l in large doors those doors cost $2,000 purchased them use for a thousand but that you can also rent one for $35 a month and we end up paying in those large quantities roughly $0.70 once everything said and done delivered at much much much much much much much much much much much cheaper than buying smaller quantities like 35 or 40 or 50 at a time where they really rake you over the coals for the for the you know facts of giving you a smaller amount to any welding supply shop you give him a $2,000 Deposit they drop off a do or do your safety thing

by the dumb hoes that they want to sell send you or sell you to get the liquid nitrogen. I'll just make something out of copper I have all the parts on the cooking issues website that's the positive one of a kind in all the world and I will leave you to be brilliant but happy anniversary

are you give Jack and Jill some prosecco or did you totally happen on


terrible terrible did not have our wonderful cover of vicious vicious vodka today and that is because it turns out the law sucks that right back cuz I love that cover right now we're going to look into tomorrow for fishing right. Get it crossed and I's dotted another dream with me like the right to use that stuff legit SF from the 40s is it possible it was run out and then no-one re-upped it is one of my fish is vodka cover I don't even want the original anymore I want to cover now

all right all right question for last week I did not answer from Joel Gargano regarding vacuum machines and cutting boards yojo from New Haven to get a New Haven Suite right and stop the sisters of the New Haven now at the arrowhead you don't yell. Like Newton in the recent US News crap on the crap on you unless you work for them out there in which case I love you ok need a Workhorse of a vacuum sealer for my kitchen I've narrowed it down to the ankle and boxer 52 which is a table top model made by hinkelman or the Samick S V 410 s double seal bar in evacuations plus but not necessary both these units have it but I would like a large chamber to perform aeration techniques like Iration of chocolate to feel like taking a fishtail would be good in it I also like the idea of the VAC Norm external kit on the Senate to see love Hotel pans of food rather than bagging it I hope things over a few days normally in bags and would save a cost for sure what do you think I'll take your opinion on best banks

Thunder six grand in terms of size and durability feel free to give me what you'd buy eyelash leak any kind of non wood cutting boards I'm sick of the standard cheapy plastic guys and Jack play more Bluto Bluto Bluto stuff right anyway here's the thing for those who don't know what the hell just happened in terms of the question let me explain to you or talk about chamber vacuum machines things that let you do sous-vide in a kitchen their realtor expensive the real ones start at around two grand and go up to like 6 when you're stealing something in a professional kitchen and you doing a lot of packages what's very important is your ability to not spend all of your time at the vacuum machine Sony has a large suvee program tends to have a bottleneck production bottleneck at the vacuum machine wife speak

do you have to put a bag in and they're running a cycle in the cycle takes longer than you think and you usually want a bad things Portion by portion if you're going to serve them Fortune by Fortune which means you have to run a bunch of cycles and see you sitting there for sometimes a long long time to snatch how long will be back in that time that we did those cookies for the troops what you want to make sure is to spend the extra couple hundred bucks to get to different seal bars in the machine because it's going to chop your bagging time in half when you're doing a large thing so when companies use you say when they say dual seal what they what they mean actually isn't that there are two cereal bars they mean that there's two seals on the seal bar itself which is also important because you don't want the bags to leak I recommend getting seal bar to seal bars each one with a double sealed and have a 1 wide normal seal and the other BS everseal it's going to cut off the Flappy parts of the

cuz I detest having those Flappy bag Parts all over me but I hate that says she hates it bags in general and she hates anything Flappy she did Flappy things hates like for instance you know about weird fungal growths on leave any sort of flappy leafy thing she hates you look for chamber size as you state you have to just go look at I don't have personal experience with the gentleman the Samick I looked at and this is no offense of Senate people if you're listening they are wildly overpriced Samick is wildly overpriced in fact I asked their rep I said hey Samick rep I don't remember his name or the European dude I was like house, your machine is so much more expensive than the comparable machine from somebody else and it wasn't like this one will cook your breakfast for you or something like that I didn't really understand why the Samick cost so much more that time I don't know if it still cost more or whether they bought

prices in line with a Mini pack and multivac so that we are the ones that the three companies I have the most experience with our Koch which is the one you buy if you want to buy an American product Koch and they're they're fine I don't like the old Codge manual one's very much I use that one at Soundbar but it's what they have multivac which was the market leader and probably still is in the US and they for a long time had kind of though the best programming out there and they had such a huge chunk of the market that they didn't do a lot of work to try and maintain Chef Like Love from Chef they didn't really care about it that much in fact they're smaller machines have a subpar chamber size that said their programming is pretty good in there pretty Robo many pack is work a lot on their programming recently affected if they have a lot of good program in the new in the problem is is that sometimes it's a little too complicated like you remember that machine was like what the hell how do you make it go right but I think there are they work on that and Mini pack is has very very good chamber size

for what they do now the thing that you asked about the the the VAC Norms rights first of all in everywhere but the u.s. what we call the hotel pan in Europe they call a gastronorm pan right so I don't know why we call him Hotel pans they call and gas for non-payment now regular or u.s. hotel pan if you would have sucked a vacuum on believe me I've tried this if you suck a vacuum on it will crush crush and so it's useless to use for vacuum sealing so Samick has made or had made for them if you look at it looks like a little ziggurat it's a hotel pan with like Steps in it and the wall of the stainless is much thicker than a standard hotel pan and they also make like a like a like a lexan lid for it with a seal on it so you can suck a vacuum on the hotel pan itself on this back nor this heavy-duty a hotel pan and these systems are great here is the secret

the system itself has nothing to do with sennik right so you can and I've asked Cambro I've asked all the people who make these things every year when I'm at the trade shows your nose when does matter so I go to the trade show and I'm like Hey listen have you why don't you make why don't you make a hotel pan here in the US that can I have a vacuum applied to it and they always look at me like I'm some sort of an idiot like I'm a moron Okemos Tasha correct fair but I happen to be right on this one and no one knows what why it hasn't it hasn't been done but you can just buy the VAC Norms which are absurdly expensive also from Samick the lid and the hose and stick it over almost any other vacuum machine company. So long as you can get to the hole where the air comes in and out of the vacuum chamber so I don't know in a Mini pack that hole is exposed which sucks most of the time because

music key like when air comes back in it can blow stuff all over the inside of the chamber but it can be useful for something like this so don't think that just because you want a vac Norm that you have to go with Sam X machine right I encourage you to go to places that have these look at them play with them Anchorman is that the one that Miracle recommend I don't remember he recommended a German brand starts with an h and I can't remember it German or Austrian or someone who speaks German you know what I mean and I think it was Hangul man and he loved it because of the programming but I don't have any personal experience on it I hope this is a reasonable response now on cutting boards when you say that you're sick of the standard cheapy plastic guys if you're referring to the very hard polyethylene guys that come in different color I hate those I hate cutting on them I hate looking at them I hate touching them I hate the way that they spin around on my on my service is even if I put down the wet paper towel by the way I was worried about sleeping in their boards to put the wet paper towel time is everyone not know that trick

take a little wet towel put it on the on your counter not so wet so it's a slip and slide put the board on top of the board stays if you whatever I'm just saying do that because I'm drinking Prosecco at 12 right now there's there's there's two basic higher-end but made of plastic as you specified you didn't want a non-wood cutting board I actually love would I love wood and usually I scrub them down with assault at the end of the night and I'm not worried about others of those studies that show that you're not going to get sick from using would but if you can't because you're a Pro Kitchen use would hear the two ones that I've come across the one that everyone seemed to use that I know is a product called Sani Tuff made by Tech Noir Apex

and they won't say what it is I'll just say it's rubber but they won't I looked for about 45 minutes to try and find a composition of the rubber like what kind of rubber it is but I could not find it anywhere and the boards themselves are hideously ugly and crazy heavy but they they work they were quite well I don't feel that they hurt my knives at all to do discolor they can be sanded which is nice I see you to take a pill saying it to him and send him down when they go but take the thicker ones of those getting really really really really heavy they also if you overheat them will warp and if you put them on accidentally on a burner you'll get Scorch marks will you put on the burner but most Borgia like that the other alternative is material called high soft which is polyvinyl acetate PVA IPA the same stuff they make Elmer's glue is made out of and you can buy boards like this and some it's a Japanese using called high so if you can get him at Corrin and places like that they are very expensive they

aren't as heavy as I think me I've never have side by side of my memories remember that when we did all that you could you may test on the fish with the corner and lent us at Giant cutting board for Star chefs remember that anyway my memory of that giant cutting board is that it didn't it didn't weigh as much as the Sani Tuff boards but they are some pricey business they're very nice and they felt soft on the on the knives and they also supposedly David they were nice texture there non slip and they they feel good that felt good to cut on so I like it a lot of the sushi sushi folks use that so I hope that helps Chicago online John from Chicago you're on the air temperature for insurance and cooling it down I guess I just don't know that much about what's what's okay to do in terms of cooling stuff down and then just hearing the exterior and comes up

safety standpoint again everything depends on on what you're doing if you're saying low temperature for insurance we just cooking the product all the way through to the minimum temperature and then afterward doing an actual full-on cook step on it to get a nice exterior and they cooking this way for insurance tends to produce things that taste more like their classical counterparts but have a lot of the benefits of a low temperature cooking okay so everything depends and also depends on how much of a of a kind of a nice crust and cooking different on the crust you want does that make sense so mean if you cook a roast all the way through so that it's pasteurized if you're going to cook that long to pasteurize whole thing then you could chill it down and then you could chew it all the way down to fridge Temp and then it's it's it's done so you can let it come up to you know

room temp before you do your finish sear and then throw it in a hot oven and you'll be fine you know what I mean but a lot depends on what you're going to do most of the time we don't do a full cool down on a large item most of the time we do a a partial cool down or you know like you could soak it for a while at a lower temperature so French names Dave Chang with it with his chicken he he keeps his chicken at 58 degrees and then does a traditional cook for pride and other traditional cook-off in the fryer from 58th and finds that he can get the nice cross without overcooking it if he's holding it at that at that temperature took a lot depends on exactly what you're doing but from a safety standpoint a lot a lot depends on whether the project in pasteurized or not that make sense

yeah so let's say 4:57 for 45 minutes to some extent so that I can so that I can cook and crisp the skin right okay so that's a good specific 57 for 45 minutes is actually enough to pasteurize okay look

I feel totally comfortable with duck breast at 57 for 45 minutes because duck breasts are fairly thin they come to the temperature pretty quickly there's no food code on on Earth it allows you because they consider duck to be poultry and so you think normally want you to hit the higher poultry numbers which doesn't really make a lot of sense but it is what it is but an actual safety standpoint I think you're fine what I do usually is a do 50/50 745 and I put them in the in the fridge let him cool down and then when it's time to sear them off I just do a higher heat than that you know why just focus the heat directly on the skin and I'll worry about the center of it and and they come out they come out great That's a classic use of low temperature for insurance so I mean I would just chill them down in the fridge you can hold them you know as you would any other cook product

follow up cuz I never imagined getting stuff like a sous vide set up what do you think is the next big thing for a home kitchen and it won't be like that the invention down the road that you are the phone oh well oh by the way to go back please someone cuz I don't have it in front of me double check before you say it's a hundred percent safe on patch relation what the thermal death curves are of salmonella with cuz after they're going to knock you for about you I would look at all that bacteria of Interest how they fare over 45 minutes you might need to stretch it to an hour or an hour and 10 minutes depending on how big your duck breast in how long you think the internal take to go to temperature just a safety note to look at it I have it on the Block somewhere just have to go find it I don't have it in my head OK the next the next big thing

I would say I wanted to be the centrifuge that there's not there's none out there yet that is fantastic four most people at home I'm working on it you know what I mean I think look at took us 10 years for the first circulator under five hundred bucks to hit the market and now we're there you know now now we have circulators for 350 and once you hit the 3:50 Mark once you're below 500 give me a jump into a whole new Planet of what possible that you can use for Cheese's and four units during sausage with the me the smaller the thing that the more they're move by individual batches you know what I mean and the less you get the effect of a kind of the stable micro you know micro Flora and Fauna of of a

I'm a steady big during room but he made people sell kids now actually to go to Auburn instruments you can go to that I've never purchased one from them but they they sell kit so you can control the humidity in the temperature so you can turn any refrigerator or whatever into a curing chamber be a maybe the one that's marketed more directly less less DIY and we're marking it directly and then I'll hang out. If you're looking to increase the flavor of a Brazzers to what are some good tips to keep in mind do your initial Brown properly get a lot of extra I eat I usually start with a really really flavorful stock at you know as my base boy look like do some pre-production on that start with with the with the wind basically you know bring yum sauce thing and then use the right vegetable mix and pre Brown your meat before you go that's that's that's typically what we do

any typical other ingredient add-ons that they can kind of give you a boost oxtail but you know that's if that's if you have money to light on fire

celebrate Jesus


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today's program has been brought to buy s Wallace Edwards & Sons Edward surryano hams are aged to Perfection for no less than 400 Days and hickory-smoked to achieve a deep mahogany color Edwards name is well-known for its world-class aged and cured meats their exclusive curing aging recipe produces a unique flavor profile that enhances the quality characteristics of Berkshire pork Optimum amounts of pure white fat marbling contribute to a flavor that's a delicate perfect balance between sweet and salty two more information visit www. Siri her know that I characterized as well as Edwards hams as sweet or not sugary sweet

here's the thing right when people eating American country has what they do it in Old School the American way of eating country hams years ago and it's forever it's because we inherited our ham eating culture from the from the Brits right is that you take your cured ham and you cook them afterwards and when you cook an American country ham you turn it into a Salt Lick so everyone's idea of American hands being too salty comes from this fact that they're horribly overcooked and soon as you overcook it it's it it really is horribly horribly salty the other problem is Americans think that ham should come in six six slices and this is not because we're used to eating City hands and sitting hands you can eat and big thick slices because they're pumped full of water and they're big and they're spongy rights where's American country and was never intended to be eating this way it was intended to be eaten in in thin pieces small things as a seasoning over a long. Of time hence the old joke what's the definition of a turn

a couple of Virginia ham because they can eat that thing forever right that's a good way to preserve me and have it go so people think that American ham is too salty just aren't eating it right you don't agree with me Jack Soriano thinly sliced and then kind of chunks of it and it just means it is saltier than the you know European counterparts that were used to like Prosciutto de Parma things like this but American ham is its own saying it is what it is which is why and I'll say it again even though I probably said 10 times on the show Sam Edwards rest well as Edwards even though I like him and I love his hand his your The Wigwam and the one that they do for with Heritage Meats the British want to do is delicious I wish you wouldn't call it suriano I wish you wouldn't reference a European ham at all because his family has been curing for hundreds of years and you know in in that area of Virginia and it's a product unique to itself and shouldn't be compared anything else

delicious product I love it you know I hate the fact that is compared to a European product Jax has nothing to say about this because of the sponsor now look whatever I like the product is a good product and I'm going to throw in my two cents in don't get the country ham at Waffle House okay that's fair for many many years it was seen as a commodity product and so country ham producers over the decades after World War II made a cheaper and cheaper product because it was seeing that cost was the driver and they kept on losing their Market to City Hall and people eating more and more of the spongy City hand it's a country has a really dying out in to try and stay ahead people would try to make it cheaper and cheaper make it cost less and less push the Cure time shorter and I know a few people stayed around and made kept on making the product the away and we're really keeping National national food cultural tradition alive an important one I think

that's why years ago you know actually when we first started this first started the neon Museum of food and drink one of the first things I focused on was American country ham and how we're eating it wrong and how a modern way to consume it is to eat it the same way we eat prosciutto what you're seeing now a lot of places like like sambar who has a hand program now but years ago people weren't doing this with American country ham and I think that's what did the new way of eating at Wendy's hamburgers are they not realize you know it didn't answer my happiest when Colonel Newsom it that they Sam Edwards from s Wallace Edward or realizing that it's the kind of this new consumption mode is is another good good news for 4. Country hams are all over the country I don't know whatever hello cooking she's bossy I'm going to Hawaii over Thanksgiving and want to taste some yummy tropical fruit is there a brogdale equivalent in Hawaii Aiea tasting Farm if not which route should I be seeking out and where

mostly being quiet now listen Brian I'm sorry to say I've never been to Hawaii in my my whole life although my wife was born there is one of the places I wanted to give them their stuff now be nice. I like I hate this many times I hate Tropical Paradise except for the fruit right and so like I'd love to go to Hawaii and and try the fruit but unfortunately I don't have any real recognition cuz I haven't been there what I would do is I would go to the Hawaii Hawaii Tropical Fruit Growers website and try to get in contact with them and see if there's anyone they know there's a really good website to have you as well not good from a design standpoint not that we can talk with our thing is always broken but she has like he or she I don't know why I said she don't really know who it is but they have like this weird space staying in their webs like you don't like websites have like that weird spacing With The Stars in the Milky Way behind us and makes it hard to read and all the writings in big bold yellow stuff

websites like that but aside from that great information grape varieties of fruit and also awesome awesome link some of the best links on tropical fruit that you can get on the internet and it's www. Fruit and they have nursery and they sell fruit unfortunately they're closed from October till December 15th so you're out of luck for Thanksgiving visiting those guys but try to contact me people and find out where to go I'm sorry that I don't have any kind of a better information mustaches like yeah you're useless pretty much right right Brazil hello Jack Jones. Congratulations on your magic I don't like this. Unfortunately later on in the show we have something it's a hundred degrees Celsius

I will say what happened thank you very much for all the great ideas inspiration and good last keep up the outstanding work thank you very much I've got a few questions about pectinex which is an enzyme that breaks down pectins we use pectin X Ultra sp-l from Noble times I've got a few questions about Technics for Dave I'm not too long ago I got some packing extra modernist Pantry will used to be a sponsor of our show is Bentley. Com but haven't had much time to play with it we tried as a matter of feeling as described on cooking issues blog but the results weren't great the stuff didn't feel right and lines oxidized very quickly I can't recall the concentration for you is right now but we sealed the fruit with quite a few Cuts in the skin and put the solution inside a jar under vacuum the drivers put in a water bath at 40 degrees Celsius to activate the end time for quite a long time nothing on Markley really happened before the end of several hours but by then the flavor of the fruit was gone we did lemons limes tangerines and kumquats what other cool tricks do you recommend for us to try with a SPL that don't require a centrifuge

okay lines aren't I've never had any good luck with Lyme's what you want to do I want to see what you said here I wouldn't make Cuts in the skin unless the unless the actual enzyme is in direct contact with the white part with the Albedo of the fruit you're not going to get a very good result so we're working with it what you want the peel we peel the fruit in have nicely cut pills and then bag those in vacuum bag them in a vacuum with with the enzyme right then after that stone the white will be kind of gelatinous And discussing the Sasha won't touch it and that we take a toothbrush and we run it with the toothbrush under running water and all of the Albedo can be kind of wiped away right that's what you do with the peels lime peel does not work very well just telling you right now oranges work well pomelo works well with grapefruit works well lemons work okay right now for the fruit itself the best possible thing to do is to break a Super Bowl date the actual fruit average

into at least haves and possibly quarters and then baguette so that the actual enzyme can get to the membrane in between in between the fruit and that's when you can get the really good near destruction from the enzymes very difficult for the enzyme to pierce into the center of the food just does not work that way you have to kind of breaking apart other tricks to do with SPL I know you're doing a bar but if you want to do french fries I use SPL for all of our french fry needs right but I can't you can also do Claire clarification and your clarification isn't working very well rent because you're using a puree you're in Brazil you're getting amazing. So you don't have a cent a few fine but I got clarification very difficult for you to do on very thick items things like soursop AKA guanabana so what you want to do is treat the puree with SPL right let the SPL sit for a long time it's going to liquify the puree and make it a law

more liquidy by breaking down the pectin and then your yield when you're doing agar clarification is going to go way up so even if you're doing standard agar clarification because you don't have a centrifuge you can use the SPL to help benefit your clarification results of raw okay for me to try and we still have time you'll notice that stars a day is just run away from us I like you know you have a day and then like you wake up and then the day is gone crazy right okay so now I'm sorry I haven't tried it read from zymurgy rights in with the problem on lamb hey Dave this is second time I've done lamb shanks with sous vide at 62° C for a round 48 hours with a half a percent salt added to eat shank the first time they came out fantastic with no issues while this while this is only the second time for the shanks I've been doing suvi for almost 3 years and I've never encountered what happened to these ones I was in Whole Foods they were selling Icelandic language did you know they made land Iceland

New Zealand Iceland from Financial collapse from your from you know from power from what's the what's a geothermal power all that damn I did not know makes sense though I put them in a bath with a half an hour all the bags begin to bloat and Float which I'm going to use that from now on red I'm using bloating float that's my new term for that bloat and Float like that that tell you that like I'm never going to do this I'm talking to Jeremiah bullfrog one of our friends from Miami and what we need to do is start a website where it's kind of like I don't like Craigslist or something but it's just a list of good band names that we're never going to use and then when people use them they just check it off and then you know it's used already you know so it's just like a huge list of band names are you could use it for whatever but mostly it's band names and then like weed

we just added to the list and it sounds like plug plug thanks and they check it off your name on the list and show them down for about an hour and put them in New Bag these to begin to bloat and Float replace the screen on him and waited them down in the back the only thing I can come up with is it the shanks for off-gassing or something they were not sitting around in the meat case they came right out of a sealed box and appear to be as fresh as possible with no off around the internos Icelandic people never know what they've added to it just kidding I just turned them and the bags are not as bloated before I'm still wondering what's happened by the time your show airs the shank will be done and I will follow up with an additional email to comment on their taste

which has already happened I appreciate your passing got away with the lamb shanks came out fine for the most part all the shanks came out of the bath indicated that they were still under a vacuum I still never encounter this type of initial bloating in the back so I need assistance with a be appreciated red okay what's interesting about this problem is that your bloat happen in the first 45 minutes usually a bad blow dry a bacterial bloat happens after several hours in the reason for bacterial bloat is if you put a bunch of bags together and you haven't you know pasteurize the outside of those bags vs. bacteria in it and because the bags are jammed together it can take hours for the surface temperature in those bags that are cluster too tightly to get up to temperature to wear the killing bacteria and you get lactic acid bacteria usually growing in those bags and they inflate and they pop up and when you cut them up and they smell awful like blue cheese mix with sauerkraut mixed with death row horrible right you smell those right side yeah horrible which is why I typically if you don't know why bag is bloated you probably

we shouldn't eat it now if a bag bloat immediately by eat when within 45 minutes or so of putting it in your dealing with most probably not a bacterial problem your most probably dealing with a thermal expansion and release of are now where is this most likely coming from think about it it's two places I can come from one the bones in your land and your lamb shank are Hollow and contained air if you want a bag something with bones like lamb shanks you going to want to suck a serious vacuum on it so if your product wasn't that cold when it went to the vacuum chamber and you weren't able to suck a hardcore vacuum for a long time on that bone there's going to be trapped air inside of that phone and then when you vacuum it that it was talking with the arrows going to be still there when you heat it the air is going to expand out of the bone and pop up your back which happens all the time when you when you do things with bones and back which is why when you have a bone in the bag and you want to do cookie

you have to suck a serious serious vacuum on it a lot x a lot longer than you would in a normal kind of vacuum sealing scenario the so that's no keep it cold and suck a good vacuum on it the problem is if you can do that in some like a chicken bone the the Red Cross on the inside of the bone gets sucked out and goes along the meeting that never know turns on red and so you get an unappetizing basically inedible from those people because visually they can't get past it red mark call persistent pinking around the outside of the meat so the other problem is is perhaps you had veg in with your lamb shanks right and the veg wasn't fully cooked not only there's two things one vegetables aren't going to cook at 62 degrees Celsius even if you left them in there for weeks and carrots going to stay crunchy for the entire time but uncooked vegetables have a lot of air in them and if you don't suck a long vacuum or that trap are inside of those uncooked vegetables will also come out when you're cooking and cause the back to bloat my guess is 90% of 90% certain that that is the reason this has happened meaning

good answer. Actually take a break what do not give a rat's behind about what causes for low temperature ribs and while the flavor was amazing I guess we're a little freaked out by the unrendered fat is there any way to do a combination of high and low temperature cooking to get the best of both worlds I was looking at picking up a cvap see that big is a minute for my kitchen I noticed that sells both cold and serve drawers both are described as having the same theory of operation what's really the difference between the two thanks for all the great information Tom Fisher now see that is a holding oven almost like an alto shaam but it has a bain-marie in the bottom in a bain-marie heats water to a very accurate temperature inside the whole notion to cvap is that they can control the difference in temperature between the water bath and the air temperature and therefore

set the humidity inside of the oven until I properly setting that you can keep all in your any kind of food you want at exactly the right condition was invented for holding a fried chicken for it was invented by Winston from Winston Industries for Colonel Sanders from Kentucky Fried Chicken and so you can keep crunchy things in it by saying the humidity level right you can keep you know you can keep moist things in it and low temperature cooking we typically sent to 100% humidity and they're fairly accurate is why we do it the difference between the cook and hold and the whatever the other one is called is it they cook and hold one's versus the holding serve ones I have more power and so they're meant to bring the temperature of a food item up cook it and let it go where as the holding serve ones have less power and they're not designed to do the actual cooking now with low temperature cooking their adequate right if you're actually going to try to you know mimic some of the effects of a Combi oven by doing roasting then you need

extra power from a cook and hold hope that helps I don't know what the cost difference is cuz I've never had to ride to research to cost him soon okay that's good afternoon to stosha Dave Jack and Joe have a long time listener the podcast I'm in London still work commute prevents me from listening line we visit the old episodes of eagerly it forward to a new show each week enjoyment Factor aside the show is improve the quality of the food I cook at home and introduce me to some great working practices products and techniques that's nice that's very gratifying that's my favorite thing to hear that you are the reason why you know what to ask a question regarding a recent eBay purchase I have acquired a grant s bb6 boiling bath for no reason other than it was going to for a bargain price of 30 lb 50. Can you believe that 30 pounds is fifty bucks I wasn't even the other like very recently and you know everything is the same price tag there but it's in pounds crazy crazy it's like you know

worst 20 c r 469 Coburg Road, he used to come here and he was like Monopoly money and you would like laughing my face and like light money in front of me because our money was so worthless compared to their break my way there's nothing I thought there might be a application for which they Grant boiling bath is useful I was hoping that may be useful in its current working state or that I may be able to recalibrate the unit to a lower fix temperature for have to use it as a water bath in the preparation of vegetables freeing up a separate circulator for the preparation of the protein at a lower temperature how do you make my chances of being able to hack the unit to do this reliably if this is unlikely to produce a successful outcome can you think of a use for a water bath at a fixed hundred degrees C temperature

secondly what would you recommend as good practice for cleaning of lab equipment purchase from eBay this unit is new but all the same I would like to clean it just in case plus I'm currently betting on a number of other units from laboratory sales and I'm unsure what you say may have had in the previous lies I know that you have covered cleaning on previous shows it was hoping there a 30-second recap may be possible keep up the good work my girlfriend and I are coming are looking forward to visiting Booker and Dax bar next year we are in New York for food and drink tour time to coincide with the first New York Formula 1 race thanks Michael Sanders okay great question with a question so I looked up your boiling bath and fortunately the boiling bath doesn't work on a thermostat because it's literally boiling to the knob on the front of your of your boiling bath just all it does is it modifies how much power is being introduced to the way you're supposed to use this thing is you fill it up with water you turn it on a crank it and then when it starts boiling it turn it down until you have just maintaining a boil so you're not using extra energy cool thing about your unit is that it has a little

hose that you can attach to it to add water to it without having to go do you know anyting else and it has a drain so these are two very very useful things so it's 6 so it would make a good probably probably me to make a jury-rigged pasta cooker out of it because it's boiling and it's got a drain so you can probably use that drain to get the starch off the top of the deposit and keep it going would also be great for vegetables even at a hundred degrees C because you're not going to have a lot of things touching the bag that can cause it to break so probably good for a sous-vide vegetables at that temperature if you want to treat her the Water by the problem is if you can do a lot of low temperature work with it at only 6 L it doesn't have that large capacity and so you're going to have some issues with it if you're trying to do large amounts of cooking yet that said is 6 liters is big enough and you really want to turn it to a second circulator all you need to do is buy any one of the PID rice cooker conversions that use a

thermocouple and used plug-in instead of plugging this supper into the wall plug it into the PID rice cooker converter put the step that you know the temperature probe in and now you have a thermostatically controlled water bath to bypass the controls on it entirely or is it that these water bass that you have are unstirred and so if you want the actual you know total even temperature from top to bottom you have to throw an aquarium pump for a bubbler in there that pushing Sumerian to move the water around none of it's complicated it's all easily done it's just a question how much you want to do I would love to have a you know something that could boil that's not on a fire if I'm doing vegetables because I don't really see a lot of difference in cooking a vegetable at 85 C or a hundred see the you know that the main difference is is difficult on a stove to do vegetables at a hundred and always make sure there's no flame because he not working this way there's no flame it's going to touch the side of my bag right and to always make sure that you're going to have the right level of water in there so if you have this cool water and put that makes it

level is always right and there's no flame touching the side where the bag is could be very useful for doing things like vege-way thinks us what we're supposed to go to 45 so so what so buttons I'm not even done with this question yet I will pay for the record for everyone on the air I have a telephone call is concerned with because it's possible that I'm going to be on air with her Idol Hoda and she wants a good 10 minutes of me having mellow time to think about what I'm going to say to hold his producer and you have to say goodbye and have to leave to call the entire today and for like the next hour and a half anyway so I'm going to finish this question so about cleaning equipment you want to make sure it depends on what the equipment is going to be used for anything that might have touched a biological agent like a centrifuge you want to make sure that you treat it with a very hardcore bleach and then after you hardcore

bleach it really hard for bleaching I try to pressure cook the stuff to sterilize it and then I treated with bleach again equipment is going to have inorganic chemicals touching it like rotovap seems like this it might be a problem you want to add up your we bought some hardcore glass cleaner come with extra clothes that's alconex Lovenox alconex cleaner that she just ripped a bunch of stuff off and just do you have to rinse it like a million times to get the stuff he's really want to make sure you get everything off because it could be some really really really really nasty business things that can't be there certain things that like can't really be fixed that well things that might absorb different different chemicals that rubber stuff that sometimes with those you're better off totally replacing them that said you know I always err on the side of a over cleaning and making sure that everything is eaten or melted off if you have metal you can do alternate you can bleach and then don't do this to aluminum but if you can do bleach and then you could do oven cleaner because oven cleaner is going to eat any protein a proteinaceous

stuff that's out called on it so I just recommend going really hard core on that okay and one last question in on the on the Twitter from from Clash I cook new shoes does adding oxidized oil to non-oxidized oil cause the non-oxidized oil to oxidize faster than it would alone or is it linear now I never really stupid lie I never really thought about this problem before but it makes sense that that what you're saying is is right however I know and I said unless we showed you make what prompted this that the way that you do this professionally and it continues frying is to achieve a certain level of oxidation keep it constant by constantly adding fresh oil to it and you reach kind of steady state where the oil stays the same things like potatoes absorb the exact amount of what they need and everything goes in a steady-state but I don't know Sears what you know I know that what affects oxidation rate and oil is

oxygen and the presence of metallic ion that's why you don't salt things for instance before you put them in oil typically because it's going to increase the rate at which oil breaks down not really important if you're not going to use the oil for a long time or if your pan-frying but in trying it can be quite important but I recommend that you read a Eagan press go online you can get downloadable PDF of their edible fats and oils book is very short it's very good and I go back in and read it read it quite a bit and here's a quick paragraph from them on Flavour Noir flavor end loader organoleptic evaluation empirical test and there's no substitute for an experience analyst experience and I was going to be you and the way that I test my wheels constantly to see whether or not there any good if I get bread regular white bread totally neutral white bread why cuz it pours it soaks up oil keep you up and then put the bread in and Fry off the bread alone but don't need a fright long you don't want it to brown right now that pull it out and taste that bread if that bread tastes good with that bread

is neutral then you're good to go and if it doesn't that oil is no good and that's literally the test that I run whenever I'm wondering whether my wheels On The Edge or not and it's really very very sensitive your power is very sad to Vince what you should follow if you want a more scientific explanation go to this go to this paper it's available free on the web it's called mechanism and factors for edible oil oxidation by Unico e and David Beeman Unico is a rough day and a half

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